Podcast Producer Kate Taylor
About this podcast episode…
PODCAST PRODUCER KATE TAYLOR
Meet Kate Taylor, a seasoned podcast producer and founder of the Feast Collective.
Kate discusses the highs and lows of her 20-year freelance career, emphasising the importance of personal relationships and trust in bringing word of mouth work.
We hear all about how Kate started the ‘Feast Collective’ to combat the isolation and stress inherent in freelance work, fostering a supportive community for audio professionals. Very much a sense of not seeing your peers as your competition.
It's an interesting taking on freelancers working together and growing together.
Kate also opens up about her personal fears, the rejection she's faced, winning awards and the strategies she uses to maintain work-life balance.
The episode celebrates 10 years of the 'Being Freelance' podcast - Thanks so much for listening and being part of it!
Available as a video podcast too - Watch Kate here on the site, on YouTube, or Spotify. Enjoy!
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from KATE TAYLOR
Feast Collective
Kate on LinkedIn
Links from Kate’s email signature for Green Energy and Green Banking
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and podcast producer Kate Taylor
Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Kate Taylor: Sure thing. and I love this, by the way, as a professional podcaster, I have to say, I love what you do.
and one of the things that I love about what you do, just to turn the tables on you right from the start, one of the things I love about what you do is that you have a structured framework. And within which anything goes. And I think that combination of, of rules and freedom is the secret to a great podcast.
and, and the secret to a happy work life balance, because you've got the stuff that you always do. So you can do it on automatic pilot and you don't have to think about it. And then within that, you've got freedom to play, to take things how they go. And so I love that you always start with this question.
It's a really good question. and, and generally everything, you know, about, about the show that you do, where you have these kind of set points. so the listener knows what to expect, but within those points, the listener could go anywhere and it's a, and it's a kind of treasure garden. So, so, so well done you.
Steve Folland: That's very kind.
Kate Taylor: but, but to answer the question, I, I never wanted to be freelance. I've actually, I've been freelance for about 20 years and I never wanted it to begin with. I wanted a proper job. I wanted to go to an office and, you know, probably wear tights. You know, that's, that's, that's what I wanted from my working life because I was quite a nervous graduate, you know, when we entered the world of work at my, generation, it was, it was a scary place and I wanted a, I wanted stability for God's sake. and so I went into the advertising industry because I thought that that would be a great combination of creativity and, and sort of proper jobness.
And it was not what I wanted to do. And one of the things that I'm most pleased about actually was that after about four years, I decided it was not for me. And I took the plunge and I left. And it was quite a scary thing to do at the time. And I remember the head of HR going, so what job are you going to?
And I was like, Oh, well, I actually don't have a job to go to. And they were like, Oh, okay.
Steve Folland: Oh it's that bad.
Kate Taylor: Yeah. Well, good luck. so It was scary, but it was the right thing to do. And I remember at the time thinking, you know, am I, am I going to be telling my poor poverty stricken imaginary children in 15 years time, you know, well, I'm sorry, dear.
I know that other people go on holiday, but mummy took some bad decisions in her early twenties and it worked out. But it was, it was a sort of a seismic sort of blow up in that, I decided advertising wasn't for me. my parents got divorced. I split up from my, boyfriend. And I decided I wanted to be a famous actor.
So I left advertising. I auditioned for drama school. Didn't get in. Lucky escape. and then started going, right, what am I going to do next? And I thought I wanted to go into TV. And I was applying for jobs and was trying to mug up. In my prep, I realized I didn't actually watch a lot of TV and I didn't actually really like a lot of TV.
And it was quite arduous doing this prep for interviews and so on.
And I suddenly realised what I did. listen to all the time and love, and would have been much easier if I was doing interviews about that, was radio. podcasts didn't exist then. And so I realized that that's what I should be doing. and I think what's interesting about that was that it wasn't obvious.
It wasn't like I wanted to be an audio producer from, from the beginning. but, That's what I gradually became, and I became a freelancer because that's... the audio industry runs very largely on freelancers. It's very project based. And so even now, where it's much more professional and bigger industry than it was when I started, it runs very, very largely on projects.
And so they need to sort of suddenly pull in lots of people. and. And then things kind of shrink. So, so it is, it does rely largely on freelancers and I sold my first program idea to a production company, which is still going very strong, winning loads of awards called Whistledown Productions. And I always shout out to them because I'm incredibly grateful to David Preston and Whistledown for giving me the chance.
And it was, it was my program idea. We sold it into BBC Radio 4 and it was a searing expose of the, children's book, The Very Hungry Caterpillar. And I made a 30 minute doc about that. And that was the first, the first kind of thing that I, that I made, the first proper show that I ever made.
Steve Folland: Wow. We're all now Googling as to whether we can listen to that documentary.
Kate Taylor: I think you can actually. I think they did it again on, on BBC Extra, like fairly recently. Anyway, it's, it's great.
Steve Folland: So does that mean, so it was less about perhaps finding what we might think of as clients now, but rather going to companies and pitching yourself as well as pitching ideas. Like how did it look for you getting that your first jobs?
Kate Taylor: Yes, it was. It was about building relationships with the companies that could kind of get you a platform, I suppose. What we always said at the time, and is still to a certain extent true in the industry, is that your ideas are your currency. It's an exciting and creative kind of way to live where you're constantly looking at things and going, Oh, Scott's expedition to the Antarctic.
Could there be a program in that? Oh, there's some, oh, that's, that's our dog.
Steve Folland: Dogs barking at neighbors. Could there be ...?
Kate Taylor: Exactly, exactly that. Yeah. So, so that was, that was kind of the way that I was living at the time, but it becomes about your ideas, but also crucially, and I think this is the thing, which is. lasted through my professional career is that it really is all about those personal connections. And it's all about the relationships that you build and the trust and people who think that you are good, nice, interesting and want to work with you again. And I think that that was what's kind of stood me in good stead through this long accidental freelance career.
Steve Folland: How were you meeting those people though? And maybe that's changed. So like, how were you and how are you like contacting people and then maintaining those relationships?
Kate Taylor: So So lots of cold calling to begin with and following up. And by the time The Hungry Caterpillar came out, it's funny to be talking about this given that it was so long ago, but, but by the time The Hungry Caterpillar came out, I did a mail out to... a physical mail out because that's, that's when it was, but I did a physical mail out to all of the people that I had talked to, to try and get work or advice or placements, work experience, whatever it was.
I sent everybody a tiny caterpillar and... not a real one, I hasten to add, and a CV and a little note just saying, you know, thank you so much for, for your advice and help. And you know, my first show is going to be on Radio 4 in a couple of weeks time or whatever it was. So that was a good example of sort of following up on the cold calls and the relationships that I had built.
and I probably got a bit lazier at doing that kind of stuff, over the years. And also now, you know, I'm, I'm more established. And so the, the relationships are in existence and work tends to come to me. I get recommended by word of mouth and so on, which is, which is really nice. But you know, we can always do better, couldn't we?
We should always be posting more on our socials and reaching out for coffees to various people. And I'm no exception. I should, I should absolutely be doing, be doing more of that following up stuff. Perhaps not sending people tiny, pom pom caterpillars, but
Steve Folland: I don't know. by the nature of what you were doing, was it the sort of thing where you would be working for a set amount of time and then that would come to an end?
And if so, how would you have worked lined up further down the line?
Kate Taylor: Yes, it tends to be very project based and then stuff comes to an end and then you feel like you're staring into the abyss. and my partner repeatedly says to me, and has said to me because we've, we've been together for about as long as I've been freelancing, he says, it always works out, something always comes up.
You always say, you're never going to work again after the end of this project. And you always do. So shut up, basically. But, but that fear is also one of the reasons behind why I expanded what I do from pure audio production into running the Feast Collective Network, which is a network of freelancers.
So producers, researchers, sound designers, audio professionals, essentially. And one of the reasons that I did that was because the fear of the black hole, that I would never work again, was doing two things. Firstly, it was making me say yes to projects. that I should have said no to either because I didn't have capacity or because I just didn't want to do them.
They didn't align with my values. They weren't, I wasn't the right person. They weren't the right project, whatever. So it was making me take projects that I didn't want to. And it was also putting just an incredible kind of strain on my creative brain of just living and working in a space where you're frightened and where you're trying to be all things to all people at all hours of the day is quite a quite an isolated and quite a stressful experience and my argument would be that a lot of freelancers exist in that space and that you don't do your best work when you're in that space.
It's not a very expansive or creative mindset. and so I started Feast Collective and it is, it is called Feast Collective because it's about kind of confronting the feast and famine cycle of freelance work. And I started it in order to build my network, In order to not be so isolated, in order to kind of take that panicky brain offline a little bit, so that I could, if I had a problem or I was worried about something, or I needed a sounding board, I have my network that I can call on.
But also a little bit, so that I could manage my own brain in that, I was finding at a certain point in the podcasting boom, I was getting more work than I could do, which is a nice problem to have. but as I said, I, I wasn't able to say no to stuff. So then I was working all hours and that was no good, not a creative space.
And I found that rather than saying no to work, it was more easy for me to say, I can't do it. But actually, I know a great person because of my 15 years in the industry or whatever it is. I know a great person who could. And to pass the work on was much more psychologically possible for me and also maybe future proof my own precarious freelance career a little bit because, you know, they might scratch my back at some point in the future.
So, so that, that was the kind of the beginnings of, of Feast Collective, if you like.
Steve Folland: So you've gone with the word 'collective' so you weren't, because you could have thought, I'll start my own company, you know, as well, you have a company, but you know what I mean? I'll start like a production company, an agency, I'll have other people so that we can take all these jobs on.
But you didn't?
Kate Taylor: So, yes, it's really, it's a really good question. The way that it works is... essentially, Feast Collective is like a very small production company. After my career of, you know, making lots of high profile stuff for Radio 4, lots of docs, lots of award winning things on a kind of a huge range of subjects.
With the podcasting industry kind of going into overdrive and there being more and more stuff out there, I started making podcasts for you know, a range of clients for universities, commercial brands, newspapers, whoever it might be. And I still produce audio. I still, you know, I'm actually working on a series, called Legacy at the moment with Goldhanger Productions, which is very fun because Goldhanger are, going great guns and Legacy is a fabulous thing to be working on.
but at the same time, I started Feast and It works, as I say, like a, like a production company, a very teeny production company. But the word collective is a small, a small IOU, I guess. It's a, it's a small promise to myself that's a little flag about what the focus and point of this production company is, which is that we are not necessarily specializing in a particular kind of work.
We're not trying to grow hugely. The point and the focus of Feast is the freelancers that we work with. And everything that we do alongside the kind of traditional things of a production company is around building that network and supporting that network. So we do things like a regular coffee drop in session on a Monday morning via Zoom.
so that our freelancers from, you know, as far afield as Liverpool or Cornwall or, you know, God forbid, South London, you know, can, can drop in. We can start the week with a coffee. It's a place for networking, brainstorming, whinging, talking about what you got for Christmas, you know, whatever it might be, but it means that you're not on your own.
But we also do more explicitly work focus things. We run subsidized training. We run masterclass talks. We run brainstorming sessions when there are kind of commissioning rounds going on at the BBC and other things. we're currently, we've just started, something called the January plank challenge, where everybody has to do a plank every day and we all just text each other a little tick when, when it's done.
so, I mean, not, not a million miles away, actually, from some of the things that, that you do, with your community, Steve, And while, to get back to your question, while we are not technically, a collective in the sense of kind of sharing everything about the company at the moment, It's a, it's an aspiration and it reflects our priorities and hopefully, the sort of direction of travel.
So I hope that makes some sort of sense.
Steve Folland: I love it. It's, so it's part company, but it's part community to break up that isolation of freelance. It's part like networking with your peers as well. But would you. Perhaps pitch, you know, you've been brainstorming ideas, would you pitch and almost act like a company where you, would take on a project and you, Kate, would hire the people around you, in which case would you invoice, you know, as Feast Collective, or would you let everybody invoice separately?
Like, what's, What would that be like if you do that?
Kate Taylor: Well, for starters, we don't pitch. we might do at some point in the future, but currently we don't pitch. And the reason we don't pitch is we don't need to. And it is incredibly demanding of resources and emotional, psychological energy. I've spent so much of my career writing proposals, for programme ideas that, that take up huge amounts of time.
And then you get a two word. refusal with no, it's a, it's a very, it's one of the problems of the industry actually is, is that, you know, you will, you will kind of pour your heart and soul into developing an idea and then get a kind of a 'computer says no', answer without any learning, any sort of useful feedback at all.
and, and that is often a frustrating thing about, about the industry. I think it's probably changing, but, but it has been a, a a tricky thing. But the main reason that we don't pitch is that we don't need to. We get enough work coming in just from word of mouth and from recommendations. but what we do do, and this is actually a good example of how the collective works, is that, there are members of the Feast Collective who do pitch and they might pitch under their own company identities, for example.
And we will facilitate brainstorming sessions where people will kind of workshop ideas, say for a BBC Radio 4 commissioning round. And one of the great things about those is that they're very inclusive. So you'll have people who have very early career, people who've been doing it for 25 years, who can kind of share different perspectives, different expertise, and kind of help craft each other's ideas.
And then I will match make that person's idea with that person who wants to pitch it. and when there's a sort of alignment of the kinds of material that they make, We'll put them in touch with each other and they can pitch through another Feastie. So that's how that works. But, but when we do make projects ourselves as Feast, yes, I would, I generally exec them.
So yes, I would recruit, whatever's needed for the project, a producer, researcher, sound designer, editor, mixer, whatever it might be, manage them, liaise with the client, And, and yeah, handle the invoicing side of things as well, which I have to say is not my favourite part of it.
Steve Folland: So, whilst you wouldn't pitch for it, it may be that work does go through Feast itself.
Kate Taylor: Yes. So, for example, at the moment, we are about to start, production on the third series of the Farrow and Ball podcast. I'm sure your very discerning listeners around the world will know Farrow and Ball, the cult, paint and paper podcast. brand. and they came to us because we made a hit. we still make it actually.
We, a hit interior design show called The Great Indoors and they knew the show, they knew that we were making it. And so. They reached out to us and said, look, we've never made a podcast before. Would you like to make our first podcast? And we were like, absolutely. It's such incredibly rich territory.
And so we developed the first series, not last year, the year before, it's called The Chromologist. and it's a great show. And so that, that project came to us. I, put together a team to make it. And we developed the idea, the structure, the format, and we are, yeah, it's been going really well. We're in, we're starting on production for season three at the moment.
Steve Folland: That's so cool. So the, the feast and the famine fear has gone?
Kate Taylor: It never goes, Steve. It never goes. You must, you must know that. Don't tell me you don't suddenly wake up in the morning and go, Oh God, is it all gonna disappear? no, I think it never goes, but you, you get better at talking yourself down and you get better at, you know, looking back and saying, I've been here before.
I know how this goes. It'll be okay.
I do think that with the industry that I'm in, there's an enormous amount of change and flux and the audio industry and, you know, I thought when I left advertising and went into radio, I thought I was, you know, going into a tiny little sleepy backwater industry. and then podcasting came along and suddenly audio is cool and, you know, we've got work coming out and, and it's amazing.
And the way that the industry has kind of expanded and then contracted and changed at a rate of knots over the last few years is very exciting and sometimes quite nerve wracking. And you just need to sort of hold, hold your nerve. And, and pivot, I think, as well. I think probably like a lot of freelancers, I have a lot of different sorts of things that I do.
You know, I'm execing, execing podcasts. I'm organizing January plank challenges for the Feast Collective Network. I'm trying to get my head around the latest piece of tech, which is not my strong point. And every now and then I kind of, I need to, I need to step back and reassess and go, Oh, I haven't done, I haven't done some of that for a bit, or I'm getting a bit scared about doing that, or I'm looking a bit light on that and maybe I should, maybe I should do some more of that.
In fact, I was saying last night, I feel like I haven't done kind of frontline producing for a bit. I've done quite a lot of sort of senior execing. but the last
time I was the kind of lead producer on a major series was a series I made for Audible called Stories of the Stalked, which was about, about a woman's, sort of real life experience of the kind of horrors of being stalked. And we made a six part series about it. And it was very challenging for all the reasons that you might imagine.
but very fulfilling and really interesting. And that was a few years ago now, and I'm starting to feel like I should, I should, I should make a big thing again. Not least because one of the feasties was just had brilliant reviews for, for, a series that she's just released, on the Pitcairn trials, which is, which she made for a different company.
She didn't make it through us. but she's a member of Feast and she's absolutely made up about it. It's been, been doing really, really well. But interestingly, whenever shows are reviewed, they don't mention the producer's name, you know, they, they might mention the presenter, they might push mention the production company, but they generally don't mention the producer's name.
And so one of the things that I would like to do for Feast is, you know, get our social media a bit more geared towards publicizing when our producers do excellent things. even if they're for other people, which is one of the things that makes us a slightly odd production company because we're publicizing other people's work, but because it's, it's a Feast person's work.
So I, I kind of currently have always had this sort of tension between, Oh, I should have made the Pitcairn Trials to, Oh, we should really be working out a way where we can like, have a, you know, a structure where we can get more publicity for Lucy, for her brilliant Lucy Ditchmont, by the way. Well, we should get more publicity for Lucy Ditchmont and her amazing work, on the Pitcairn Trials project.
So, you know, sometimes I feel like I've got too much bubbling in my head, but I try and think of it as a good thing.
Steve Folland: And I just love, this, that sense of community within it though, this, you know, these people could be your competitors, put it that way.
Kate Taylor: Absolutely. But I think, I mean, I don't know if you've found this with, with making this podcast, but I think the audio community is perhaps because it's still quite a baby industry, but I think it's a very friendly, largely a very friendly, positive and supportive industry. You know, most of the people who are in this business are not in it to make a big buck because there aren't very many people doing that. We can't all be Steven Bartlett. And most people are doing this because they love it and, and, you know, respect other people who love it as well.
And also I think, I think there is increasing. awareness of how important community is. I think, I think of all the ways that the, that the world is going to hell in a handcart at the moment. I think there is a, there is a real acknowledgement of how important human connections and community are to quality of life.
And I think that that is something that's really changed over my career, actually. I think there is much more, much more priority given to, to living a good life with good people. you know, not necessarily, just making it at all costs.
Steve Folland: Speaking of living a good life, you mentioned work life balance earlier about rules and freedom.
How is it for you?
Kate Taylor: Oh, I think it's pretty good. One of the things I really like about freelancing is the flexibility. You know, I've got reasonably small children. I do school pick up and drop off most days. and that's one of the things that I love about my work. You know, I work from home usually, not always, but most of the time.
and I think sometimes Sometimes you need to be strict with yourself in terms of really focusing on, on a, on a project. You can, you can get too busy sort of flitting between emails and doing the washing up and then putting a wash on and then I'll just make a quick call. But when you've got to actually do a kind of in depth edit or a deep bit of research or whatever it might be, you need to be kind of about, about putting the, putting the personal life away.
because I'm sure it's familiar to everybody, but the, the boundaries between work and life blur in a way that can be very positive, but can sometimes, yeah, just, yeah, needs, needs, needs a firm hand sometimes, I think.
Steve Folland: Earlier when you were talking about how, you know, you might pitch for something and then you, you, and you put a lot of effort into that, and then you don't hear back how you deal with that rejection.
So the rejection that you might face along in your freelance career, how you've dealt with that, how you stay positive.
Kate Taylor: Such an interesting question, isn't it? Especially with ideas. They feel so personal, and so rejection feels so personal, it feels like it's a rejection of you. Tell you a story about, I, I used to produce a series on Radio 4 called Feedback, which is like the Points Of View for, for radio.
It's like the listener response program. And it's a really tricky thing to make because you are on the BBC making a programme criticising the BBC and trying to get interviews with people, about criticising the BBC or trying to get interviews with producers and programme makers and nobody wants to do it because nobody wants to be hauled over the coals.
But the producer that I was working on it with is a producer called Karen. And she used to do this thing and I, I didn't tell her about it for years, but we work together now. She's, she's in the Feast Network and I have since told her about it. But she just used to do this incredible poker face when things were going really, really badly.
Or, you know, a guest was kicking off or we were up against a deadline or something had gone wrong with the tech and we'd lost the whole program or whatever it might be. She would just have this sort of poker face. And I would tell, go home and tell my partner about it and weeping and you know, Oh God, it's so awful.
I messed up or this has been so stressful or I'm really worried about this. And Karen's just incredible. She's just got this kind of, she's just got this poker face on and we developed this, this term of 'Karen face', which is just how you deal with difficult people, difficult situations, rejection, horror, pain, sadness, and misery is.
I suppose it's a form of fake it till you make it, is that you just put on your Karen face, and you try not to take it personally. You just put the face on, the face takes it, the face is nodding, and you just put the feelings away and get on with the job. and I think I think there's something of that in the way of, I suppose it's about depersonalising the rejection rather than putting your bleeding heart out there for everyone to see and going, but this hurts so much, how could you reject me and my ideas?
It's just about going, Okay, next thing. Does that make any sense at all?
Steve Folland: Yeah, there's some Karens out there now who,
another thing I wanted to ask you is, because you mentioned awards.
Kate Taylor: So many awards, so many, just, they're just coming out of my ears.
Steve Folland: They're good insulation, right? how important you feel awards are or have been.
Yeah, the difference that they might make.
Kate Taylor: It's so interesting. So I think I was a bit naive about it. I won a program that I made with Whistledown Productions, called Letters from Guantanamo, which was about Sami al Hajj, only journalist and incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay, won a Sony Gold. Back when they were called the Sonys, which was the sort of the, the industry award.
And I just didn't really capitalize on it at all. I think I didn't know how, I didn't know that I should. It was quite a while ago and I sort of expected it to, I don't know, I expected sort of people to do that for me or people to just find me and I was sort of a bit pathetic about it. but equally, I think.
That was slightly symptomatic of, of how the industry was at the time. It was just a little bit more vague and I, you know, another program that I made won a New York festivals award, which again now, if I won a New York festivals award, I would be shouting about it everywhere. But I think there just wasn't, you know, LinkedIn wasn't really a thing.
Social media was much, much less self promoting. I think I didn't really know how to do. make a fuss about it. Whereas now How To Own The Room, which is a podcast that we make about women and public speaking. It was nominated for three independent British Podcast awards, Independent Podcast Awards, forgive me, in 2024.
And I instantly put the... You get a little, a little image, you know, a little icon. I put that on my email signature. I talked about it on Instagram. I talked about it on LinkedIn. and similarly, that program that I was telling you about stalking, you know, that was nominated for an ARIA. It was nominated for a Peabody award.
And again, I, I, you know, you feel like an idiot doing it, but, but there are platforms now. And there are ways of doing it. And there are tones of voice that you can use just to be very, I think the way to do it is to be quite straight and not to do the kind of humble, I'm so humbled and honored, but just to do the look, this is great.
I'm really pleased. Look. And so I'm much better, I think, at doing that now. Your question was about whether it matters and I think lots of things win awards that aren't any good, so there's that. but it boosts your profile, it helps put you in people's heads, and it helps them give you a second glance.
So it just puts you on their desk, and it makes them go, oh, might be worth investigating. And I think that is useful. But I also think there is a... The recognition is nice. You know, a lot of what people do in this industry is toiling away by themselves on things that they care enormously about that then sink without trace.
And I think, I think having some people clap you and give you a bit of plastic is really valuable. And you know, I'm absolutely not gonna, not gonna knock that at all.
on the awards thing and, and on, I suppose on that, on that note of profile, one of the things that we did at Feast a few years ago, which I'm really proud of, is we lobbied slash worked collaboratively with the, the British Podcast Awards to launch the first ever climate podcast climate award.
And the climate emergency is something that I'm, I'm really, really, scared about. I mean, as I'm talking to you, there are, there are wildfires raging in, in California. we saw the horrific floods in Valencia last year. You know, the, the, the claws of the climate emergency are getting sharper and closer and, we should all be doing everything that we can, including as communicators and freelancers in our personal lives, in our work lives, in our lives as citizens and voters to try and get some handle on this runaway global heating. And one of the things that I thought that we could do at Feast was to get an award that would recognize and reward and promote the excellent work being done by podcasts in the kind of climate, environmental sustainability space.
So we, we bothered the British Podcast Awards. To give them their credit they were really receptive and interested. We did a survey, we put together a case, and they launched the very first ever BPA Climate Award. And then all the other awards followed suit. So there are now sustainability awards and climate awards and things coming out of the woodwork, which is absolutely brilliant.
And that's something that I'm really proud of. And that, that, that is a thing that awards can do is raise things up, raise the profile of things, bring, bring things to people's attention.
Steve Folland: Also, by the way, just as a sidebar, your email signature use is excellent. You explain, not everyone's going to get an email from you.
What do you, what do you have in your, in your email signature?
Kate Taylor: In my email signature, I'll read it out, it says, Fly less. Eat less meat and dairy, change to green energy, and check out if your bank is funding fossil fuels. And the green energy and the bank are hyperlinks. And the reason I put that on there is that the climate emergency is huge.
It's huge, it's scary, no one wants to think about it, no one's quite sure what to do. And there, in my email, are the some really simple, concrete things that you can do today. Maybe you could put some links in the show notes, Steve.
Steve Folland: And then you have your business stuff beneath that. I like, so that's at the top and then, and beneath that.
Kate Taylor: I like to integrate them and. You know, one of the things that we do at Feast is that we try and put our, put our money where our mouth is and, you know, I will give discounted advice and work to people making podcasts in the climate and sustainability space. I'm in fact about to do a development workshop with a, with a new client next week, who's in this space and I've already given her a bunch of stuff for free and will continue to do that because I want to make life easier for people doing the right thing.
But also it means that we say no to stuff sometimes as well. you know, I've been asked to do things which involve flying and it's hard to say no, and I'm not saying that I would never say yes, but I think it's all too easy for people to go, Oh great, yeah, trip to New York, rather than going, Do I need to waste all of that carbon?
there's about a squillion excellent producers in New York and I could you know, remote produce them and we could do it that way and feel better about ourselves. So.
Steve Folland: Nice. now, Kate, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Kate Taylor: So I think, I think probably the thing to say would be it's okay to muddle through and you're doing a better job than you think you are.
But those are quite sort of generic things that we all need to hear. But I thought maybe, , The piece that I would leave you with was something that I say to my kids all the time, which is from, a poem called Desiderata, which was written a long time ago and is now a very cheesy, a cheesy poem that features, you know, grace's tea towels and chocolate boxes and things.
But I happen to love it and find it to be very full of wisdom. And the two phrases from there, which. I reach for regularly. I will say to my children, 'many fears are born of...', and they will say, 'fatigue and loneliness'. Shut up, mummy.
But the line is, many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness and I think that it's important to remember that when you feel horrible and awful and dreadful, it could just be because you're tired and it could just be because you need a collective around you.
You need a team around you. You need someone to listen to you and, give you a helping hand. That's the sort of positive thing I think about, about other people. And then the other line from the Desiderata that I reach for is to sort of remind you of your place with respect to other people.
Because I think often in freelancing, you're working so alone and comparing yourself to others. And the line is, 'if you compare yourself to others, you may become vain or bitter. For always, there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself'.
And I just love that because there are moments when you're like, my God, that person is rubbish.
I'm amazing. And then there are equally those moments when you're like, everyone is wonderful and I am awful. And just to be reminded that those two things are both a bit true and both not that true at all. And the fact that they kind of cancel each other out and become irrelevant and you should just do you and carry on is very, very relevant I think to to freelancing.
Steve Folland: Wow. What a way to finish. And you can tell you hung out of Radio 4 a lot. We got poetry to start kick off 2025. Kate, thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
Kate Taylor: Thank you so much, Steve. That was so much fun. Good luck.
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