Voiceover Emma Clarke
About this podcast episode…
VOICEOVER ARTIST EMMA CLARKE
Emma Clarke is a freelance voiceover artist, composer, and writer based in Manchester in the UK. You don't get to have a 35-year journey of self-employment without learning a thing or two. A lot to share in this conversation, not just plenty of laughs.
For starters, Emma emphasises the importance of client management, getting clear briefs, and managing expectations.
A key focus of our chat is Emma's systematic approach to business strategy. She conducts monthly "weather reports" to analyse trends in her personal life, work, and the wider world. This practice, along with quarterly and annual reviews, helps her stay agile and adapt to changes in the industry.
Emma shares her experiences with various marketing channels, including LinkedIn, Facebook, and her Substack podcast. These efforts, particularly her podcast, have led to unexpected work opportunities, sometimes years after initial connections were made.
And, yep - we had to bring it up. With AI unavoidable in the voiceover industry, Emma stresses the importance of being nimble and looking for adjacent opportunities. She advises us freelancers to focus on our unique skills, interests, and experiences to create new income streams.
Throughout her career, Emma has weathered various economic storms by focusing on customer service, adapting her business model, and diversifying her income streams. She emphasises the importance of being aware of subtle economic shifts and being ready to pivot when necessary.
So much good stuff in here and so much fun too. Whatever business you're in, it's all about the being freelance. Enjoy!
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from EMMA CLARKE
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and freelance voiceover, composer and writer Emma Clarke
Steve Folland: We are off to Manchester to chat to freelance voiceover, composer and writer, Emma Clarke.
Hey, Emma.
Emma Clarke: hi, thank you so much for having me.
Steve Folland: so much for doing this. As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance? Um,
Emma Clarke: From being 17 years old. I was in the middle of my A levels and I knew that I wanted to be self employed because the stuff that I do, you know, I write and I record stuff. There wasn't really a job. that would enable me to do all the things that I really wanted to do. So I knew that I had to create my own job.
So I set up a business and then I finished my A levels and then was doing the business and that was it. I've never had a salary from anybody. I've always been self employed and I'm 306 now,
Steve Folland: I was going to say, look, it's rude to ask a lady, but I can ask you this, how many years have you been self employed?
Emma Clarke: over 35
years.
Steve Folland: Amazing, right. Was there people in your life who were already running a business? Like, what was your inspiration? Because that's quite a leap to know what you want to do and then think, Yeah, I'll just invent it
myself.
Emma Clarke: no, no, there wasn't. My dad was a policeman and my mum at the time was a Tupperware representative. But no, there was nobody. I think I just wanted to be in charge of my own destiny.
I didn't want somebody else telling me what I should be doing. And more than that, asking me to do something in a way that didn't feel natural to me, didn't feel right, that just didn't sit well. Critics might argue that I'm a bit of a control freak. I would challenge that, I do like being in control of my own destiny.
And when I can see what's happening in the zeitgeist, when I can see what's happening in the economy, when I can see what's happening with new technology, I want to be agile enough to pivot and respond to that. And if I was employed by somebody, I don't think I'd be able to do that. So I've always wanted to be a bit of a lone wolf.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Okay, what were you doing at first? Was it voiceover? Like, how did you get your first clients, what did you do?
Emma Clarke: the first thing I did, well, just rewind a bit. I started off in my earning money life recording stuff for the BBC. So I was recording quite high brow poetry and prose for BBC Radio 4 and then Radio 2 and I was also doing some light entertainment stuff as well. And quite quickly, I got involved with a sketch show on Radio 4.
So I was already sort of in the world of recording and voicing, and I knew that I wanted to write and perform. So I set up a business with a partner that specialized in creating training playlets for businesses and services. So effectively, I was a dramatist and a performer. So I'd work with the training manager or the HR person or whoever it was within an organization to look at what their training objectives were and then I'd create a script out of that and then we'd go along on the day and perform it live in front of the delegates and then we'd improvise with them as well.
And we did loads of stuff, I mean really really interesting stuff around personal communication. So there's lots of customer care, there was lots of sales skills stuff, there was lots of anti aggression and violence. We did a lot of work for local authorities, hospitals, public bodies. We did interview techniques with the police.
We got the contract to do all IBM's sales training. We worked with BUPA for Legal And General. And I just rang these people up. You know, when I think back now, the chutzpah that I had as a kid. You know, I just, I just called them up and I said, look, this is what we're doing. It works really well. Can we just come and show you what we do?
And so we came and did them a bit of a demo and they booked us. They just booked us. We had great recommendations. And so I did that for seven years. And it was brilliant. I learnt a lot. I mean, there was some stuff, looking back, my God, the thought of doing it now, because I've got kids, the thought of doing the kind of stuff that I did then, like we did a lot of work for the special care baby unit at Bradford NHS Hospitals Trust, and telling parents bad news, and teaching all levels of hospital staff, dealing with people who've just heard bad news. That was another big part of our work. And, for hospices, we did lots of dealing with people who are dying and their relatives. So it is really gutsy, meaty stuff that we were doing. And it was incredibly fulfilling, but my life then moved on and I became a full time voice actor.
Steve Folland: Crikey. What did you learn most from that experience? That early running a business experience? Do you think then that you took forward?
Emma Clarke: Think the most important lesson I took was about client management. And that is, getting the brief is everything. Making sure that you're asking the right questions at the brief take. Making sure that expectations are being managed on both sides. Making sure that, the communication is always open, that you know who the decision makers are, that the pricing structure is appropriate for the project.
So if it's scope creep as well, that's really what I'm hinting at, that when you start to do a job and they think, yeah, this is, this is great, let's do this and let's do this and let's do this. And then suddenly it's become something that's actually twice the size and they're expecting it for the same money.
I think scope creep. is, is a big thing when you freelance because the tendency is to kind of say yes to everything and please the customer. But it's not right for your business to do that. And I don't actually think that you win a lot of respect from the customer long term by doing that.
So defining the boundaries of the project was really important and the customer care, you know, being, being really good to work with. I think that's, That's the main thing. I think when you freelance, I had a conversation about this last week at a conference where there were loads of people there, different, different levels, all sorts of different backgrounds.
And they were saying, what is it that we buy really from people? What matters most when we're considering working with somebody, collaborating with somebody, hiring their services. And what everybody said is that the people that they choose to work with have to be good to work with. Sure, they have to be good at what they do.
Sure, they have to be efficient, but most of all, the interpersonal skills and just the relationship that you create for them was the most important thing. And I've certainly seen that in my work, definitely.
Steve Folland: So you spend seven years doing that. And then you go more into the voiceover or voice acting side of things. Did that change how you approached getting clients
Emma Clarke: It was a different world. But the same principles follow, you know. It would just be getting a good showreel together so that my samples were as good as they could possibly be. And then just approaching people, which always a bit heart stopping, but you've got to do it.
So I just approach people and say, this is what I do, here's my reel, and come and do a session for you and we'll see how we get on. That was always my approach. And then word of mouth kind of takes over because you know, it's a small industry, the voiceover industry. And it certainly was a lot smaller than it is now.
It's still quite small, but in terms of who knows who and who's worked with who and who's networked with who. So I just sort of rocked up and did my job and they liked it. And then word just got round. And then very quickly within a year, I was full time. So I had to kind of wave goodbye to the theatre company because I've done seven years there and then became a full time voice actor.
Steve Folland: Did you find that you had regular work or what you, you did amazing. It's what we like.
Emma Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what I needed, right? I had a mortgage, you know, I had responsibilities. I had to make sure that I had a regular income. I can't, I can't bear, I'm not great with uncertainty. Right. So I needed to know that the structure of my job was there and was reliable. And when I say reliable, what I mean is that I'd spread my risk across multiple types of customers and across multiple types of media and multiple sectors.
So that if one went belly up, I'd still have all this other stuff. And that's been my philosophy really throughout, that I've never put all my eggs in one basket. That gives me the fear. So I've always kind of spread my risk. My risk.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Okay. So we've got a long career and I mean that in a nice way. You're obviously still doing voice work now. So how have things changed in the intervening years?
Emma Clarke: massively, massively. A lot of that is because of technology. When I first started, you know, I'd be in my car driving from radio station to radio station to recording studio to recording studio. So I could start my day, I'm in Manchester, so I might start my day in Liverpool and then I might have to go over to Hull and then come back via Sheffield.
So I was on the road a lot at the beginning and then technology changed and ISDN came in, which meant that I could be in a studio and talk to my customers remotely and they could record me at their end, broadcast quality. And that would mean that I didn't have to be in my car for most of the day, which opened up my availability a lot more.
So I could work with more customers from places that weren't as accessible. I could work with overseas customers and then that opened up a whole other market. And then when broadband came in, that meant that we could send really high quality audio over the internet, which again opened up new markets.
So technology really has driven a lot of the innovation in the voiceover industry that I've seen. It's, you know, it's completely unrecognisable to how it was when I first started. Now, I'm here, my voice booth is there. And most of the stuff that I do is self directed. I get an email from a customer with a script, and I go and record the script.
I might query some pronunciations in there, just to make sure that everything's correct. Go into the studio, voice it, and then record the audio on my end, and then send it to them via WeTransfer. And that's how it goes. What that means is that a lot of my customers I haven't actually spoken to. Because it's all been on email.
So creating rapport with people over email is really important in my business. And creating a relationship with people that you've never met, that you've never seen, that you've never spoken to, is really, really important so that they trust you. So it's a change beyond all recognition. Really, has
Steve Folland: it's funny that one. I was going to say because so much of this early on was, you know, very relationship face to face. What, what have you
found works in terms of getting quite a good, but quick relationship online when you might not be speaking to each other, but also perhaps staying in touch with them,
staying top of mind with them.
Emma Clarke: I think the main thing is being personable. But yeah, you've got to be professional and you've got to be really efficient, which means responding to emails super quickly in my business because the turnaround time of jobs can be very, very quick. You know, for instance, I've got a session after I've spoken to you.
And it's for a big brand and I haven't received the script yet because they haven't finished writing it and it's on air tomorrow. So, you know, it's really really quick turnaround. So I think it's about written communication style that is super super important and just being really clear and if you can see in the job that you're being asked to do that there's a massive what I call a pothole in it where you can see that there's an error or you can see there's something that's going to trip us up down the line.
Like, for instance, if in a script, if somebody's got the date and the day wrong for a particular event or an offer, if somebody's got a website wrong, which often happens, or an acronym changes across the script and there's an error somewhere, spotting those and asking for clarification and correction then saves doing a remake.
When everybody might be up against it and running around like their hair's on fire. So I know that there are some artists who don't do that because they want to charge a remake fee. My philosophy is I just want to make my producer's lives, my client's lives easier. So just checking that everything is, watertight and then delivering when you say you're going to So sort of under promise and over deliver always, really. Yeah, I think a lot of it is in clarity of communication.
Steve Folland: So voiceover, but I also said that you were a composer and a writer. It sounds like, you know, being freelance running your own business has given you flexibility to follow your interests. So how have you done that over the years?
Emma Clarke: By a mix of determination and serendipity. So, for instance, when I was doing a lot of comedy for Radio 4, which I did a lot of before I had my kids I submitted some sketches to the producers and they then let me on the writing team. And then I started to do comedy and drama other people as well. And then writing articles I've written a couple of books and just, just thinking this is something that I really like doing.
I'll give it a go. And fortunately people have liked what I do. So having a plan, having a sort of direction of travel and then seeing what connections I can optimize without being sharp elbowed and pushy I hate that, it gives me the fear. Yeah, I guess being open to opportunity, I think.
Steve Folland: Right. How do you know what's a good opportunity and which one not to follow?
Emma Clarke: A lot of it is gut feeling. A lot of it is somebody's reputation, if you're thinking of doing a collaboration or working with them. Also the timeliness of opportunities that come up. You know, if somebody were to come up to me and say, I've got this great idea, it's this thing called My Space, you know, that ship's well and truly sailed.
So it's sort of being aware of what's likely to land. So I think that's a combination of kind of looking inwards to think about where you're up to with your own development, with your own skills, any gaps in your skills that you need to shore up and also looking outwards in what's going on in the world, what's happening in the zeitgeist, what's happening, what's happening, what the trends and just being aware of that and feeling it in your gut when you think actually, this is an inevitability that my industry, that my job, that whatever it is I do is going to go in this direction.
I've got to at least try and pursue it. And just being nimble enough to adapt and not being scared of change because change is inevitable. And I think it's really easy when you freelance to get comfortable, but if you get comfortable, something's going to come along, whatever it is, it could be a competitor.
It could be a new market. It could be technology, whatever it is, could challenge that comfort. So I'd say if you're feeling comfortable, be wary of that and always look to push. Always look to innovate and develop what you do.
Steve Folland: I love that. Yeah, you've, you've mentioned the zeitgeist and being agile a couple of times. How have you seen that? What have you put into action ?
Emma Clarke: Literally every month I do this thing just for me personally, that I call the weather report, where I look at the world outside. what's going on in the world outside. I look at what's going on in my personal world, I look at what's going on in my world of work, and I look at what's going on in my social world.
And I look for things that I can connect in a sort of mycelial way to just create connections with things that otherwise don't exist. And I do that every month, just to see the landscape . of my personal life, my work life, my creative life, and just see what opportunities there are for development or even stopping doing something because the time isn't right or that season is now over and just looking at different ways of working.
So that's something I do every month to check that I'm on track and then each quarter I do my own sort of review of what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. Is it giving me fulfillment? Is it working? Is it bringing in the money? Is it bringing new customers? Is it forward looking? And then. At the end of the year, I do a kind of annual review as well.
So I have quite a system because I'm a massive nerd, Steve. So I, I kind of look at things very systematically and then devise strategy around that. But if you haven't got that systematic built in way of reviewing what you do, I think it's harder because then... the other thing is that by taking that approach and working in a deliberate direction, rather than just being caught up And just like Flotsam and Jetsam just going in a particular direction.
This way I can choose and I can design my work, my business, in the way that I want it to go in. So I find that really, really useful.
Steve Folland: I love it. But how do you do that in practice? As in, are you taking, I don't know, do you schedule a morning in every quarter or, you know, you take a day out or
Emma Clarke: do. And I have, I have a mind map. template that I sort of follow, and I have a reflective journal that I use as well. So I can see what's happened in previous quarters, in previous years, in previous months, whatever it is. And so I can kind of track how things have developed. And if I've done what I've said I was going to do, because I, you know, it's important that I'm accountable, even if it's just to myself, then it's important that I follow through on commitments that I've made to myself.
So yeah, I use mind mapping and a reflective journal.
Steve Folland: You say accountable to yourself? Do you have any other form of accountability, I don't just mean to the taxman, but as in any other business, mentors or network that you chat to.
Emma Clarke: Yeah, I do, my assistant is amazing. She's just Ace and I've worked with her for seven years now and she's just brilliant and so I, I sort of share a lot of this stuff with her. I have a business mentor as well, who again, is fantastic, and I also have my academic mentors as well. Because I'm doing a PhD currently, so I have my supervisory team who help me as well and listen and guide me.
You know, my accountant is amazing because he, you know, he's paid to listen to all this drivel, isn't he really? I mean, I don't really share a lot of the stuff that I do with my friends. Because it just gets a bit narcissistic, doesn't it?
Oh, can I tell you about me and my world? It's just, it's just not me really. And I talk to my husband a lot about what I'm doing, because he kind of thinks in a similar way to me. So it's a kind of, it's a kind of range of people to whom I am accountable. And even just my best friend, my best friend, is just this amazing guy.
I've known him for over 30 years. And literally, we don't see each other very often. He's housebound. . But we share every day, literally every day, an audio letter. So I'll record something for him and he records something for me and we just tell each other what we're doing. And so I tell him, cause he's in the same business as well, so he knows what I'm on about.
So I'll tell him and then he'll say a few months later, so, you know, did you, did you actually do that? You've gone quiet on that? What are you doing? So I do have a range of different people . Different stakeholders really, I suppose who I can be accountable to. And my kids, you know, my kids, what can I say?
Steve Folland: Speaking of like trying things out, seeing where things are going. I noticed, but maybe you've tried other things that we can touch upon as well. I noticed that at the moment you have a Substack on the go. And when most people think of Substack they think of written newsletters and so on.
Whereas you've gone more down an audio route despite also being a writer. What's the thinking behind that and how are you finding it?
Emma Clarke: I love it. I love it. It's a very, very lo fi podcast, deliberately. It's literally just me riffing. And it actually evolved out of the audio letters that I send to my friend. Because I just wanted to talk as if I'm talking to him, just like a, a one on one thing where I just sort of share with everybody the kind of stuff that I do in my sound studio.
So that's voicing, it's writing music, it's podcasting, it's everything that happens basically here in this room. And I talk about loads of different stuff on there and I really like it. And what's astonished me, people listen, people like it , and it's actually got me a lot of work.
Which has blown me away, because I didn't really, I didn't really do it for that. I did it really for fun, because I just really like doing that kind of stuff. For me, it was a good way to sort of tie together everything that I do. But it has actually, and I can't really tell you yet, because it's not been made public, but I've got a really fantastic opportunity that's come out of that little podcast, which is, as I say, it's really super lo fi.
It's me, just me. talking like I'm talking to you now about all sorts of stuff. And I just really love it. Substack is an amazing platform. It's so flexible and so user friendly. I love it.
Steve Folland: So how long have you been doing that?
Emma Clarke: Quite a while now, certainly over a year, probably about 18 months
Steve Folland: And what's your like your commitment to that? How often are you creating?
Emma Clarke: A lot of it lately has been stymied by pressure of work, but I, I aim to put something out at least once a fortnight, hopefully more often when I can. But I really love it. It's
Steve Folland: And is it just an audience that has come through Substack's own, you know, growth web that it tries to do, or have
you, you've put it out there?
Emma Clarke: Yeah, it's a mix. I don't know. It's, I always feel a bit self conscious kind of sharing stuff of it. Just, I think a lot of people who are freelance feel this, especially when they're the product that they're selling. Sometimes self promotion for me can just feel a little bit icky.
Do you know what I mean? It's not something I find easy at all. And I let my website do a lot of the work for me. I do put, you know, updates on social media. I'm not on Twitter really anymore since the muskification of that platform.
I used to be on it a lot. I used to love it. It's just a dead shame. But I do a lot on LinkedIn now. And I found that really useful. I was a bit suspicious. I just thought it, you know, the kind of people who get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and they go for a run and they do the yoga and they do And I just thought that isn't, that isn't really me.
But it's lovely actually. It's good. And again, it's got me work. I have a Facebook page that's Emma Clark's diary that is just again, it's just a way of kind of tying in everything that I do. And I use that pretty much like I used to use Twitter. So I post up little updates of what I'm doing.
And Instagram, which I'm not great with pictures of myself, Steve. I'm not really a big fan. I have to kind of get over that hurdle, really. You know, I love audio. I like being hidden. I like, I like not being seen. So Instagram feels a little bit weird to me. But yeah, I do sort of share what I do.
And of course, Substack is a newsletter. So. platform So it gets sent into my contacts, my subscribers inboxes. So that's how it kind of
Steve Folland: Yeah, it's just that it's brilliant that it's bringing you work, which is always nice.
Emma Clarke: Yeah. Surprisingly, I didn't expect it.
Steve Folland: yeah, which makes me think, you know, like, is it new people finding you or is it a reminder to existing clients?
Emma Clarke: It's existing clients. I think, well, when I say existing clients, it's often clients that have not worked with for a while for all sorts of reasons. Who have then sort of been reminded of me and this particular opportunity, and I'd love to tell you about it but I can't yet because it's not, it's just not made public yet.
This particular opportunity, , I used to work with an organization 20 years ago as a freelance obviously. And in this organization, kind of very much in the background, was this intern who was in the room while I was doing what I was doing, the voice sessions, and then he got taken on as a producer.
And then last October, I got a message on LinkedIn from this guy who'd listened to my podcast, who said, I'd love to meet up with you and talk about opportunities about where I'm working now. And so we met up and. I'd love to be able to tell you, but I just can't yet. So amazing opportunities have come out of that meeting.
So the point is, is that, A, you never know who's in the room. B, it can take decades, decades for something to bloom and then be adaptable. So this opportunity is taking me in a, it's sort of an adjacent direction, but it is very different and it requires a different skill set, which is. It's really scary, but it's amazing.
And I just feel incredibly, incredibly fortunate to be able to do what I'm going to be doing.
Steve Folland: Brilliant. And I love that that's coming out of putting, you know, well, putting something out there, but actually you're using your voice in it, which is clearly a key part of what you do as well. And as you say, okay, maybe you don't want to be putting your face all over Instagram, but just don't bother.
You're putting,
Emma Clarke: exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Do what's right for you and what's true to you. Cause I think that's the thing with social media, with everything, really. You have to be authentic. You have to be your true self because people can see through it in a heartbeat if you're not. And I think especially, you know. Since the pandemic, people are sick of, you know, bollocks.
They don't, they don't want flim flam. You know what I mean? They just want natural, real people. And I think that's me. I can't, I can't pretend to be something I'm not is the point.
Steve Folland: When you're talking about, you know, you're sitting there with your mind map and reading the weather of your career, on the horizon, huh, keeping the metaphor going, I see a cold front of AI coming in the direction.
Right.
How, have, you know, you've talked about, you know, not being scared of change and stuff, but how do you approach that, I guess?
Emma Clarke: I think you have to be very, very realistic. You have to realize when the industry that you're working in is changing beyond all recognition. And the opportunities that were available to you are no longer just not available because it's been taken over by AI. And I think that's going to happen to lots and lots of people in lots of lots of different ways.
And what that means, is you've got to be nimble, you've got to be agile, you've got to look for other opportunities that open up. So it's looking for ways to stay freelance, stay profitable in ways that are adjacent to what you currently do. You can't be on a tram line. You can't be unaware of what's happening around you because you'd just been left standing.
The world is moving incredibly, incredibly fast. And AI is a very real and present danger, I think, to lots of jobs and occupations. Lots of opportunities are closing.
And I think you've got to be awake to
Steve Folland: So what do you focus on positively with that in mind?
Emma Clarke: For me, it comes back to thinking about my skills. What do I do? What do I do well, where are the holes in my skill set? What am I interested in? What experience do I have? And then again, using a sort of mycelial thinking, looking at how I can web all that together. and see what opportunities come out of that thought experiment.
What connections can I make? What other ways of making a living can I create? What opportunities am I missing when I've got all the ingredients in my skills, interest and experience and my connections as well? How can I bring those together in a sort of alchemical way and create a new income stream? And I think that's what a lot of people are going to have to do.
Steve Folland: these Times are one time of many that you've gone through. As in, if you've been working for 30 odd years self employed, there's been a lot of financial cycles. There's been a lot of global up, you know, like in the moment, it can always feel like we're living in the most scariest point and then you look back and you think, Oh, actually that was pretty bad.
And then that one was bad, but you've actually been running a business during all of that as well. Like how have you kind of weathered those storms and sort of see that side of things.
Emma Clarke: I think when times have been really tough economically and this is external forces beyond my control that have borne down on my business and caused contraction in the economy, which obviously means that I've got to adapt my business to stay at the same level of profit that I have done. So, there's lots of external forces.
I always just come back to first principles really, which is customer service is always absolutely primary. But then again, just being aware of how to adapt, how to diversify. But customer service and being great to work with and delivering well ahead of time, on budget, doing everything that you possibly can without being a total doormat, is absolutely essential.
But it, it takes, I have to say it takes a lot of courage to sort of stop doing what you're doing and think, okay, things, things are really changing. Like with the pandemic, it was obvious that things were really changing because it changed for all of us. So in a way, for me, it was kind of easier to adapt to the pandemic because it was a collective experience going through this massive seismic change.
Whereas with other economic shifts, it sometimes can be a bit more subtle. But that isn't to say that you shouldn't be just as aware of it, which is where the, weather the report thing that I do comes in, just kind of looking at it, but basically it's first principles, customer care and delivering a great product or service.
Steve Folland: Okay Emma, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Emma Clarke: I'd say, as long as you do your best, as long as you stay awake to what's happening around you, everything will be okay.
Steve Folland: Emma, it's been so good to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time and all the best being freelance!
Emma Clarke: Thank you very much indeed. Thanks for having me.
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