About this podcast episode…

VIDEO PRODUCTION SPECIALIST KIRTH NOEL

This time we're following Kirth Noel's journey from starting photography as a hobby to turning it into a freelance business. 

Initially worked doing side gigs to fund his passion for photography (all that equipment soon adds up). Then as he became a father, Kirth transitioned to baby and maternity photography - delving into video production to help promote it.

We hear how Kirth switched his niche again, following his interests whilst being very aware of what might work as a business. His freelancing shift to corporate videography, the strategic investments in equipment, and adapting to COVID-19 by focusing on product commercials. 

In the past year he's gone from a home studio with little risk, to working from a big rented studio where he can set up as a robotic video specialist focussing on 'visual engineering'. 

Using his experience as as an engineer on London's trains to tinker, experiment and solve problems that create incredibly inventive, specialised videos. All the time sharing his behind the scenes process to show what's possible, just as he did with the maternity photography years before.

Kirth discusses his continuous learning, relationship-building within the industry & local area, and marketing strategies, including developing his presence on LinkedIn and plans for live events.

There's a lot to Kirth's freelancing story for us all to take away, whether you're a videographer or not. Enjoy!

Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.

More from KIRTH NOEL

Kirth’s website
Kirth on Instagram
Kirth on LinkedIn
Kirth on YouTube

More from Steve Folland

Steve on Instagram
Steve’s freelance site
Being Freelance Community
Steve’s course for new freelancers
The Doing It For The Kids podcast

Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Video Production Specialist Kirth Noel

Steve Folland: How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?

Kirth Noel: So I started photography as a hobby, really. Ended up getting my first camera, you know? First point and shoot camera. And I was like taking pictures of everything that you can think of, right? You know, you get to change the lens and you get to have a little bit of a shallow depth of field. Started to explore it a little bit more. Got into some portrait photography, joined some photography clubs and started to enjoy it. Eventually I thought, you know what, I kind of like this. What if, what if I did kind of make some money back? Cause at this time you wanted to buy a new lens.

You wanted to buy flashes. You wanted to buy all these extra bit of equipment and like, you know, where you getting the money from to do that? So like, let's make a little bit of money on the side and that will facilitate it. You know, any new equipment purchases, et cetera. So, yeah, that is kind of how I started that journey of making money by doing photography.

And I suppose that's kind of where the freelance journey started.

Steve Folland: So it started in order to feed your lens habit.

Kirth Noel: Yeah, my, my, my gear habit, yeah,

Steve Folland: To put things in perspective. When, when would that have been?

Kirth Noel: This was maybe 10, 11 years ago, there was no rush, there was no pressure, I was doing it on the side, in that respect, it was easy enough for it to remain a passion and a hobby, as opposed to being looked at as work, as a job, you know, the kind of pressures that come with that.

Steve Folland: So how were you finding those clients? Who were these first clients of yours?

Kirth Noel: Did a lot of test shoots for, with like, like models for their portfolios, portrait portfolios and that kind of thing. And I would have one or two clients from there. I was just finding my way. I thought, okay, if I'm going to approach this from a business point of view, maybe I should select a particular niche and then I can become the best in this niche.

You know what I'm saying? So yeah, anyway, when it got to that point, it wasn't too long after my son was born. And then I thought, you know what? How about we do some baby and maternity as that niche. And that's kind of where the business side like really, really started. So kind of formulated a business, a brand around baby and maternity.

So doing that for a while, for a couple of years, and then I started doing video. As a way of marketing that photography business, so started doing promotional videos, you know what I mean? Set up behind the scenes, outcomes, that kind of stuff. So I started dabbling in video.

Steve Folland: Did you have a business name?

Kirth Noel: Newborns By KN Photography. I set up a business well, you know, on company's house and that was KN. It's my initials Photography, right? So that was the overarching business. And then the brand was Newborns by KN Photography. So I was running that alongside my partner as well.

And so she would look, because it's, you know, we're dealing with pregnant women and that kind of stuff. And in terms of the wardrobe, in terms of the setup. So that was, she was there to add that element to it. I added the technical photography aspect of it. And she kind of looked after the other side.

Steve Folland: And so you start creating video behind the scenes to promote that, and where were you sharing that?

Kirth Noel: So I would share that on social media. It was like more Facebook oriented at the time, kind of showing people and if a potential client, then I can send that directly or send a link to that video so they can kind of see, you know, so it's painting the picture of what you can expect.

Steve Folland: And so, I assume you found that work, as in that worked for you, creating that kind of content?

Kirth Noel: Yeah, it did. But the thing is, was now I was starting to do video and I was starting to dabble in this, in this space and I started to enjoy it a lot, right? And I thought, well, okay, cool. This, this is interesting. You know, and I kept doing more and more of it, more and more of it.

And the inventory again started growing. It got out of hand on the other side, because then now it's a different kettle of fish when it comes to video. With photography, you can get away with a few flashes and you know, a camera and you're good, right?

With video, it takes a lot more. Continuous lighting, talking about, you know, different cameras, different lenses. So yeah, so I started to build up that sort of inventory and started to get into video at that point.

Steve Folland: Did people start to ask you for video work instead of photography?

Kirth Noel: Not until I started to present it and showcase it behind the scenes. I would do tests to shoot. So I would do that kind of thing and, you know, sort of build up and then it started to kind of showcase that. And then, yeah, people started asking for, for that. That kind of heralded the end of Newborns by KM Photography.

We were now Kirth Noel Creative Media. So that was, that was the next 'trading as"

Steve Folland: But presumably the audience that you'd found of new parents wasn't now who you gonna aim to get work from?

Kirth Noel: No, it's, it's more for luxury, right? To have that, that type of photography done. You know, if you had to have, let's say, headshots for your business or for your company, it's kind of a must-haves if you had to choose between, you know, maternity photo shoot and something else for it, you know, so it was more of a luxury space.

So it was a bit of a hard, hard sell. So my thought process was I, if as a consumer, if I, I couldn't afford to book a holiday, you know, I just won't go on the holiday and, and everything will be fine still -as a business owner. If I didn't have a promotional way to promote my, my product or my services.

I'm probably going to go out of business - it's a real important thing for me to have. There's my thought process about the whole transition and towards selling for businesses. Or providing services for a business as opposed to a, you know, a consumer, like an end user. So yeah, that, that was kind of my thought process as I transitioned into the video world.

So I was now approaching corporate companies or doing corporate work for their in house communications for, you know, promoting their services and their businesses. So that's kind of where that idea started as I transitioned into video.

Steve Folland: When you say you're approaching corporates like literally cold outreach or like, how, how are you getting those clients?

Kirth Noel: So yeah, I started doing in person networking. I ended up at a BNI in one of those groups, and I met a couple of people who then introduced me to an agency, and so I started working with the agency. So I went in and sort of had a chat with them, told them what I did, what my aspirations were.

And so it was like, okay, you know, we'll give you a try, we'll give you a chance. And yeah, I started doing the video part of the briefs that they will get from their clients. So if they had video work to be done, then they would, you know, call me up and I would do that part of it for them.

Steve Folland: Amazing. And so that company was local to you.

Kirth Noel: Yeah, that company was local to me. And I still work with them up to this day. So they were not far from me. Again, it came out of that networking event that I, that I went to connecting with these people and then, you know, in the meantime as well, you know, I'm also, you know, showcasing my work at this point on my website, on my social media.

And so there's other avenues coming in directly. Direct to clients.

Steve Folland: Your website, even though you didn't have that much to show, you had gone out and created stuff, which was the sort of thing you wanted to be doing. You'd positioned yourself as that.

Kirth Noel: Correct. Even when I went to the agency, I didn't have much to show, but I had something to show. And I think that that's what it is. That's what's important is that you can't necessarily wait until to say, well, I need to have this level of work in my portfolio before I can even approach somebody. You know, you're always growing anyway, and you're always evolving.

If you wait for that point, then you're just going to wait forever because you never get there. So that was the approach that I took. And they believed in, in what I, what I sold, what I told them. And yeah, I started doing work for them. Like I say, I work with them up to this point.

Steve Folland: How many years has it been that you've been working with them? When was it that you transitioned to video?

Kirth Noel: I'd say, seven years ago.

Steve Folland: That's a long time. What do you think is the secret to that sort of long term client relationship?

Kirth Noel: I think you have to produce the quality that they're, they're expecting. Well, let's say for first of all, so, you know, focus on, on really producing work that they would call you back for the next one, you know, their clients would be happy and then their clients would offer them, you know, more. And so, you know, they'll keep coming back to you.

So , that's reliability. It is super important to be reliable. So you always, you know, make sure that you always turn up and you always turn up on time just, just things like that, that has nothing to do with video. You know what I mean? That you deliver your time, you know what, what you said, you're going to deliver in the time that you say you're going to do it at least try, you know, means things happen from time to time, but aim to do that.

So then what that does is it builds trust with them and they're not worried, they're not worried at any point that you won't be able to deliver.

Steve Folland: As you moved from selling to customers, albeit for a luxury product, as you put it into corporate video, how did you know what you were doing pricing wise?

Kirth Noel: Yeah, that's a good question. I didn't really know what to begin with, so I just kind of, I mean, I spoke to a couple of people who were doing it, who were in the industry. I did some research online to like find out what the typical rates might be for a day rate, you know, and it's quite a sliding scale.

There is really no definitive answer even now. And especially. It's really dependent on the brief as well. Anyway, it's the pricing could be dependent on what is it that the client wants, what it would take to achieve that, or even what your capabilities are, you know, how scalable. That you can be like, is it a one person shoot?

Does it require two, three, four? Does it require a bigger crew? So it's difficult to even, you know, start to say, well, okay, this is my price list, so this is my pricing. But you get a feel and you get an idea when you speak to other people, especially in the industry who, you know, A lot of people don't want to talk about pricing and money to you.

Like they don't want to tell you what they're making. It's always kind of been that way. So you kind of figure it out and you might find, you might set a price and you end up doing like a lot of work. Let's say we start in low, right? Cause we want to attract the client. We want to make it attractive to them.

We want to get that, we want to land that gig. And sometimes in the beginning, that's what you have to do. So you land the gig. Yeah. You turn it around and now you have a portfolio piece. Now you have a testimonial. Now you have something to grow on. Right. So it's not necessarily all it's a bad thing, but then you find, you know what?

I spent five days shooting and editing this video. And as you grow on your portfolio, you get bigger. You're able to confidently command a pay rise for yourself. If you like, you know I think what might be difficult if you started a certain level with a particular client and you're having to, you know, increase that, like, you know, A year later or two, you know, that might be a little bit, so you might have to find some new clients to, to bring that new pricing in there.

Steve Folland: It's an interesting thing you say there about, you know, there's so many variables in video production. So, you know, if I speak to a I don't know, even a logo designer, like, like we had recently or copywriter. There might be a very specific thing, you know, like I write this blog post, it will cost this amount.

And therefore they feel confident putting their prices on their website. For you, working in video production, there are so many variables, you possibly, I don't know, do you put any indication of pricing on your website? And if not, how far down the track of filtering through a client? Do you go? And Until you get to that point.

So you've not spent too long figuring something out, giving them a proposal and a price for them to say, Oh, sorry. That's way more than we thought. Do you, do you see what I mean?

Kirth Noel: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I've had that and I've had to adapt and change. So so this, this is sort of the client journey. There's the discovery, they'll find out who I am, they'll like what I do, they want to reach out to me. This is where you can reach out to me, there's a form, it's a questionnaire that you fill out.

You tell me about your business, about your brand, about what it is that you want, what is the purpose of the video, and a few other questions, right? And there's a, there's a, there's a text box in there, like a free text box, and it says, what's your budget? And no one ever fills that, yeah, no one ever fills that box out.

Okay, so now I'm getting these inquiries in and I'm responding as, okay, thanks for reaching out, et cetera. You know, based on what they've put in as to what they want, what the requirements are, I can give them a ballpark figure as to where we're working with and let them know. What other incidentals might take that price up from there, but that's, that's still an extra step that you have to do if that client doesn't, is unable to reach that budget, right?

And so now what I've, what I've done after that, after the fact, the most recent thing is to sort of put my, my starting point in, in that questionnaire. And it's a mandatory fill. And it's a drop down box. It's a drop down menu. So you don't, it's not, it's not a free text. So it's, it's three different tiers of pricing.

So this bracket, second bracket, and third. So you have to select one of those. So even if you select the lowest tier, you already know what you're getting yourself into. Oh, as a matter of fact, I probably shouldn't continue filling out this form because it's not. So yeah, it's at that point I've received far less inquiries, you know, but that, that, that, that filters out that whole kind of.

It's sort of clientele that doesn't have the budget.

Steve Folland: Is it just you responding to those leads that come in because you might be tied up on a shoot. Those might be quite long days or something like that. So how do you deal with the admin side, those leads and stuff, whilst also doing the work, which you might already be committed to?

Kirth Noel: Yeah so there's, you know, various methods of automation that you can use to help you with that. I mean, there's the, you know, generic answers that you can sort of have an auto response to. Right. And so, for example, if I was to get one of those, one of those inquiries, there would be an initial response automatic about to say that, look, I've got your inquiry, and I will follow up when I get the time and usually it's no more than 24 hours from from that happening, you know I'm able to check my inbox daily for stuff like that. I try to respond as quickly as I can anyway, because I think it shows, you know, sort of that sense of sense of case sense of urgency that there's someone there on the other side that's picking up your email

Steve Folland: Yeah. So it's almost like the expectation of the way you might end up working together starts at that first touch point.

Yeah. Okay. So I tell you what, I introduced you as a video production specialist. We've gone from photography to baby photography to corporate video, but I didn't introduce you as a corporate video person even though you might still work on that stuff So how did it continue to evolve to where you are today?

Kirth Noel: What I'm doing mostly now is product promotional video. So product commercials and that kind of thing. And that was born really through COVID. So COVID came and now we can't see people. We can't film people. We can't reach people. And so what do we do? So I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, well, I got to do something.

I can, I can't just sit here. And so I started shooting products in my studio. That's my home studio, like a shed at the back end of the house. And that's my space. Right. So I'm shooting products out of there. I know I'm making behind the scenes video, put it up on YouTube. So I'm still active, actively doing stuff and I'm liking it.

I'm enjoying that part of it now and I'm like, okay, this might be something, you know, and that's how it always starts. Like you couldn't, this could be something, but yeah. So we're there doing that now and I'm enjoying it. Videos are going out on YouTube. Everyone's watching YouTube at this point because nobody's going anywhere

And that's where the discovery comes in and then people are reaching out to me. Oh, I've seen your work. I like your work. Can we work together? And I'm like, yeah, sure. Why not? And then, you know, and so now we're talking about investing in gear that is specific to this niche.

You know, we want to do motorized sliders. We have to get, you know, bigger lights in with softbox and, you know, and then here we go again, it's a never ending cycle. And then I've realized I'm working with companies in the U S and in Europe and in Australia, and I'm like, you know, this could work because I've really not got any geographical boundaries here.

I enjoy this, this, this particular thing particularl niche. So I'm going down this road now, and again, it's getting a sense of what it is that you like, what is it that you love doing. And a lot of what I do is quite technical. So I've got an engineering background and I'm doing photography and now I'm starting to introduce elements of engineering into my work.

And I'm like, what is, what is this thing? What is this, what is this new thing? Like why haven't I, you know, sussed this before? Like a long time, you know, that's where it kind of ended up. And to be fair, I think that's where it's kind of, it's going to be, but there was quite a revolution on evolution with regard to that, because now there's this, have you heard about visual engineering?

Steve Folland: Let's assume everybody hasn't

Kirth Noel: Yeah. So visual engineering is really the combination of... well, I'll say photography in a general because, you know, video is a motion form of photography. So you're using photography and engineering to create like visually stunning art that you don't normally see every day, you know, so we're using things like motion controls, we're using things like pneumatics to shoot things into the air and move stuff, turn it around.

And so what we do now is animating a physical product. Removing that in its own space, and we're giving it life and it has its own, you know, sort of characters, you know, so that's, that's kind of what you're doing with that. So, yeah, and then, as we say, it's, it's, it spirals from there because now there's more investment to be made for like, to create all of those rigs and to create those solutions.

So really, it's about, it's about problem solving when it comes to problem solving from a visual point of view. And problem solving from an engineering point of view.

Steve Folland: I tell you what, you have to go and check out Kurth's well, his Instagram, his LinkedIn, like, his YouTube, like, wherever he is posting these videos, so you can see the behind the scenes and, and for that matter, the end videos that he's talking about, because they're really incredible, and And the word specialist can be, can be banded about quite easily, but this really is a technical speciality within video.

And as you say, I guess people can send you their products from all over the world for you then to bring to life. How much time do you put into your own, I guess, research and development into your own tinkering process in order to, to do these kinds of things? Like, do you still create your own?

Portfolio pieces, I guess, in order to land other work while you're playing.

Kirth Noel: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so 12 months ago is when I made a really, a really substantial bit of, bit of kit investment. So this is probably my biggest kit investment to date, which is a motion control robot camera. Or the motion control robot arm that moves the camera. Okay, so there was a learning curve, a really steep one to be able to get proficient and to get confident with that piece of equipment, right?

And the software to drive it. So there was a period of time, like, for the, for the, for the past, yeah, maybe for the past year, I'd say, you know, it, it months prior to, to that. Of learning and, and, and, and just experimenting fully, just experimenting, but in the meantime that I'm experimenting on and learning also, you know, doing that in a way where I'm creating a piece of work that I'm, I'm either recreating that work that I've seen before, or, you know, Developing something that I've might have had in my head, but I'm learning and I'm creating these pieces.

And so at the end of that learning period, or that eight months of intense personal, you know, training, like self taught training, because there isn't much, you know, resources out there with regards to that, is that I have now a new piece of, a new body of work, a new reel to show, to showcase. And so. That in itself was, was a good outcome, you know, plus all the learning and competency that I was doing during that time.

Steve Folland: Do you wait for these new customers to find you as in, you know, because you, you were doing corporate stuff. Now you're doing product stuff, people just finding you via the content you're creating, or do you do cold outreach and networking in order to get them?

Kirth Noel: That's a good question. And it's quite appropriate for like right now, as in today, as maybe this month, let's, let's see, because prior to that, yes, it was a matter of waiting, not even waiting around, because I don't necessarily wait around, I'm always doing something, but I depended on referrals or discovery for my, for my work.

I never did any active marketing or outreach marketing or call emails to call in. I never really did any of that. But I think there's a couple of things that kind of changed that for me. I think the first thing was, like I mentioned before, I was working from my home studio. And it was fine, there wasn't that much, you know, overheads per se, you know, there'll be the equipment costs in a lot of the cases, but I'm not paying a studio rent, I'm not, you know what I mean, there's certain things that I'm keeping really minimum, so, you know, it wasn't, so, it worked.

Is what I'm saying that part of it worked and there was enough coming in to be able to do that and and then I decided to do it big and so I had to get a bigger space so I didn't know have a studio space where I'm big boy rent on there and so I had to really start thinking about. How I'm going to manage all of this new expense comfortably.

Anyway, so that's the kind of thing about how I'm going to change my approach with respect to my marketing. And within the last, like I said, I was so busy in the, in the last year, just, just trying to. Get myself around this new system and that kind of thing. So now I'm actively looking at doing that type of marketing.

So the more I would call it more aggressive outreach, you know, more aggressive marketing where it involves reaching out. And I'm starting to use LinkedIn to leverage that because having something as passive as my social channels, where people may or may not discover me based on what the algorithm wants to do, then it's quite ad hoc.

It's not, it's not really a robust business model in my, in my, in my opinion. And if it does happen in the meantime, whilst I'm doing this, it's also fine. But I want to, I want to, I wanted to do something a little bit more, you know, stable in terms of. Reaching the type of clients that I want to reach as well, as opposed to having clients reach out to me, that may not be the right one.

Steve Folland: Yes, so that's, so you're pretty much at the beginning of this new phase. Well, I want to know how it all goes, so I'm going to be following along, that's for sure. With this new approach to your business, though, you know, now that you've got a much bigger studio space and all this expensive equipment and and so on.

Do you have any, I don't know, business groups that you're a member of or mentors or coaches or, you know, are you figuring it all out yourself or are you being advised at all?

Kirth Noel: So now that I do plan to take this approach I've recently joined a coaching program specifically for LinkedIn. Getting the most out of LinkedIn, it's an investment as well. So I've joined this program where they give you the coaching, they give you the help. They even give you resources. And with this particular one, you even get an assistant, like a virtual assistant to do a lot of the integrative stuff, because I'm not great at.

As cold email and people and sending us out like that's not within my, my nature. I absolutely hate and so if someone could do that for me, then it kind of takes, take that back from me. But yeah, of course so there's, there's that being implemented now, so I'm setting up to do, I'm actually going to be doing live events.

Right? So we're currently in the process of setting that up in the background. So getting the email lists out and developing the topics, which I'm going to be presenting on these live events, and I'm going to be doing those twice a month. It's really about brand awareness and education and just like reaching my sort of ID client and just having an interaction with them.

It's not necessarily a selling exercise, basically. It's quite passive stuff. But Yeah, I don't want to be reaching those, those people and then, yeah, doing some, some cold emails as well.

Steve Folland: Brilliant. What's the live event look like? Is that on LinkedIn itself showing around your studio or?

Kirth Noel: No, that's gonna, so that's going to be hosted via zoom, but it will be a linkedin, you know, a linkedin advertised event, you know, on linkedin. I kind of try to get some, some people to come along to those, but there will be an element of. You know, showcasing the studio and my processes and the technology that I use, I think is important for, for, for people to kind of understand the process and what goes into creating these types of videos.

But it would also be about, you know, topics like how you can, you know, extend the life of, of your content. You know what I mean? You've paid to, to, to create this, this, this piece of work. Well, how would you Maximize that or do you make it work for you than just one single asset or a post or, you know, you can repurpose that.

What does that look like, you know yeah, and a lot of education. Educational content around just, you know, considerations, for example, when you're looking for a video production studio for your, for your content, you know what I mean? And just kind of using that as an angle to show what is possible if you were to kind of work with me.

Steve Folland: Wow. Well, good luck with that. We're recording this today and you are in a studio, but it's not your studio. And you said it's a friend's studio, which got me thinking about, it's very easy to see other video production people as competitors, but you're saying, you know, it's a friend's studio. Like, do you have, Lots of friends within the, I guess the industry.

Kirth Noel: Yeah, I tend to try to foster a lot of relationship with, with, with my peers. The thing is. Like I say, I'm in this particular niche, like one, there's going to be a point where I'm also looking at, you know, having getting services from them, or they might have a particular project that involves only a tiny bit of what I do.

But it's important for him. So I think building those relationships across the board, I think it should be looked at as as as competition per se. And recently, that's what I've been trying to do as well. So I've had a couple of people, you know, other other video creators from local They came to the studio to visit and that caught on with some other guys.

And then now I've just learned that there's like this whole kind of network within my area that I did not know of, of theater production teams and different types of suppliers that might come in handy for you, which is the whole point of, of, of networking as well. Right. And, and they're willing to, to, to plug me into different things, which is super cool.

And vice versa. So, yeah, I think, I think it's important. It is as important to build out relationships with your peers as it is to build a relationship with your clients.

Steve Folland: Yeah. And I'm just sitting here thinking in terms of, you know, we touched upon pricing, but in terms of that, it feels like perhaps there needs to be a really good level of squirreling money away to invest in your business. Like you seem to have done that quite a number of times. Over the years has that been like a conscious way of dealing with your finances?

Kirth Noel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because. We're, we're in a competitive market, video content creation is especially at the moment is the accessibility is so open. It's so easy. I mean, mobile phones, right? And you're, you're creating content already. Like it's, it's, it's so easy. So, you know, in, in order to really kind of keep ahead of, of the curve or, or to provide something else that isn't in the whole, See of what everyone else is doing.

Then you got to think about that. You really have to think of what, what are the things that can help me give that extra edge. And so, yeah, having to manage, you know, manage your cash flows and your finances to be able to facilitate that is, is, is a conscious thing that you have to do. It's not an easy thing to do, but really, you know, it's about, there's a lot of sacrifices that he got to make, especially in the, in the.

Early or the young stages, and I think I'm still in that young, young stage of the business and of the growth, especially the fact that, like I say, you know, this is kind of where I think I'm going to be in this space, in this niche for quite some time to come.

Steve Folland: Yeah, you were obviously Working from home from a home studio as well at the bottom of the garden now You've got your own studio. Perhaps not. Is it far from home?

Kirth Noel: No, so it's not at all. It's like seven minutes from home. So

Steve Folland: Ah, perfect. Okay But has it made a difference in terms of your work life balance? Getting this new space

Kirth Noel: probably been worse.

Steve Folland: Interesting. Go on.

Kirth Noel: When I was in my home studio, I can just walk out the door and I'm going to my house and I'm, I'm there, you know, and there's my, there's my life balance right here, but no I think when I'm at the studio, I tend to get carried away and I just lose myself in that space and time is non existent and by the time, you know, it's 10 o'clock at night because I'm trying to finish, I'm trying to solve a problem, I'm trying to come up, you know, come up with a solution and I'm very much Get to this stage, get to a convenient point where it's, it's okay to, to, to break or, or to stop.

So if I, I try to get there and sometimes I might get there and it might be a decent time, but I'm like, I can squeeze in or something. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's really a myth.

Steve Folland: A work in progress. As you say, it's all an experimentation. I meant to ask, because you mentioned an engineering background, so what was your full time role? Like, what was your job before you went into photography?

Kirth Noel: I worked for TFL, so Transport for London as an engineer, fixing trains. Plot Twist. I still am.

Okay. So I am in full time employment. I know this blows, this blows people's minds everywhere. I was able to reinvest all of the money that I've made over the years into my business because I was in full time employment. Yes. I'm, I'm still working for TFL.

20 years ago, I moved to the UK from St Vincent and the Grenadines to join the British Army. Iwas an engineer working on helicopters.

Steve Folland: Wow, okay, very cool. Alright, let's back up into this TFL thing. So, how long have you been working for TFL? Transport for London.

Kirth Noel: A long time, 14 years.

Steve Folland: What is your work week like then?

Kirth Noel: Yeah, so I do, I do shift work and so it, it, it could be days this week, it could be ninth, it could be, it gets here, here and there. So, you know, my, my, my, my business is really, it's not a shop front. It's not an open shop where you, you come in, you can come in any time of the day.

And so everything is scheduled and planned. So if, you know, a client reaches out to me for, for some work, it's going to be based around my availability. That's the way when I can produce that, I'm going to come up with a term that's based on my availability when I'm not. There, there are times when I, I come from there and I go to the studio or I leave the studio and I go straight there.

So it's, yeah, sorry. This is a freelance podcast,

Steve Folland: no, no, but you are, but, but you are. And actually I think it's, I think it's a fascinating plot twist to, to our conversation. If I'm honest, because how, so how far ahead do you know your shift? Like, how does that impact

Kirth Noel: for, for the next, for the next forever.

Steve Folland: Okay, so it's a very regular, it's not like, because some people who are like nurses might only find out a week before or,

Kirth Noel: No, no, no, no, no. It's the same every eight weeks it resets.

Steve Folland: Right, gotcha. So actually it makes, it makes scheduling the freelance stuff easier.

But have you been tempted with the success of your video or photographic business? To leave that behind and go all in on on this

Kirth Noel: The idea is at some point to make that transition. It has to be the right time. It has to be the right time for me. It has to be the time that it makes sense.

Steve Folland: In your head. What is the metric that makes it make sense?

Kirth Noel: I would say, I would say having a consistent marker and in terms of turnover and an income and just systems in place, especially from a marketing point of view, you know what I mean? So if, if I were to say, okay, let's look at the next two years. What's that, what that is going to look like. And if I'm happy with that, then I can say this is working.

Bear in mind, remember what we said about the whole processes of transitions that I went through throughout the whole journey about being a photographer, trying this, trying this, doing this. Okay. And then, and then, and then come to the end of what I said, this is where I'm going to be, because this is the thing that I've been searching for.

Right? This is, this is me now. I was, I'm able to do, fuse those two things, the engineering and the photography. And this is the space that I want to play. As you know, as that, so it, you know, prior to this, maybe, maybe it wouldn't, it wouldn't have even made sense. I was just, you know, stayed in the, in the, in the studio, in the garden and just have some extra bit of income on the side, but now it's, it's looking like a real worker prospect.

Steve Folland: Yeah, do you think knowing you have that stable income then in the you know in the background? Has freed you up to be more experimental and follow what has interested you.

Kirth Noel: Most definitely, most definitely. And it's allowed me to put that caveat on my questionnaire, that, that budget starting point on my questionnaire, it allowed me to do that because if there wasn't for that, I'd probably have to just take any job that came my way just because I needed to make, you know what I mean?

So to, to fulfill my, my financial obligations, probably I would, I would have to do that, you know? So it, it allowed me that level of. Yeah, but

Steve Folland: I, all power to you, but, and, you know, I just want to get across to, like, the fact that you come, the way you portray yourself online is as, well, I guess as a full time video specialist. I'm not even going to say videographer, because you don't necessarily share the corporate video stuff that you might still do.

You very much share that very specialist, robotic, mind blowing stuff, both the final product and the behind the scenes. Like, it's all very much, man, I want to hire this guy. In fact, I want to start a product just so that he can film it.

Kirth Noel: I think this might be an exclusive, if you're not in my immediate sort of friendship circle, like, even if you look at my, my, my LinkedIn, I have, I don't have any employment history on it about nine to five work. It's not, it wasn't relevant because it wasn't really a sector where you had to. I don't know for me anyway, like progressively try to, you know, climb up that space and that ladder and try to make sure that you have that presence in that respect.

So I used it just specifically for my thing and for me and for what I want to do and for what I'm about. And so unless you're in my, like, this is pretty much like, this is the first time I've publicly really. Actually mentioned that and it was for a couple of reasons. I think it's an important part of my story, but I think a lot of times I had thought, you know, if people, if people think that, you know, you have a, I have a nine to five, like they might not take you too seriously about what you're doing and stuff like that.

But it's not, it's not, it's not an issue anymore because I think it's part of your story and I think B nowadays people have different vocations, you know, to fulfill that. Their lifestyles and stuff. So yeah, so you got an exclusive there, Stephen.

Steve Folland: Well, I appreciate you sharing it because the fact is there will be people listening, doing that same thing, you know, or thinking they shouldn't do that and so on and so forth, all the variations of that cause I, it's been such joy chatting to you, not just from, from watching what you do online, but also really interesting to hear the way you've like explored, you know, Your interests and like the niche but also looking to the future and seeing what you can do You know, you know like sometimes people feel like they need to have a niche right away and actually you've kind of Weaved your way around it, but where you're at now is definitely a specialist niche and yeah, I love it Oh, I could talk about that side of things all day But i've got to let you go because hey, you might have a shift later.

Kurth so good to talk to you and all the best being freelance

Kirth Noel: All right. Thanks, Steve we'll catch up, man. You must come, come visit the studio sometime.

Steve Folland: I'd love to. Yeah. I mean, you heard that, right? He invited me to his studio. I should go.

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