Marketing Consultant Ayo Abbas
About this episode…
MARKETING CONSULTANT AYO ABBAS
Spring 2020. A pandemic lockdown. Doesn’t sound like the ideal time to build a business, but Ayo had 20 years of marketing experience as her foundations. And a love of marketing that she’d put to good use on herself.
Specialising in the ‘built environment’ - think construction, engineers, architects - Ayo launched a podcast that raised her profile and brought her clients. Repurposing content across socials and her newsletters, Ayo took the same plans, systems & processes she uses with clients to boost her own business.
With award-winning added to her LinkedIn profile, she’s built something pretty special. Maybe we can learn by studying the blueprints.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
MARKETING? DO WHAT YOU ENJOY
Ayo is a marketer who enjoys marketing herself - something all freelancers need to do.
“There's a million different ways that you can do your marketing, right? There's no right and wrong way. It's finding the things that you enjoy and that suit your personality.”
BUILDING THROUGH PODCASTING
In her first few months of freelancing Ayo taught herself how to podcast - then launched her podcast. 3 years on and it’s made such a difference to her business….
“Helping me to raise my profile, connecting me with the right people.
Some of my podcast guests who I didn't know have become my clients.But also, I mean it's in terms of like what I want to do going forward. I don't just wanna be a marketing consultant, I also wanna be a marketing consultant who does speaking and things like that. And it's got me work speaking, I've got work doing other people's podcasts hosting, so it's given me another revenue stream.”
CONNECTING THROUGH LINKEDIN
Ayo posts 3-4 times a week on LinkedIn, as well as connecting, commenting, having a LinkedIn newsletter and even doing LinkedIn Live streams. But it’s also about taking those connections offline…
“If I make connections with the right people, I try and have virtual coffees with people and stuff like that - take stuff offline. Cause I think that's where you get the real kind of hook in terms of potential business opportunities.”
MARKETING PROCESSES
For everything Ayo does, she figures out a system and process. She makes the most out of all of her content and even re-uses her LinkedIn posts…
“I have an archive now that runs back for three years. So I have an Asana that is every single post I've posted and it's all categorised. So I can go, do I want something that talks about my business? Do I want a carousel, do I just wanna text only post? And also I can search certain keywords if I wanna talk about targeting, positioning - what did I write about that? - I can just search that and then I can amend that, update it, use it at the starter...
But that makes stuff quicker as well. You don't always have to create new because I create so much content, I might as well reuse it ‘cause the likelihood you're gonna see everything I do is highly unlikely.”
AWARDS HAVE MEANING EVEN IF YOU DON’t WIN
Ayo has won awards, including Digital Woman of the Year 2022, but actually just putting together the entry and taking time to reflect on what you’ve done as a freelancer is rewarding in itself…
“I think awards are a good way of taking stock. A good way of realising how far you've come. And if you take them as that, they're really useful because you know, to sit there and go actually do you know what, I have worked with five of the top engineering firms since 2020 in the UK and these are massive firms, right? When you suddenly start looking at that granularity and you go, actually that is a big deal.”
“There's a million different ways that you can do your marketing…
There's no right and wrong way. It's finding the things that you enjoy and that suit your personality”
Marketing Consultant Ayo Abbas
More from AYO Abbas
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Marketing Consultant Ayo Abbas
Steve Folland:
As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Ayo Abbas:
So I've always worked in the kind of construction sector, so marketing, architects, engineers, those types of people, construction firms. And I tended to work in-house and in 2019 I decided to try something different and I actually went and started working in an EdTech company. So I was the head of marketing in an EdTech company, which was a startup as well. It was really good fun. We did lots of crazy stuff... but obviously we ran outta money, I got made redundant and then I was looking for a job back in construction. And then I just didn't find anything that I really wanted to do. So I kind of sat there and thought, do I look for this job or do I start my own thing? And I decided to start my own thing in February, 2020.
Steve Folland:
So did you do anything freelance on the side?
Ayo Abbas:
I was made redundant, so I'd stopped working in November. So then it was like, you know, Christmas, so nobody's really gonna employ anyone, January slow to pick up, isn't it? And then I wasn't seeing jobs I wanted, so I didn't do any freelancing for other people. No, but it had always been in the back of my mind as something I might want to do at some point.
Steve Folland:
So how did you get those first freelance clients?
Ayo Abbas:
Well, I started in February, 2020. And my first client actually came through a Facebook group. And it was a coding company and they were asking for some advice about some marketing thing. And all the advice they were being given was wasn't actually that good. Um, so like everyone was like, oh, you need to do this because they were selling an email service or you need to do that because they were selling a particular service, rather than looking at it and going, actually let's look at this properly and understand what you really need. So that was kind of what my response was. I did that, had an offline conversation and that's how I got my first job. So that was doing their messaging and copy for the website for the new product/service they were launching for kids. And that was around STEM and education, which actually fitted well with that job I'd just finished. So that was my first job.
Steve Folland:
But this was the spring of 2020...
Ayo Abbas:
Well obviously something happened in March 2020 that nobody could have predicted. I was actually quite lucky. When I started my freelance business, I didn't just start full-time. I also secured a part-time role locally working for an architectural firm in-house maternity cover for six months. So I actually started that as well. So I did both. The idea was start off freelance part-time, do half working, three days a week at this practise, just doing the in-house marketing. So nothing special, but just doing little stuff, which is fine. And yeah, obviously what happened was in 2020 with lockdown, I was furloughed, which actually worked out quite well because then that just gave me time to work on my business, but also to do homeschool for my son. So yeah, it actually worked out really, really well.
And obviously as there was nothing you could really do, I decided that, you know, how am I gonna get my business out there? Cause I hadn't really been networking that much because I was working in-house and a mum. So I went online, joined lots of communities and networks. I did lots of online learning, lots of the courses that everyone was doing and I kind of embraced all of that. And then I kind of found LinkedIn and really ramped that up and used that as my networking and to build my network that way. So I was like, right, I'm gonna go online. I have control of that.
Steve Folland:
And you've mentioned about having a built environment niche, like working with architects and things like that. Yeah. At what point did you think, oh actually that's my niche, that's what I'm gonna be known for?
Ayo Abbas:
I think it was quite easy for me cuz I mean really I've been working in that sector for 20 years. Apart from that one year out where I went to EdTech. But I mean even that EdTech role still was involved in the built environment because it was about STEM, it was about getting, you know, kids into science, engineering. So it was still kind of what I do, but in a slightly different lens. So because I've always done that, that's kind of the world I know best. And I think when I'm talking to clients, the thing they like is I understand their world, I can talk their language. So actually it made sense for me to specialise in that area because, you know, I love it, I understand it, I can talk the language, I know how it works as a market. So I can definitely hone down on that. And to be honest, I mean there's like thousands of architects, thousands of engineers -so there's loads of work out there.
Steve Folland:
So you're furloughed, you're realising you can network on LinkedIn. How did you find your next freelance clients?
Ayo Abbas:
I can't remember all my next clients. I think my next clients may have come through my existing network. So people who I knew who asked me to do small jobs for them, I think that's where that came from. But they were seeing stuff I was putting out on LinkedIn..
Steve Folland:
So what were you doing on LinkedIn?
Ayo Abbas:
I did loads. I did lots of posts about marketing and what I'd learned. I also... oh yeah, I forgot one thing. I did set up a podcast.
Steve Folland:
Yeah, just a small thing, <laugh>,
Ayo Abbas:
I love podcasts and I have done since I had my son, you know, I listened to them avidly and I'd constantly been thinking, I really wanna do something around marketing and what's it gonna be, how's it gonna be? And cuz I wanted to learn something over the lockdown. I was like, actually I'm gonna learn about podcasting. So I read loads of stuff, read some of your blogs actually, read books, watched webinars, did all of that. Learned all about podcasting. Then I bought myself a mic and headphones and wrote myself a plan of how I was gonna do it and that's what I did. So I launched that in July, 2020. And that was a great way actually of connecting me with new firms and some of my podcast guests who I didn't know have become my clients.
Steve Folland:
How did you get on with podcasting for your business? I guess there's two sides to that question. There's like the, was it easy, was it hard? But also like, did it have an impact?
Ayo Abbas:
I think there's something about marketing, right? I always say there's like a million ways you can skin a cat. Like there's a million different ways that you can do your marketing, right? There's no right and wrong way. It's finding the things that you enjoy and that suit your personality, right? And I like talking and I like picking people's brains and it was a way of a, I guess associating me with these brands and these firms. So I'm talking to some of the top architectural practises in the country, some of the most innovative ones. So it's like guilty by association, right? But also it's starting to build relationships with those brands which is really important for me. But also I think podcasting is such a kind of open space and you know, especially for business to business marketing, there's not that many of them.
So it was a space I could own and make my own. So that's why I wanted to do it. And then in terms of getting the skills and understanding, I think as you go along and once you start, then you learn as you go. And in terms of my actual business, it was a good way of showcasing my own expertise as well. Because I guess to be able to ask podcast questions properly, Steve, um, you've got to have an understanding of how it works, haven't you? And how the mechanics of marketing work to be able to ask some questions and have an intelligent conversation.
Steve Folland:
And you've kept it going.
Ayo Abbas:
Yes, because I do it in seasons cuz I do fall out of love with it sometimes. It's hard work, podcasting. It really is. And I think people don't realise how much effort it takes - that's why most podcasts fail under five episodes because actually it's a lot more work than you think and even just promoting it takes a lot. So I've got all the kind of processes and stuff in place. But yeah, to keep it going, it does take quite a lot of effort so that's why I do it in seasons.
Steve Folland:
And you have changed the name as it's gone on?
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah. Only three times Steve. <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
What made you change the name?
Ayo Abbas:
Well, after all the subsequent various lockdowns, it got to the stage where it was like 'crisis' just sounded really negative and it was kind of, I guess lockdown and crisis and uncertainty - I guess uncertainty is something we're all having to get used to. So then I thought actually I don't wanna talk about crisis anymore. It's too depressing. I'd rather talk about 'recovery'. So I did that and then the economy started tanking again last year and I thought are we even in recovery or back in recession <laugh>, I didn't wanna go to crisis. And then I thought actually I'm better off tying it in with the rest of my brand and my overall kind of built environment marketing strap line and what I do. So the Built Environment Marketing Show, that is where that was born really.
Steve Folland:
So you'd credit doing that podcast with making a real difference to your business, would you?
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah, and helping me to raise my profile, connecting me with the right people. But also, I mean it's in terms of like what I want to do going forward. I don't just wanna be a marketing consultant, I also wanna be a marketing consultant who does speaking and things like that. And it's got me work speaking, I've got work doing other people's podcasts hosting, so it's given me another revenue stream. And they hear my voice Steve...
Steve Folland:
<laugh>.
Ayo Abbas:
It's so important though, isn't it? Like your voice is really distinctive and I have to admit, I go to events now and sometimes I'll be talking or put my hand up and say something, not say who I am and someone will come up to me and go, "I know your voice!" Which is also quite creepy, but <laugh> that did happen. But it is that thing of, yeah, people do know who I am.
Steve Folland:
They know who you are, they know what you're like and they know what you do. Which is really cool. Earlier you said there's all these different ways you can market yourself. You have the podcast - how else do you market yourself?
Ayo Abbas:
Um, so how else do I market myself? So I said LinkedIn, which we've already talked about, which I love, but LinkedIn I kind of use in terms of doing posts but also connecting with relevant people, sharing what I'm doing, sharing my case studies, links into my website. So I use that kind of for a variety of things. And I also, I guess I try and take LinkedIn if I make connections with the right people, try and have kind of virtual coffees with people and stuff like that and take stuff offline. Cause I think that's where you get the real kind of hook in terms of potential business opportunities. And another way is networking communities. So that virtual coffee thing I think is important. But also I'm in a number of communities. So like Doing It For The Kids, for example, Found and Flourish, which is a female founders one and also some built environment marketing ones - a built environment marketing community called Buildup. So there's a number of those types of communities which I'm either involved in or a member of or on the committee of. And I think those help me as an individual and a business owner and a freelancer, but also they help me in terms of spreading the word of what I do. Cause you never know where a lead can come from.
Steve Folland:
So you're on a committee?
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah, I'm on the committee of Build Up. I think Build Up's been going for about 10 years. I've been on the committee for abou 18 months. It's about 600 people who specialise in marketing, architectural and engineering firms across the UK and also internationally as well. So we do online and in person events. And it's also a supportive community as well because often I find if you work in-house in these types of organisations, you are not the core of that business. So you don't have a network of other marketeers, you are the only one. So it is that kind of supportive community.
Steve Folland:
Nice. Okay. So we've got LinkedIn, communities, not just being a member but being helping organise.. There's the podcast.
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
<laugh>. Anything else?
Ayo Abbas:
Uh, my website. I think a website's important. I guess people always do look you up, so just making sure that your website is up to date matters, your LinkedIn and says who you are and what you do and is a good showcase for you. I always think it's your kind of virtual shop window really, isn't it?
Steve Folland:
Yeah. Do you have a newsletter?
Ayo Abbas:
Oh God, I have two <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
Two.
Ayo Abbas:
Okay. I've got a lot of stuff. Um, <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
That's good! What are the two and how do you keep two going?
Ayo Abbas:
Right, so I guess it sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So I set up my own mailing list via Mailerlite. So I do that and there's a monthly newsletter Built Environment Marketing News Roundup. And so I literally will write one kind of lead article on that, whatever is in my head at the moment. And then I will share some articles that I think are really useful about marketing. And then if I've any lives or podcasts and stuff, I'll put that in there as well. So yeah, that's my own mailing list. I want to grow my own list. That's one of my kind of objectives from last year.
Steve Folland:
Sorry, how often do you do that?
Ayo Abbas:
Only once a month. So end of the month - it's just like a roundup. So it literally is that. So I try not to make too much more work. And then what I do is I take that content, I turn it into really small snackable, just like really short bits. And then I turn that into a LinkedIn newsletter cuz you know, they've got the newsletter feature on LinkedIn. So I call that Built Environment snippets. And that newsletter, it's basically a real short snippets of my existing newsletter. So it's more just transposing it and transferring it across. And I did that because actually LinkedIn newsletters have got good reach. I mean, between them, my own newsletter probably has say so far 150 signups, the LinkedIn one has a thousand.
Steve Folland:
That's really great. And then you said you might mention lives, so that means you're doing lives. Where are you doing lives?
Ayo Abbas:
So I've done lives on LinkedIn. So like, I went live for a week in October, every day interviewing people for my podcast, which I turned into my podcast episodes. And I do that and I do various things when I go on LinkedIn and just, I interview somebody or someone else interviews me. But yeah, I enjoy that. So again, it's like doing a podcast interview, right? And then I can take that content and use it elsewhere and repurpose it so it could be into a podcast, into a blog...
Steve Folland:
So good. There's so much going on there though. Before I ask my next question, which is probably gonna be how do you find the time - is there anything else we haven't mentioned?
Ayo Abbas:
Don't think so. There probably is, but it doesn't spring to mind.
Steve Folland:
In that case. How do you find the time? <laugh>
Ayo Abbas:
I dunno. I mean I guess I'm a marketer, right? And I enjoy making content. I do. And it's what I do for clients and I genuinely enjoy it. I'm one of those strange people, I really enjoy marketing myself.
Steve Folland:
Which is brilliant, but maybe it should be, not 'find' the time, but 'make' the time when there's also client work to do?
Ayo Abbas:
That is the balance that is quite hard and I have to admit, and it's because I have this thing in my head of 'are you networking or not working'? Do you know what I mean? It's really interesting - how do you get that balance of I want to have the visibility to win work, but also I need to be able to deliver that and actually that's something I need to get better at and actually look at are there ways I can get more support? I do have a VA who helps me and she's great. So she helps with the assets for the podcast and things like that and can help me get the first draft together of the newsletter so then I can just go in and top and tail it. So I'm starting to kind of use that because otherwise I realise that I work quite a lot and you know that when you looked at the kind of other things you do and I'm like, um, <laugh>, I'm a mum. Yeah. So I've got to get better at that. And yeah, I do do a lot of stuff but for me, once I've set up - I know what it is and I set up the process, then it's normally quite easy to roll out. Do you know what I mean?
Steve Folland:
Sure, yeah. Well if you are an organised person and you are doing something you enjoy. So you have a VA. How about the podcast? Do you do that?
Ayo Abbas:
So I invite the guests and do all of that kind of stuff. Do the questions. The only thing I don't do is editing. So I do the record and then I send the audio to a podcast editor who puts it together for me.
Steve Folland:
And did you do that right from the beginning?
Ayo Abbas:
Yes. Because when I was setting up my podcast, I went to a number of people whose podcast I liked and I said, what would your one tip be to me? And someone recommended him.
Steve Folland:
Ah, nice.
Ayo Abbas:
That was how I found him.
Steve Folland:
Brilliant because that's still quite a thing isn't it? You know, like I guess spending money on something, which is your marketing, it's not necessarily making you money even though you kind of know it is ultimately. But still, right from the beginning it's quite a thing to do. Did it scare you doing that?
Ayo Abbas:
Well no, because I, I'm a marketer and I know you need to invest in marketing so I <laugh>, I appreciate that. So I kind of sat there and thought, I mean I'm not gonna waste money on things like advertising and stuff like that. I know they don't work. So I was like, where do I wanna invest my money and time and the podcast was one of those cause I loved it and I said, right, I'll do that. And it's not a ridiculous amount of money. I think they're relatively cheap compared to other types of things you could be doing.
Steve Folland:
And creates loads of content that you use elsewhere as well.
Ayo Abbas:
Exactly. So it all kinda does fit together in a slightly mad way. But yeah, I do produce a lot of content and I do write a lot as well cause I enjoy writing, I enjoy talking. So all of the things I do all kind of fit under there.
Steve Folland:
And so all of that, because I know you had 20 years experience as a marketer and a lot of that in the built environment. But still it seems for in the past few years, you've really cemented yourself as like this marketing expert in that field. Like it's paid off.
Ayo Abbas:
Completely. It has. And it's really lovely actually. And when I look back at like, you know, some of the clients I work with now, it's like, you know, I don't always reflect back and realise how far I've come, but I mean it was like, I mean I won the Digital Woman Of The Year overall award last year in 2022. And I wasn't expecting it. But actually I did win and that was huge recognition and I think sometimes I don't realise how much I've achieved until I get those kind of realisations.
Steve Folland:
Do you think entering awards is important?
Ayo Abbas:
I think awards awards are a good way of taking stock, right? A good way of realising how far you've come. And I think if you take them as that, I think they're really useful because you know, to sit there and go actually do you know what, I have worked with five of the top engineering firms since 2020 in the UK and these are massive firms, right? They're like firms of, you know, 70,000 people, a hundred thousand people around the world, they're not small. And you know, when you suddenly start looking at that granularity and you go, actually that is a big deal.
Steve Folland:
And would you say it is then useful in, I don't know, are you now calling yourself an award-winning marketer everywhere or whatever? Has it helped in that respect?
Ayo Abbas:
It has. I actually went to two networking things last night. One where I was talking to somebody and he sort of like blah blah blah, let's connect on LinkedIn and I showed my phone. So we connect on LinkedIn, he looked at my profile and he had been saying, 'oh come along to one of our networking things' and he looked at my LinkedIn headline and he went, 'actually you should be presenting at our next thing'
Steve Folland:
<laugh>
Ayo Abbas:
<laugh>. I kid you not. And that happened last night. So it's kind of stuff like that you go ah, <laugh>, right? That headline thing does work. Finding those snippets that really capture people's attention and go, you're someone worth talking to.
Steve Folland:
One thing I meant to ask you, so you're creating all this content. Do you fix a day a week in which to do it or you do it all in a week? How do you fit it in? Is it just sporadic or planned?
Ayo Abbas:
It's a mix. Planned would be, Sunday evening I will sit there and probably write or have some ideas and sketch out what I'm gonna do on LinkedIn. Podcast? That fits in as and when I need to interview somebody in terms of that. And then, yeah I think it's quite sporadic to be honest. I fit stuff around but most likely on a Friday I might do more on my own stuff.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. When you say you planning out what you're gonna do on LinkedIn? What does that mean?
Ayo Abbas:
I have a Word document and then I just chuck ideas on the page.
Steve Folland:
What you write them there and then, or you come back to that Word document in the week?
Ayo Abbas:
Well I have ideas, it might be a headline. But actually during the week I would, if I'm like, you know, I have a discussion or I'm having a meeting and someone says something, I think, oh that would be a good idea. I will put that in an Evernote doc and save that for later. So I kind of capture those things as I'm going along or else I would never remember. So then I'll come back to those. Also look at what's coming up in my diary. So am I talking somewhere? Am I doing something And then build up my LinkedIn content from those.
Steve Folland:
So how often do you post?
Ayo Abbas:
Probably four or five times a week.
Steve Folland:
So that's not responding to other people's stuff. That's creating your own post.
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah. But then I also have an archive now that runs back for three years. So I have an Asana that is every single post I've posted and it's all categorised <laugh> see what I mean - I like systems and processes - it's all categorised. So I can go, do I want something that talks about my business? So that will be a post, do I want a carousel, do I just wanna text only post? And also I can search certain keywords if I wanna talk about targeting, positioning, what did I write about that - I can just search that and then I can do it, amend that. So there's quick ways as well. Ah,
Steve Folland:
Cool. So you might repurpose/reuse something you've posted in the past?
Ayo Abbas:
Yeah, update it, use it at the starter for 10. But that makes stuff quicker as well. Cause you don't always have to create new because I create so much content, I might as well reuse it cuz the likelihood you're gonna see everything I do is highly unlikely.
Steve Folland:
Oh I love it. <laugh>.
Ayo Abbas:
But that's the stuff I set up with clients. The systems and processes to run a marketing machine I guess in a way that's kind of it, isn't it? And I think that's kind of what we need as well - is how do you get those things in place to make it easier for me to do this stuff and to get more things out of the door?
Steve Folland:
And so work life balance wise, it sounds like you're enjoying being freelance, but yeah. How are you finding that side of it?
Ayo Abbas:
Um, it's a lot of juggling but at least I have the freedom to kind of dictate my own diary. So if I do wanna go to the school concert or help out at the school fair, I can do that. So that's good. I have to admit that there are times I do put my son to bed and then I continue working, you know, and things like that to get things done or to get that podcast episode out for the next day. So there are those types of sacrifices, but I'm trying to get out more this year for networking but also for myself and seeing my friends and things. So kind of, I wanna get a better balance this year.
Steve Folland:
What have you found most challenging about being freelance? Cuz it sounds like it's all gone swimmingly.
Ayo Abbas:
Do you know what I find most challenging? I'm just gonna say it: if I don't invoice, I don't get paid. So you can do all the marketing, you can do all of that stuff, but you also do need to do the work. And it's finding that balance. And that's probably the hardest thing to kind of get your head round and get that you are a business and there's lots of opportunities, but it's actually realising the ones that will help you progress for what you need, but also to make sure that you cover yourself and you are a business and you are in operation. So yeah, that's really the most challenging part.
Steve Folland:
If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Ayo Abbas:
Just give it a try. It's hard work, but it is enjoyable.
Steve Folland:
Ayo it's been so good to talk to you - all the best being freelance!