Market Researcher Jenna Kang-Graham
About this episode…
market researcher & SOCIAL MARKETER, HYUNJIN ‘Jenna’ kang-graham
When Korean Hyunjin, or ‘Jenna’ as she’s also known, met her American husband, she moved to be with him and needed to find work in small town USA.
Whilst blogging tips about international relationships, Jenna found readers started to approach her for help with their own written English requirements like cover letters and applications. Her freelance journey had begun.
Years later she joined Elance, that became Upwork, and worked her way up to be one of the top 1% professionals on the freelancer job site.
Her blog meanwhile spawned what is now the largest community for Korean/international couples. Currently based back in South Korea, along with regular clients on Upwork, her free community brings her plenty of opportunities as her members recommend her too.
Maybe Upwork doesn’t have to be a race to the bottom after all.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
PITCHING ON UPWORK
These days many clients come to her on Upwork, but Jenna puts some of her early success down to the effort she would put into every pitch for work on the freelancer job platform…
“I always customise a pitch for the client. Every company has different needs and they want you to be interested in what they're doing. So I always research the company, what their products/services are, who their customers are - so I have a basic understanding and then match that with my skill and my experience so they know what I can do, what I can bring to them. I always spent a lot of time customising my application.”
UPWORK ISN’T AlWAYS A RACE TO THE BOTTOM
Sites like Upwork and Fiverr often get accused of being a ‘race to the bottom’ as freelancers pitch lower and lower fees to win the work. But Jenna’s spent years on the platform and says that not necessarily the case…
“They need someone who can do the best in the work they need. So they are willing to pay high. They're not always going for the lowest cost freelancer. They're looking for people who can do the job. You don't need to lower your rate once you build a reputation and customer testimonials - that really helps you to still quote higher and get hired.”
FiLLING THE INEVITABLE FREELANCE GAPS
When there are gaps in her client workload, Jenna will take time to learn new things - to upskill. During covid, when her regular tourism client no longer needed her, she could pivot to e-commerce because she’d unskilled in that area…
“Sometimes as a freelancer there will be gaps. And in the past I just felt bad about that... Well, why am I not getting work all the time? But being a freelancer is being your own business. Any business has highs and lows. So if there's a low time, I just take the time to upskill myself… You can pivot anytime the opportunity comes because your skills are already upgraded.”
STRETCH YOURSELF BEYOND WHAT YOU CAN DEFINITELY DO
If you think you could do a job but don’t quite have the skills, Jenna believes you should still go for it. This way you’ll improve and become even more desirable…
“Some jobs you may not be perfect fit for, you may not have all the skills, but you still have something to offer based on what you already have. And then you learn new skills with each project, then your marketability will increase because you have another skill from your previous project. Then your skills keep building with each new project and you become better and better.”
A COMMUNITY THAT CAN BRING OPPORTUNITIES
Upwork isn’t the only place Jenna gets work though. The free community and blog she runs for Koreans in international relationships also brings her opportunities. Sometimes the members hire her, sometimes they recommend her…
“They know what I can do. I've been managing this online community for a long time and I've been writing a lot and they know what I'm capable of, so they recommend me. Sometimes they recommend me to the company they're working for. So I do some work for Korean companies through members…”
“ They are willing to pay high…
They're not always going for the lowest cost freelancer. They're looking for people who can do the job"
Market Researcher Jenna Kang-Graham on how Upwork can bring high paying work
More from Jenna kang-graham
Jenna’s on LinkedIn
Jenna on Upwork
Jenna’s Korean blog
Jenna’s community
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Hyunjin ‘Jenna’ Kang-Graham:
Steve Folland:
As ever. How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
I started as blogger. I just wanted to be helpful to people by sharing my experiences and knowledge and skills. So I started blogging tips about international relationships and how to learn English and how to use English. And as my blog readership grew, I start getting contacted by people and organisations to help them. Sometimes I was contacted by organisations so that I can contribute a weekly column on English learning and sometimes contacted by people who wanted my help with their English language résumés and cover letters and graduate school application essays and so on. So that's how I actually got started as a freelancer because people trusted me based on what they saw on my blog. And then I wanted to do more freelance work. So I search around and came across this platform called Elance, which has since become Upwork. And then on this platform I found amazing opportunities that I never imagined that I could get. And then I got a lot more diverse experience, and over time I became a top rated and expert vetted professional on that platform. I became top 1% on Upwork. So yeah, that's how I became freelancer.
Steve Folland:
So were you working when you started your blog?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
I'd just immigrated to the US at the time. I'm now back in Korea, but at the time I immigrated to the US and I just wanted something to continue my career. I had job in Korea doing online marketing. In America I wanted to continue a similar line of work, but at the time I just was kind of stuck in this small town in the US. So I started blogging to help people and then people started finding me on the blog and yeah, that's how I got started.
Steve Folland:
And was your blog in Korean or in English?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, it's in Korean. So at first I did a lot of translations and as I said, résumé writing and cover letter writing and graduate application essays. And that was successful. That was pretty much at the beginning of my blog writing. So I became a freelancer very quickly after I started blogging - about three months.
Steve Folland:
And just to put things in perspective, when was that?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
2008.
Steve Folland:
And you moved to America because...
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Because I met my husband who is American when I was in graduate school at Washington State University. So I met him in graduate school and I was in my master's programme and he was in his PhD programme. S o I finished two years early. So I came back to Korea after I finished up my degree and worked for this Korean NGO who used online marketing in their campaigns and YouTube at the time. And then I wanted to rejoin my husband, obviously, we couldn't live away forever, so that's how I immigrated to America and I wanted to continue to work.
Steve Folland:
So how did you get on with Elance, which is now Upwork - so let's just call it Upwork. What was your experience when you first joined that site?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
At first, I had no idea how to get started. I always wanted to use my writing skills. So I search for projects that allowed me to use writing. So I started with small projects and then one of the projects was doing market research that also used writing skills. You conduct research and you write reports. So I started with working with this company and I'm still working with this company eight years later. I'm still working with them <laugh>. So that's how I got started. And, and then I came across another client, a tourism marketing company. And I also ended up working with that same client for five years. And then a client who worked with me on that project, found me for a different project on the same platform, Upwork. So I continued to work on this platform and it expanded opportunity for me.
Steve Folland:
Was this the sort of thing where you would be on the lookout for people posting jobs and then like writing a pitch to them on Upwork?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
At first I had to promote myself because no one knows what I could do. So I looked for projects that I'm interested in or that fit my skillset, but now I've become a top rated professional, so I actually get a lot of invitations, Upwork, connect me with their clients and send me invitations. So I don't necessarily need to look out for them anymore. They find me and then send me invitations. If I wanna work on that project, I accept their invitation and apply and get the job.
Steve Folland:
When you were applying for jobs, what did you find worked in that kind of pitch process?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
I always had to customise for the client. Every company has different needs and they want you to be interested in what they're doing. So I always research the company, what their products are, because I'm a market researcher, I always research that company. So I search who they are, what their services are, who their customers are, so I have a basic understanding and then match that with my skill and my experience so they know what I can do - what I can bring to them. So I always spent a lot of time customising my application.
Steve Folland:
So how many years have you been on Upwork?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
2008 was when I started blogging and I went to Elance in 2014.
Steve Folland:
That was about six years in to being freelance then. So prior to the online job platform, all of your work was coming via blogging.
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yep, people still find me through my blog and ask me for help with their résumés and cover letter and essays and so on.
Steve Folland:
Did you have a bit on your blog that said, you can work with me or..?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, so I provided my knowledge. This is how you write résumé or a cover letter and I can help you with yours. So I promote what I can offer to them.
Steve Folland:
And how did you deal with invoicing? So a lot of this time you were in America. But a lot of your clients would be in Korea, right?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, at the time I just did it myself, everything. So that was challenging because I have to do all the work and do the invoicing and texting and everything I had to handle that was quite difficult. But when I came to Upwork, they kind of handle everything, invoicing, and I just concentrate on the work I love to do without dealing with the invoicing and pricing and all that.
Steve Folland:
If someone comes to you now via your blog and says, I'd like a service mm-hmm. <affirmative>, would you channel them through Upwork?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
No, because for my blog, it's for Korean clients, so I just work with them directly. So I just work with basically two different kinds of clients. Like from my Korean blog I work with them independently, but with non Korean clients, let's say a lot of American companies, then I work on Upwork, so I can handle everything on one platform.
Steve Folland:
With your blog, is that also, uh, a source of income for you?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Not the blog itself, that is to build a reputation in the industry. So it's not revenue generating directly, but it builds my reputation and then people find me. So it's like free marketing, free promotion.
Steve Folland:
How often do you post on your blog? Is it still bringing people to you?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Actually since I started working on Upwork, I just got so busy with client work, so I haven't been able to really manage my blog. So right now I'm more focusing on my client work than blogging, but that's how I got started - with the blog.
Steve Folland:
But despite the fact that you don't often blog anymore, it still brings people to you?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, because people can still find me through my blog. And then because I became so successful as a blogger in Korea, I also built an online community that's pretty large. So they also find me from my online community - members also refer to me to companies or people they know.
Steve Folland:
Oh, nice. So what's your community that you've built?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
It's for Korean international couples who are basically dating or marriedto non Korean people. So I have people dating or married to people from all around the world.
Steve Folland:
That's sweet. Do you mind if I ask how many people are in it?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Um, 13,000. It's actually the largest online community for Korea and international couples in Korea. And I was able to make actually a big social impact in Korea because Korea had some stereotypes about this multiculturalism people with interracial relationships and stuff. But with this blog and then this online community, I was able to empower people to speak up and now these internet relationships and international couples are widely accepted in Korea. <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
Amazing. Good for you. So when did you start the community?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
That was 2009 because as I said, I started blogging about international relationship tips and people started messaging me, seeking advice and then I realised we need some safe place for these kind of people. So I started this online community and started building and building and building and, and then because it grew and grew, Korean media found interest in us. So I did a lot of media interviews and me being in the public eye and on TV and newspapers, and more members in my community found the courage to speak up and share their relationships. And now it's like international couples are even admired.
Steve Folland:
Oh, I love that. And is it a free community?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, it's a free group, so anyone can join, but they need to be vetted that they have an international relationship.
Steve Folland:
Right. So how much time would you say you have to put into that?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
At first, I spent a lot of time, but because this became so influential, I also have other people to help manage the community for me <laugh>. So I don't need to spend very much time, maybe like 10 minutes a day.
Steve Folland:
So other people from within the community volunteered to help run the community?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah. Because they want to help each other.
Steve Folland:
And yet you are known within it to the extent that people will recommend you for work or come to you for freelance work?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, because they know what I can do. And I've been managing this online community for a long time and I've been writing a lot and they know what I'm capable of, so they recommend me. Sometimes they recommend me to the company they're working for. So I do some work for Korean companies through members.
Steve Folland:
Did you feel like you knew what you were doing business wise?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Um, not at the beginning because I was only in my mid twenties. I didn't really know what to do in the beginning, but eventually I just gained more experience in gain confidence and just kind of paved my way through it.
Steve Folland:
What would you say were the main challenges that you had?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Before I found Upwork, I constantly need to promote myself and that was kind of challenging because I want to focus on work I wanted to do, but I also need to spend a lot of time marketing myself and writing new posts. So I wanted to focus on the client work. So when I found Upwork, it was a really nice break because on Upwork, potential clients can see what I have done in the past and they can also see previous clients testimonials so they can see how other people saw me, what's their experience with me. So that was a really good break so I can finally just focus on what I love to do.
Steve Folland:
So if there's other people working on Upwork or other sites like that, do you have any tips on how to deal with clients that you've learned over the years? What works?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
I think when you get first get started, you need to build your reputation by building your work history on the platform. So in the beginning, you need to use the skills you already have. So you need to kind of write cover letter on Upwork or other freelance platform. You just write a kind of cover letter on the platform so people can see what you you have done and what you wanna do. And then with your profile completed, you need to search for projects you want, you may not be a complete match for a certain project, but you use your experience, but at the same time, you need to find a project that interests you. Some jobs that you may not be perfect fit for, you may not have all the skills, but you still have something to offer based on what you already have. And then you learn new skills with each project, then your marketability will increase because you have another skill from your previous project. Then your skills keep building with each new project and you become better and better. You build a better reputation, you build your work history, then your chance of getting connected with better clients, higher paying clients where you get higher and higher because you build your work history and testimonials. So you just need to get started with what you currently have and continue to find new opportunities to upskill yourself.
Steve Folland:
And how have you got on with the pricing side of things on Upwork?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
It's really based on how much I want a certain project. So if some projects are extremely interesting but the client doesn't have a big budget, then I lower my rate because I want to get that experience. But some clients, especially enterprise clients, have big budgets. So I just say this is my rate and then they go with that price.
Steve Folland:
You know, some people are sort of sceptical about those sort of sites. I've spoken to lots of people who've had lots of success with them as well. But one of the reasons they're sceptical is that they worry that it's kind of like a race to the bottom. When you're pitching against other people in price, everybody is maybe pitching themselves at less and less and less in order to get the work. I mean, you've obviously been on there a long time, so what's your experience?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, it's going back to what I previously said - you have that work history built up and your customer testimonials, then, people can see that you have that experience and you have the skills. They don't always go for the most affordable freelancer. They need someone who can do the best in the work they need. So they are willing to pay high. They're not always going for the lowest cost freelancer. They're looking for people who can do the job. Yeah. You don't need to lower your rate once you build a reputation and customer testimonials really help you to still quote higher and then you get hired.
Steve Folland:
Yes. So it's about having confidence in what you offer and that your platform reputation backs that up as well.
Jenna Kang-Graham:
And obviously they can see what previous clients thought of my work. They may be their competitors. So they trust you because some other company already vetted you.
Steve Folland:
And have you worked quite nomadically over those past 14 years? I mean you were in the States at one point, you were in Korea, but have you travelled the world as well?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yeah, I toured Europe and some other Asian countries because I could work anywhere I wanted - I could work while I'm travelling. So I remember I went to Hong Kong on our fifth anniversary. So I was in a Hong Kong coffee shop and working for this tourism client in the US. So that was awesome. <laugh>. Actually just recently, I actually took a trip to the US to attend the wedding of my mother-in-law, but this time I just wanted a clean break. So I negotiated with my current client that I want to take this two weeks off, and I came back after my vacation and returned to work. That's the freedom of freelancing.
Steve Folland:
Nice. I was gonna ask, how do you find your work life balance...?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
That's much easier as a freelancer. Sometimes you want to take a break, then you just stop taking projects at that time. Or if it's a long term client, then you negotiate the time. But otherwise you can just seize your work. Don't take any project - if you decide I'm going to take this one month off, then you can do that. And then after you build a good reputation, they will come back to you after your break.
Steve Folland:
You obviously have a community of like-minded people on the personal side of things. But do you know other people working the way that you work?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Um, no. That was the problem in the beginning because I didn't have any role models. I didn't know how this lifestyle is possible. I didn't know this nomadic lifestyle was even possible, especially eight years ago that I found Elance at the time.
Steve Folland:
But do you know other freelancers now?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
Yes, because I work with different people on this platform on the same project sometimes. So I currently work with people in Japan and I previously worked with people in different parts of the world in India, in other countries. So I now know a lot of freelancers who have a lifestyle like me.
Steve Folland:
And how does the time zone difference work for or against you?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
It's sometimes challenging because sometimes I need to have meetings at like midnight or 1 AM - that is sometimes difficult, but that's okay. That's kind of what I like to do. I wanna work with companies around the world. So sometimes I need to have meetings late at night, but it's not that frequent, so it's okay.
Steve Folland:
Jenna, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Jenna Kang-Graham:
It would be keep learning and keep upskilling and keep looking for different opportunities because sometimes as a freelancer there will be gaps. And in the past I just felt bad about... well, why I'm not getting work all the time? But being a freelancer is being your own business. Any businesses have highs and lows. So if there's a low time, I just take the time to upskill myself. Like, especially during Covid, I worked with the same tourism client for five years. It was like a reliable job, but during covid, tourism got the biggest hit, so that job discontinued, but I just decided to upskill myself. So I just spent a lot of time learning new skills. And as I was doing that, I was also looking out for different opportunities. And then I found on Upwork an e-commerce client. And because e-commerce was on the rise during covid, I quickly made a pivot while I was up upskilling. So that upskilling helped me to find that opportunity. I was just doing upskilling and looking out for new opportunities at the same time. So you, you can pivot anytime the opportunity comes because your skills are already upgraded.
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