Brand and Web Designer Kayleigh Hall
About this episode…
BRAND & WEBSITE DESIGNER KAYLEIGH HALL
For a long time Kayleigh didn’t even see what she had as a ‘business’.
She was trading time and skills for money.
But a few years ago she embraced outside help. Coaches. Group coaching. Working with a strategist, a photographer and copywriter. She polished her brand and found her niche. With this new confidence and focus, her rate quadrupled. As did her satisfaction. Working with clients with the right vibe for her and them.
She wasn’t an island. With help, her business thrived. And she was Queen of Proposals.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
QUEEN OF PROPOSALS
After conversations and a bit of ‘education’, potential clients naturally ask ‘what do I need to do?’ Kayleigh can then audit where they’re at, see what’s missing, what needs to be made…
“ I am Queen Of Proposals. It's never sleazy. It's always for a place of actual need. So I lay it all out. I tell them this is what I think you need to do and this is why - so they make that decision for themselves.
If the budget isn't there then at least they have this on their radar. They'll know that's still work that they do need to do and whenever they're able to afford it then they can go and fulfill that... Yeah I Love proposals.”
CREATING PACKAGES
By focussing on working with a particular set of clients, Kayleigh started to recognise the problems they had and how she could solve them. This process allowed her to create repeatable packages, making proposals and pricing much easier…
“If I keep working with that type of person then I can almost easily prescribe what's needed. Hence the packages are easier to put together when I've got a set audience that I like to work with - the type of client they fit into the package. The package works for them.
I'm like, okay that's the problem I want to solve and this is something I've already formulated to solve that problem.”
GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS
One of the benefits of freelancing is working one-on-one, direct with a client. Which means the relationship is really important. For Kayleigh, recognising a great ‘vibe’ before she even starts working with someone…
“Really good communication. Two way. When you can really vibe with someone, when you get on the call and you've got something in common and you can have a relaxed chat, an easy conversation. There's a understanding of each other.
That is such a beautiful thing and you can't always choose that in an agency set up. You can’t. It's harder to pick and choose the kind of people you work with.
So that's really important to me, just have some commonality and some mutual understanding and good energy exchange. If I put a little joke in the email, it's not gonna go the wrong way...”
REVITALISING HER BRAND
Kayleigh gained confidence and clarity from working with a brand marketing strategist, photographer and copywriter. All together, she felt able to increase her prices by four fold…
“To put the prices up so much, I think it needed that polished look.
I needed to feel like, if I was going to ask someone for X amount of money, then they can visibly see that I'm worth making that investment in before they decide to click through and have a chat.
Because I can explain how things work and how it's beneficial, but people have got to want to trust you enough to click through and even do that.
So that's given me confidence to do that and lots of clarity as well. Just having a clear understanding of how I can show up in the kind of work that I do and who I work for. It's been Incredible. Big wins.”
WORKING WITH COACHES
Kayleigh worked with a business coach and had great results, followed by group coaching and… basically she’s found the help she’s needed in the form it’s needed at the time she needed it…
“I start a journey, I work through something with that person and then it comes to an end. Then the challenge is shifted now because that challenge has been dealt with… Then I've hit another road block, where before I would have tried to figure out how I can just keep bashing down that wall - and you can't do that on your own. Sometimes you need small skills, you need outside knowledge.
Do not be an island. Lean on other people when you need it. There are people that can help you get through a challenge and it doesn't have to be so lonely and all on your own shoulders. That’s been the biggest thing yet.”
“Help is good.
Doing it all on your own, the hurdles will be a lot harder to get over - so asking for help at the right time is massive.”
Brand & Website Designer Kayleigh Hall
More from KAYLEIGH HALL
Hall Creative Website
Kayleigh on Instagram
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Brand & Website Designer Kayleigh Hall
Steve
How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Kayleigh
So I was working for… Do you remember Orange? Before EE?
Steve
Oh yes, the mobile phone company.
Kayleigh
I adored it. I lived there. I did a lot of hours. Making a lot of money doing all the sales and then I had a baby and then I decided I'm so obsessed with the POS that I'm gonna go to Uni and study design. POS is ‘Point Of Sale’ - all of the shiny stuff, all the labels and the signage and all of the marketing materials. So I went to uni, I didn't go back after maternity leave I was like, I need to do something else now.
And with a small human after you finish uni doing an internship isn’t viable. You need money. I can't be working for six months for free. Also, it was the 2008 recession. Awful timing. Job opportunities were tiny. The Midlands (where I live in the UK) is already quite a small place and you can imagine the creative community is really quite small. There are few agencies. Lots of little print shops though. I thought, well if I learn print then I can go and do that. I actually ended up getting scouted and did a few months in a design agency after uni. So I went and did a few months in the design agency. And then I realized the account manager setup means that I don't have a close connection with the client, I don't kind of have a say. Usually the budget's really important which of course it is, but it's kind of all managed what the creative process is and then you're almost kind of told, ‘well this is what we're going to do’.
So there's not much room for you to be strategic and kind of open up the room for a challenge with the client and all of that stuff. I love to think outside the box and be really strategic. So I knew that I didn't want to stay in the agency setup.
Then, I had another baby and I decided do you know what? I'm just gonna go freelance because in the design 9 to 5 I'm coming home really late, I'm missing the school run in the morning, I'm not present, I'm not able to do the goodnight routine - I’m traveling home and I'm missing so much so I needed more of what they call work life balance, which also feels like a myth. So I decided actually after a year of doing maternity time I'm gonna just start on my own.
And all it took was a Facebook post and I was like ‘guys, I'm offering design now…’ And I picked up work that way and then it just snowballed. I just got word of mouth and yeah, I'm still here nearly ten years later.
Steve
And the Facebook post was just to your like friends and family?
Kayleigh
Literally just a friends' post and there was a local guy who was running a local networking type group. So he had some work for me. There were lots of opportunities in that group as well. So I started to get known in the area. And I picked up some more work on a retainer basis which went on for 5 years with really high-end restaurants/ luxury catering/ fine dining - there was just so much to do all of the time that that's what I ended up doing for a very long time. I was just picking up the retainer work and then other little print briefs would come in, I'd be doing smaller jobs.
But then I felt a little bit internally sad because I was like, it’s the same - I’m churning now, I'm just doing the same churning churning churning. Word of mouth. It's kind of winging it. There wasn't much strategic thinking and setting up for business I just knew that if I make things, I can get paid.
I didn't think much further about marketing strategies for myself. I didn't even consider this is a business. I just kind of kept it ticking: money for time.
Steve
So at what point did that start to change? As you say it's all going swimmingly to a certain extent, as in your work keeps coming you way without you having to really go out there and market yourself too much. But I introduced you as a branding, website designer - whereas it sounds like you're still doing quite a lot of print stuff at this point.
Kayleigh
I was. Until about maybe three years ago. When you are given a print brief, usually someone says Kayleigh, I need a flyer. Things have gone quiet I need interest, I need to get people through the door. Can we just get this designed and out there now? It's a bit like it can sometimes be like putting a bandaid over a…. what's the phrase? Over a puddle?
Steve
You know what? I love that saying. I mean, a bandaid over a puddle would not work. I think if that isn't a phrase, if you've just made it up - that is the winning title of a business book. You know “You can't put a band-aid over a puddle” - I would pick that book up.
Kayleigh
Right? I'm going to trademark first - we'll talk money later Steve, we’ll split down the middle. What is that phrase? Do you know it?
Steve
No - we know we know what you mean though. So… people having fliers made…
Kayleigh
Yeah, so sometimes the problem is a bit deeper than that. Sometimes they're not connecting with their audience or maybe the wider marketing strategy isn't the one. They're just kind of winging it. So to put a flyer out - the people that you want to connect with, are they in the places where you're going to leave these flyers? Are they going to respond to the flyers? Does it work? What's the messaging?
And often if the budget is for a flyer, there probably isn't much room for exploring all of that work and sitting down with a marketing specialist and brand strategist and kind of really spending a lot more time opening that up. So I felt really unfulfilled for a while of just doing the kind of work that I in my heart, I felt like this will help a little, maybe you'll get 5 % return of whatever you spend, but it's not really helping you. You're still gonna be in the same place. And I'm a bit of an empath, I need to see people win. I need to see people feel better, do better. Otherwise I also feel like I haven't done an effective job.
And what I studied at uni was't the actual design. I didn't learn how to make logo or how to make things at uni. I studied Visual Communication. So it's helping bridge the gap between what you're trying to say and what the people who you need to say to, how they understand it. So it's all of the communication piece. How do we make it work visually? So the connotations and all of the kind of the science behind communication is what I learned. So I'm desperate to apply this to work now and I can’t. There's not much room or budget for me to do that. So I thought, how can I do this at a bigger scale?
So websites seem to make more sense. So I learned web design myself. Started wireframing and picked up some smaller projects. People who would let me go crazy and kind of give me the rein to just work it out as I go along. And that happened for quite a while. Did a few websites, did my own that worked out quite well.
So I then just started offering website design and that went swimmingly. I was able to do more strategy and work out the user journey. How do we get people to land on the website and take action? How do we make it compelling? How do we help people make good decisions with what you're telling them that you do? How do we show your value? All of that stuff, everything in between. How do we get them to press the right buttons? How do we show your personality?
And naturally branding is a large part of that. If you haven't kind of wrapped up who you are in a shiny bow and presenting yourself well and using tone of voice and the right colour schemes to evoke the right emotion - then the connection doesn't work. You can put all of this stuff on the website. But if the brand connection isn't explored and it's not there, people can't make that connection for themselves. There’s no way for them to think, okay, this is for me, this speaks to me and I want to work with this person.
So all of that stuff, I'm able to do with the brand and website design and that was a massive pivot. Maybe 2020, I stopped offering the print design as a thing by itself though I'd offer it to branding clients.
Steve
How how did you make that pivot? Because you said, ‘oh you know I started experimenting with some websites…’ But if someone’s coming to you for a flyer, are you persuading them? Or is it referrals over time? How did you get those ideal clients?
Kayleigh
Yeah well, all those years at Orange, I learned a thing or two about sales. I’m not a sales machine, I don't love doing sales, but I do know how to help people see…
If I know that actually there's a massive benefit of you doing all of this strategy work first and really understanding exactly what the goal is and how we're going to get to that goal with the design, then this is what you really need to… Because it's genuine, I’m not doing it to make money.
I genuinely see that need for it and I could show them that need in that conversation. And usually people say ‘oh I didn't realise all of that work is so important, I didn't realise that’s the missing piece.
So once they understand that bit and I give them a bit of education, that conversation is a natural one. Their next question usually - so what do I need to do? Then I can give my own audit: I'll have a look through, see what's missing, what physical things I can make - a website, or if they need a new brand kit or if they need some print pieces - I will be able to work out what they need and I can kind of give them a full on list. I am Queen Of Proposals. Queen of proposals - because it's never sleazy. It's always for a place of actual need.
So I lay all out and I tell them this is what I think you need to do and this is why - so they make that decision for themselves. If the budget isn't there, then at least they have this on their radar and if they don't do it with me I'm not gonna cry. I will be poor but I won't cry. But they'll know that's still work that they do need to do and whenever they're able to afford it then they can go and fulfill that and make all of the money. Yeah, I Love proposals.
Steve
I feel like I should ask the ‘Queen Of Proposals’ - quite a title - There's always a bit when you're doing a proposal where it comes to putting a price tag on it. How do you deal with that?
Kayleigh
So I now don't do a day rate or hourly. I have worked out how long it will take roughly and the value and I do… they call it value based pricing, but it's just a package isn't it?
Like these are all of the things that you need and it's gonna take me this time to make - this is what it's gonna cost including any other bits and pieces. So I just lay out exactly what's needed and I put the prices next to it.
So I usually work with people who are service-based providers. And they are usually operating online. So there's usually a set way that they work. There's a kind of way that they would do their marketing. There's a way that they connect with their audience. So I can kind of preempt that and if I keep working with that type of person then I can almost easily prescribe what's needed hence the packages are easier to put together when I've got a set audience that I like to work with - the type of client they fit into the package. The package works for them.
Steve
So actually you've gradually evolved a niche of sorts and having that has made it easier to know how long things will take, how much they will cost, as in this package for you - there you go - that’s what I reckon you need.
Kayleigh
Yeah, because I can kind of… I don't want to say ‘assume’… but because I can kind of guess the things that they're going to need, or usually the problems that they come to me with, then I'm like okay that's the problem I want to solve and this is something I've already formulated to solve that problem.
So usually it's like 'okay, well I've been working for 5 years this way. It's all going okay. But I'm just hitting a wall, I'm not finding the right people anymore or people are coming in and I'm getting a lot of inquiries but no one's taking it any further or people are landing on the website but they're not clicking, they’re having a nose but they're not taking action. What's wrong?’ That is the kind of person I love to work with because I can kind of I know… I land on the website, I can have a look straight away. These things are standing out to me. Maybe the brand’s a bit disconnected or maybe the buttons are saying the wrong words and it feels quite sales heavy and your audience don't want to be sold to - that fits into the package that I've spent a long time working out and refining so that I can make that process easier. I don't love the sales, so I like it to be an easy formula. So I'm not panicking every time someone asks me ‘how much is that then’?
Steve
You said earlier on about the fact that you missed the close connection with clients when you were working at an agency. So what do you think makes a good client relationship?
Kayleigh
Really good communication. 2 way. When you can really vibe with someone, when you get on the call and you've got something in common and you can have a relaxed chat - sometimes even, you know the fact that we've got school runs do in a few hours is a common ground and there’s an easy conversation. There's a understanding of each other. That is such a beautiful thing and you can't always choose that in an agency set up. You can’t. It's harder to pick and choose the kind of people you work with - it’s harder to have that agency over yourself.
So that's really important to me, just have some commonality and some mutual understanding and good energy exchange. If I put a little joke in the email, it's not gonna go the wrong way.
Steve
Now you trade as Hall Creative right? Have you always done that?
Kayleigh
Well that was the night that I decided, I'm just gonna do this. My son just turned one and I just sat at my computer and I thought, okay I'm gonna make a website - what should I call myself? Everybody has that challenge. What do you call your business? And I thought, well I'll use my name. My surname.
I couldn't think of anything fun and cool. And I think that also wasn't me. I come very straight - you know what you get, so I thought I won't add any fluff to it, I'll just use my name but I didn't want to use my first name. There's a song attached to my first name.
So, Hall Creative. It's also a small nod to my little granddad. My very cute granddad, he will be 90 on Christmas Eve. He's worked so hard when he came to the country from Jamaica and he has poured so much into me. We're really close. He used to pick me up every every weekend after work on a Friday and I would spend the whole weekend with him and we would just go and visit people and have hot chocolate. He would get me all the things I'm not allowed to have
So Granddad's very special to me. We’re not a massive family. So the name, it's quite special. So I thought if that's not a nice legacy to leave for him, I don't know what it is so, yeah, it's something to say granddad that I did it - I did it. You came here and you did all of that hard work and it went for something special. He’s so proud. He's such a workaholic and so am I - it skips a generation. My dad's good at you know, logging off and saying that's me done for the day but I've definitely inherited my granddads workaholic tendencies.
Steve
So when you said earlier, ‘work life balance is a bit of a myth’. I don't know, you’re almost smiling as you say it, as if maybe you don’t mind that you don't switch off.
Kayleigh
Yeah I feel like if you've chosen self-employment I think you go into it knowing that it takes up so much of your time having time to do all of the things the finances the accounting systems and filing, the marketing, all of these moving parts of your business that it doesn't leave you much time to do the actual work.
So five days a week if you're working like 10 to 4 that's not very much time. It's probably less than a 9 to 5 isn't it? So managing time has always been challenging. I have children. You know there might be a day where I go and watch a school play or something like that. So I find that catching up on the weekends and working the evening is a normal thing to do. And it's a joy for me. I love what I do. So for me, it feels like a bit of a special thing that I'm able to kind of choose when I can sit at my desk and get some more stuff done.
So it is a myth, worklife balance - I feel like it's every day you're pushing blocks so you’re choosing - Okay do I have a really untidy house today and get this work done, or do I catch up tomorrow and then give the house a really good deep clean - those kind of choices. What gives today to make room for the other thing to be done really well?
Steve
So you mentioned ‘the strategy’ like you didn't have a strategy but now you do?
Kayleigh
Yes, well I'm working on it. So through lots of really helpful Facebook groups I've made some great connections along the way and in 2020 I connected with a client who connected with a client who that client then turned into a business friend and a life friend, I've got really close with her. We've shared clients and everything but she also introduced me to a brand strategist. Now I do strategy. But the brand marketing strategy is a whole different thing. It's a massive beast. It's really deep. Really kind of picking apart the audience and who you are and what your purpose is and on a really deep deep level.
And I think the habit, for a lot of us designers, I shouldn't speak for us all but I will today - we will say ‘yeah well I just offer design, I'm a graphic designer, everybody needs graphic design’ or ‘I offer brand design, everybody needs that…’ So yeah, like I design for people, I design for anything. And also the scarcity of saying that I only design for this small group of people can feel like you're going to lose a load of work. But when I sat down with the brand strategist. She really helped me to understand why it's beneficial for me. Why it's going to help me.
And that's also at the time where there was a lot of resentment around the work I was actually doing and trading time for money so that started a whole series of events. So I did my core brand strategy with her and I worked out that you know - there is something special about me. I do have special sauce. I can show up as myself and I can speak as the way I speak and I don't have to say ‘we help’, I can say ‘Me, Kayleigh, I help’. And it felt so much more personal and purposeful as well. So I started there then I had connection with a copywriter who I've fallen in deep love with, Delia, and she wrote my website copy that went phenomenally and it only felt right to upgrade everything so I changed my branding and I had some photography done and… Yeah I’ve kind of been doing some other bits and pieces since I've been working on a brand marketing strategy. Oh what a beast. It's a lot of work - all this social media stuff doesn't make itself.
Steve
That sounds like a lot of investment even though. How did that feel?
Kayleigh
Yeah, well luckily those people that I worked with on the big things, expensive things - also needed what I had to offer. So I've been able to trade services. We’ve swapped like for like value, which has been incredible.
I couldn't have just ploughed £5000 into website copy and I probably wouldn't have done it to the degree that it's done. It wouldn't be as polished as it was because I would have tried to cut corners or find a way to make it more affordable. So I've been able to swap valuable copywriting for what I offer which is a website design - that straight swap was incredible. We're both invested in doing the best for each other and also you almost end up co-launching, you kind of finish at the same time and I've gone live, you've gone live. Let's have a party. It's been really nice to be able to do that and you end up on that journey with those people. So the trading, as long as it's like, it's great. It's wonderful.
Steve
Have you seen it make a difference to your business?
Kayleigh
Yes, I was able to put my prices up fourfold. Which is really scary money. I don't love talking about money. I've always been the kind of person to just be, okay with the little, like whatever comes in to cover off the bills or whatever is fine. Don't want to feel greedy that kind of habit. That kind of money mindset.
So to put the prices up so much, I think it needed that polished look. I needed to feel like, if I was going to ask someone for X amount of money then they can visibly see that I'm worth making that investment in before they kind of decide to click through and have a chat, because like I said, I can explain how things work and how it's beneficial, but people have got to want to trust you enough to kind of click through and even do that. So that's given me confidence to do that and lots of clarity as well. Just having a clear understanding of how I can show up in the kind of work that I do and who I work for. It's been Incredible. So yeah, those are the big wins for me.
Steve
Love that. Have you worked with anyone else? Or worked it out yourself?
Kayleigh
Absolutely not - because most of the time there's a meltdown. You know the burnout is there always if you're not careful. Maybe I'm overworking or I'm doing a lot of the wrong kind of work is coming in. How do I fix this? The very first stage was the coach. I had a business coach and I was like, I can't afford a business coach. But I found someone that was exactly who I needed. She helped me just feel a bit more confident in certain areas and sometimes you need to know that some of the decisions that you're making, they are okay to make - like actually I don't want to work on Fridays because I'm probably burnt up by the end of the week, and I want to cook an fill the washing machine up and do those things for myself because they're important to me before Monday comes and I'm back to it again.
So just sometimes someone in your corner kind of letting you know that it's okay to make those decisions. They're still like it's yes you are choosing yourself and you're choosing work and home and kids. It's still going to benefit work. You’re not doing something bad for your business. Sometimes the guilt is there and impostor syndrome and all of these isms and schisms that kind of can sometimes feel really challenging and heavy - having someone to pour that out into and just rationalise a little bit and work out ways that you can move forward with your own decisions.
Like no one's telling you what to do. It’s just you getting outside of your own head. Every few months have a chat with the coach and just when things are getting a bit heavy then get some clarity and just unclutter the stuff in the brain space. It gets a lot sometimes when you're working by yourself.
Steve
So when did that start?
Kayleigh
Late December 2019, 2020.
Steve
Right - So it does time with all of those decisions, letting the print side go.
Kayleigh
Yeah, choosing more time for myself. Because some of the smaller jobs, they take a lot more time to manage, so you've got a lot more communication. You've got more back and forth because they're usually short turnaround. So if you've got 10 small jobs on the go at one time and they all come back with ‘yep here's the feedback, we've got changes to make that’ - times 10 that can get really overwhelming and I feel like that didn't allow me to manage my time very well I was always kind of catching up and overlapping and Google Calendar looked like a colouring book - I had all these blocks telling me what I should be doing here and there - it ust felt really overwhelming. So I think just working at the, actually it's okay for me to work on longer span projects instead of doing the small things, because as much as I loved them, they weren't helping me at all. They were kind of having a detrimental effect on the way I was working and feeling about work as well. So I worked with the coach for nine months and then after that ended I felt so superchared I was like yeah I want to go and do everything!
So I then invested… oh that's another thing the coach does, like - spending money on your business. It's okay. You hold the purse strings really tight when you've kind of earned money from hours. Usually it's really easy to start hoarding the money. So just being reminded that actually you could put that back into the business, you can probably get a lot more back out.. That realisation came through the coach and then after working with that coach I joined a coaching program that was marketed at ‘ambitious creatives’ - I was like yeah that's a bit of me, I'll join that, that feels like me. That was really helpful.
And then I also worked with a therapeutic business coach, which I did this year and that's opened up some more personal things which have also helped give me more confidence in business again.
So they've all been helpful at the right time. I start a journey, I work through something with that person and then it comes to an end. Then the challenge is shifted now because that challenge has been dealt with, so you know I've started working through… then I've hit another road block where before I would have tried to figure out how I can just keep bashing down that wall and you can't do that on your own.
Sometimes you need small skills, you need outside knowledge. So the most powerful thing I think to come out of all of that is knowing ‘do not be an island’, lean on other people when you need it. There are people that can help you get through a challenge and it doesn't have to be so lonely and all on your own shoulders. That’s been the biggest thing yet.
Steve
That's so cool. What would you say you've found the biggest challenge of being freelance?
Kayleigh
Oh my gosh. Time poverty. So kids versus cooking fresh meals to be efficient with food and you know keep on top of the housework and all the school activities and then self-care… all of these things that we've got to do? How do you fit fit it all in? How how do people do it? So that's the biggest challenge. Just choosing the right thing at the right time. And making sure that things get done, the right things get done without burning out.
Steve
How do you know when you’re burning out?
Kayleigh
The biggest thing is… almost like a need to work more. I don't know if that makes sense? So when I start feeling like I'm really burnt out, I feel exhausted. I feel imposter syndrome is huge when it's coming - I don't know, I feel like it kind of opens the door. Exhaustion’s opening the door for all of the negative things to start creeping back in.
And I get really introverted. I don't want to go networking and I'm not doing much for myself. I’m skipping meals, eating at my desk, not popping out to go and have a nice walk - those kind of things just kind of fall to the wayside. And then sometimes a health crash.You know I’ve had a few health crises and they’re usually stress induced and the doctor will say ‘so how many hours are you sat at your computer?’ and when you tell them 16, they're like yeah okay, that might be why.
Steve
Kayleigh, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Kayleigh
Help is good. Having help is good. Doing it all on your own, the hurdles will be there, they’ll be a lot harder to get over - so asking for help at the right time is massive.
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