PR Consultant Michelle Garrett
About this episode…
Writer & PR Consultant Michelle Garrett
Although Michelle had a brief fling living the nine to five life in Silicon Valley, there was no chance of her resisting being her own boss.
Starting out as a freelancer 20 years ago, Michelle could never have predicted that social media would become such a big part of her freelancing life - with a huge Twitter chat, community and Space that she hosts.
In two decades she’s grown a successful business, a family, a community and ridden out the inevitable recessions and tough spells. It’s the long game and she’s got plenty to share on how to play it.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
Inspiring role models
Growing up, Michelle had inspiration right at her finger tips without even realising it at the time...
“My parents were both self-employed and so growing up, nobody went to work for somebody else in an office or business. They each had their own businesses and I got to see that from the inside out. So I guess they were inspiring me without me even really realising it. And when I got into the world of work, I always felt like, why do I have to sit in a cubicle from nine to five or whatever - everyday - why do I have to do that?”
twitter Network
Although Michelle’s early clients were from her existing network, the ever-evolving world of social media now plays a much bigger part in how she finds work…
“In the beginning a lot of it was my network and I think that's still a big part of it. And of course we didn't have social media back then when I started. But that has become a much bigger part of what I do, of how I find clients. I'm very active on Twitter, for example. I am on LinkedIn - I'm in B2B so I think that's kind of almost a requirement.”
Unpaid work can lead to greater visibility
Michelle will sometimes write articles she doesn’t get paid for, but believes the rewards can be worth it…
“We're not supposed to do things without being paid, but it is really how I market myself. I enjoy doing that. It's fun for me and I get visibility out of it. So to me, it's a win and I don't always need to be paid as long as it's leading to something: relationships, leads, or just visibility. I mean, there's a lot of things that you can't always measure the effectiveness of, but you have a feeling that they are effective”
Keeping the hopper full
It can be all too easy to feel the disappointment when conversations with potential clients don’t lead to more work, but Michelle doesn’t give up on those connections…
“I feel like it's really good to keep the hopper full and just constantly be talking to people because sometimes you'll talk to somebody today and they might not need you or think of you again for six months, or a year, or two years, but you have that relationship. ”
Freelancing Doesn’t have to be lonely
Michelle has experienced loneliness first hand. But rather than sitting back and wallowing, Michelle decided to take action, and now has a thriving Twitter community for company…
“I think we can get very lonely as freelancers. I work at home in an office by myself with my cat. So I started a chat on Twitter for freelancers and that has really helped me build a support system of people I can chat with. Sometimes we actually talk on the phone, not just on Twitter, so they're real relationships. And that has helped me greatly - as has trying to build relationships in real life.”
Providing a space for freelancers to feel supported
Michelle has worked in her industry for over 20 years. In that time she’s become all too aware of how easy it can be for freelancers to be vulnerable. As a result she’s worked hard to build a community of freelancers on Twitter, with trust and camaraderie at the centre…
“I truly feel that freelancers need support. I also feel like there are a lot of people who will try to fleece freelancers and sell them things they don't need. And freelancers that aren't very experienced will try to train other freelancers or coach them or sell courses. And I just have a real aversion to that because I feel like they're very vulnerable and it's easy.
You know, they're just kind of desperate sometimes to learn how to get clients or learn how to manage their freelance business. And I felt very strongly that not only do they need camaraderie, but they need somebody to trust or a group to trust - some people to trust - they can ask questions and nobody's expecting anything from them.”
“Freelance is a lifestyle for me ...
I really thrive this way. I don't know how I would be going into an office. I don't think I could do it now. I don't even know if I'd be able to get anything done.
PR Consultant Michelle Garrett
More from michelle garrett
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance PR Consultant Michelle Garrett
Steve Folland:
So we've got Michelle Garrett who is a Freelance Writer and Public Relations Consultant. Hey Michelle.
Michelle Garrett:
Hey Steve. Thanks for having me.
Steve Folland:
As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Michelle Garrett:
Well, it was something I think I was maybe born to do. My parents were both self-employed and so growing up, nobody went to work for somebody else in an office or business. They each had their own businesses and I got to see that from the inside out. And I, of course worked at my dad's produce market, all four kids worked there growing up and saw him in action. And then my mom had an antique business and she opened a shop, and so I saw that as well. So they were, I guess they were inspiring me without me even really realising it. So then of course I worked and went to college and all of that. And when I got into the world of work, I always felt like, why do I have to sit in a cubicle from nine to five or whatever, everyday, why do I have to do that?
Michelle Garrett:
And I tried in vain many times to get my bosses to let me work remotely, which is so funny to me because now of course we see huge remote work trend. Right. And that has only taken, I mean, I've been in the world of work for a long time, so then, I had just always known that I wanted to go out on my own and I was out working in Northern California in Silicon Valley and I kind of decided that I was going to make the leap and I put things in place. And when it was time, I started on day one with three clients and I never looked back
Steve Folland:
Amazing. Just to put things in perspective, what year are we talking about when you took that leap?
Michelle Garrett:
Oh, golly, maybe 2000.
Steve Folland:
Cool.
Michelle Garrett:
<laugh> I know that sounds like an eternity to most people, but yeah, I actually, and I'm not trying to date myself, but I did actually work in jobs as well before I went out on my own. So I had experience working in house and at an agency and I did all those things because I really believe that's important if you wanna work for yourself, I think you need to do that first, I do believe in that. So, yeah, but it's been a while.
Steve Folland:
When you said you had things in place before you struck out on your own, what did you put in place?
Michelle Garrett:
Well, I talked to a lot of people who were working for themselves already, and I got to know what I would need as far as systems, so invoicing and administrative side of things. It is complicated, but it doesn't have to be, but it was really nice to have somebody there at that time, because of course then, there weren't that many apps and things like we have now that you can use to do all of those things, you really needed help, as far as somebody's support and guidance, so I was really fortunate. I got involved in a professional organisation that had a freelance group. It was called the Freelancers Roundtable and they got together about once a month and they had speakers and of course you would meet people, you would network. So I was doing that for probably a year or so before I even went out on my own and I got to know a lot of people and some of my first clients came through those relationships as well. And then I also had a website because I was in Silicon Valley and that was <laugh> it's kind of required. Right. So yeah.
Steve Folland:
I was gonna say, you started immediately, hit the ground running with three clients. So did they all come from that? How did you get those first clients?
Michelle Garrett:
They were from people I worked with in two of the cases, friends from work referred me to people they knew that needed PR consulting help. And then the third one I got through the professional organisation through the Freelancers Roundtable.
Steve Folland:
And so you were positioning yourself as a PR consultant?
Michelle Garrett:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
So you said it's ever since then it just kept going basically?
Michelle Garrett:
Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Steve Folland:
But how did it keep going? Was it all just word of mouth?
Michelle Garrett:
In the beginning a lot of it was my network and I think that's still a big part of it. And of course we didn't have social media back then when I started. But that has become a much bigger part of what I do, of how I find clients. I'm very active on Twitter, for example. I am on LinkedIn. I'm in B2B so I think that's kind of a requirement almost. My heart is really with Twitter <laugh> so I'd use that. And then of course, I've added more to my website. Back then, It was more or less a brochure site, you know, here's how to contact me. And here's some bullet points about what I do, and now I'm actually redoing it a little bit to even include pricing and more case studies and things like that.
Michelle Garrett:
So it's evolving and I do blog there and I think that's helped me and I also write contributed articles and I don't always get paid for those, and I know that can be controversial. We're not supposed to do things without being paid, but it is really how I market myself. I enjoy doing that. It's fun for me and I get visibility out of it. So to me, it's a win and I don't always need to be paid as long as it's leading to something, you know, relationships or leads or just visibility. I mean, I do think there's a lot of things that you can't always measure the effectiveness of, but you have a feeling that they are effective.
Steve Folland:
Hmm. So when you say contributing articles, it might be magazine articles or blog posts?
Michelle Garrett:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
And you're pitching them, are you?
Michelle Garrett:
Well, sometimes I do and sometimes they come to me and offer me a spot, 'Would you like to write a post and we'll put it on our blog?', and then they'll publicise it, you know? And then they tag you. So it's worked really well for me. They also put links back to your site in many cases. And in a few cases, I even have been paid to do them and they have definitely led to paid work. I posted for Muck Rack on their blog once a month for three or four years. And that's led to at least several paying clients in the writing space.
Steve Folland:
And because you're doing PR, is a lot of that one-off projects or is it retainer type work?
Michelle Garrett:
I prefer retainers <laugh>. Some people don't like retainers, I like them because I think it helps the client know what they're gonna pay, what they're gonna be spending, and then it also helps the consultant to know how to kind of plan my time and how much really I think the more they're committed to me, the more I'm committed to them. That's kind of how I feel rightly or wrongly. And I also get to know them a lot better and I get to dig in because, if I'm just doing like a one-off PR project, which I really am not doing nearly as much now, cause I just don't think they're that successful, it is really hard to dig in and get results when they say, 'Okay, we have one press release, one announcement. We'd like you to pitch it for us'. That's not nearly as effective as say a three to six month type of programme where we're doing multiple things. We're maybe pitching contributed articles for a client, thought leadership pieces. We're also maybe pitching any news announcements they have, we're looking for opportunities that, you know, come up along the way in their industry, in industry publications and so forth. So I feel like I can just do a lot more for a client, and of course the more we can collaborate, the more success we usually have.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. And does that translate into how you market yourself as well? I suppose that whole, it's like a regular putting yourself out there rather than a one-off?
Michelle Garrett:
Yes. I mean, I feel like working for myself, I have to be marketing all the time and I think it's a mistake in some cases, not to think that way. Of course, some people may not need to do that and I can't speak for everyone. But I think when you pull back, when you feel very confident and your client load is full and you feel like, okay, everything's going in the right direction. Especially now, I feel like marketing items are the first to go. Sometimes when there are budget cuts and of course we see people being laid off, which can benefit freelancers, but you also think, well, if they're cutting their marketing team, they could be cutting their marketing budget. And that means me, you know? So I just feel like it's really good to keep some things in the hopper all the time.
Michelle Garrett:
Because even if you talk to someone, chances are, it may not work out anyway. If you talk to five people, you might end up with one as a client, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like it's really good to keep the hopper full and just constantly be talking to people because sometimes you'll talk to somebody today and they might not need you or think of you again for six months or a year or two years, but you have that relationship. So then when the need arises, they're like, 'Oh yes. I remember Michelle. I talked to her, I'm gonna get in touch with her now because we have a need now'.
Steve Folland:
You just said, 'Oh yeah, I remember Michelle', and I wanted to ask you about that because you use a company name. It's still your name though, right?
Michelle Garrett:
Yes. I use Garrett Public Relations. And I've thought about, because I also write, I've thought about, is that the right name? But I feel like the writing that I do is connected to PR and I feel like to be an effective PR consultant, you really need to be a strong writer. And I went to journalism school, the public relations piece of it was within the journalism school. So I actually trained as a journalist in college. I wrote for the paper, I interviewed sources. I wrote stories that were in the paper, so I'm not saying I've ever worked at the New York times or anything like that, but I do understand how journalism works. And I even write stories sometimes when I do contributed articles, I'll write them in more of a journalistic style where I interview people and pull up data and site facts and you know, things like that. So I think that piece of it was really important.
Steve Folland:
So did you always start out as Garrett Public Relations or did you switch to that?
Michelle Garrett:
I've always been Garrett Public Relations.
Steve Folland:
Listen, I don't wanna dwell on the fact that it's been 22 years. Okay. <laugh> but that's equally fantastic. Okay. <laugh> And, to be honest, if I had gone freelance straight out of university, I would've also been freelance for 22 years.
Michelle Garrett:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
But anyway, what I'm just wondering though is, sometimes I see people talking and they're like, oh, how do I stay motivated? How do you, you know, like you're going through this everyday and I'm just working by myself. Obviously you've maintained that for over two decades. So how have you managed to keep yourself going?
Michelle Garrett:
Yeah, that's a good question. It's not always easy. I think that I am really into not only being in control of who I work with and when I work and that kind of thing, I think I just thrive on my own. I was a manager at the agency I worked at before I departed to start my own business. And that was very hard. And I don't know if everyone feels that way about management, but I certainly did, in that piece of it, trying to build a team and keep them engaged and keep them motivated. I just didn't enjoy that as much as actually getting in there with the clients, getting to know them doing the work. And I still enjoy doing that and I have kind of changed gears along the way. Like sometimes I'll be doing more PR than writing, sometimes more writing than PR, I kind of like the mix and the balance. And then of course, content marketing has come along and that's created a need for, I think, both writing and PR because I see content marketing really as having pieces of both of those in there and then of course social media. So I see PR content, social, all being kind of tied up together and I forget what you even asked me, <laugh>
Steve Folland:
How you keep going. That's sort of that daily motivation, but it sounds like it's the variance, the variety?
Michelle Garrett:
Yes, the variety. And then I think too, just having kind of a support system because I think we can get very lonely as freelancers. I work at home in an office by myself with my cat. I'm a mom as well. I have two teenagers now, but you know, when I started, I started before they were born. So you can get lonely. And so I have started on Twitter. I have started a chat for freelancers and that has really helped me build a support system, if you will, of people I can chat with. Sometimes we actually talk on the phone, not just on Twitter, so they're real relationships. And that has helped me greatly as has trying to build relationships in real life. But honestly the last couple years, I haven't been out in person a whole lot, networking or doing any events or lunches or what have you.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. How long have you been doing that Twitter chat?
Michelle Garrett:
It's three and a half years now. So it'll be four years old in September.
Steve Folland:
And you do it every single week?
Michelle Garrett:
Every Thursday at noon Eastern. So we do it at a time when people from different time zones can join us, because we do get people from across the pond that tune in often and people from all over really, we have freelancers from all over that come. And I wish I could tell you how many people come. I know it's gotten very busy in there. So, then when Twitter launched its communities, we have a freelance chat community. It's a private community for people that come to the chat. But that gives people yet another way to connect, ask questions during the week something comes up, they have a question for the group. It's not like you're post, you're not sharing it with all of Twitter. You're just sharing it within the community. So that's kind of nice that they can feel that they can do that and maybe get some help
Steve Folland:
<laugh> And it might be a really obvious, quick answer. But how do you go about taking those sort of relationships that you build online, offline?
Michelle Garrett:
Well, obviously I don't talk to everybody on the phone, but I do set up phone calls with people sometimes. And then also, we do sometimes run into each other at events. Content Marketing World is a place where I've actually met a lot of people that I know on Twitter in person. And I'm speaking there again in September, so I'm pretty excited and I'm hoping, last year the attendance was down, I spoke in October and it's in September this year. So I'm hoping, perhaps more people will be able to join us because I know the pandemic has affected people's willingness to travel and go to things in person. So we'll have to see, but it's a great community and a lot of those folks are on Twitter as well.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. Oh God, it's so good though, Isn't it, like when you, when those profile picks come alive and you actually get to meet in person?
Michelle Garrett:
It is, it's like my Twitter feed comes to life. That's how I always describe it when I'm walking around and there's nothing like it really, I mean, I do appreciate all of my Twitter relationships and like I said, I have some real friendships through Twitter, but when you meet them in person, it just deepens it and takes it to another level. So, mm.
Steve Folland:
Do you feel like hosting that Twitter chat helps your business? I mean obviously it helps your business indirectly through the support and stuff, but as in bringing you work?
Michelle Garrett:
Well, it probably does, but I want to be very clear in that is not why I am doing it or why I started it. I truly feel that freelancers need support. And I also feel like there are a lot of people who will try to fleece freelancers and sell them things they don't need. And freelancers that aren't very experienced will try to train other freelancers or coach them or sell courses. And I just have a real aversion to that because I feel like they're very vulnerable and it's easy. You know, they're just kind of desperate sometimes to learn how to get clients or learn how to manage their freelance business. And I felt very strongly that not only do they need camaraderie, but they need somebody to trust or a group to trust, some people to trust, they can ask questions and nobody's expecting anything from them. I'm not selling them anything. I don't take sponsorships for the chat. Yes, I do get some visibility out of it, but in the beginning there were four of us or five of us, so it was never about that. And it still is not about that.
Steve Folland:
Love that. So you mentioned the new community feature of Twitter.
Michelle Garrett:
Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Steve Folland:
Have you done the spaces thing as well where you can kind of like chat and have conversations?
Michelle Garrett:
I do. I do have a space. I co-host on Friday, PR lunch hour, hashtag PR lunch hour. It's a space on Friday at noon Eastern. So Thursday at noon Eastern is the chat and Friday at noon Eastern is the space. The space is PR and the chat is freelancing and those are the two things that I'm really passionate about. There's three of us that co-host it. And then we have communications and PR pros and sometimes reporters and people that are just interested in hearing what's going on in that industry come, and it's been really fun. It's not something I probably would've done unless somebody asked me to do it, you know, but I've enjoyed it.
Steve Folland:
Is it an hour, PR lunch hour? Is it an hour?
Michelle Garrett:
It is an hour. Yep. From 12 to one. Yep.
Steve Folland:
So as well as presumably then expanding your network even further.
Michelle Garrett:
mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Steve Folland:
But this time in the field that you work in, it kind of sounds like it must be sort of like when we were talking about how do you stay motivated, that sounds motivating in what you do.
Michelle Garrett:
It really is. And it's very interesting to hear what people are saying and thinking, and I have learned so much because again, we get people from all over the world and the people that I co-host with one of them is kind of more in the entertainment and sports side of things. Like more on the publicist side. I don't really call myself a publicist because I work more with like boring B2B <laugh> technology and manufacturing companies and so forth. So it's a really nice mix because I don't have a lot of insight into some of that and this person does. And so, it gives you a different perspective too, because everybody that's there might have a little bit of a different take on something that you hadn't thought of and it just keeps you, you know, you have to have an open mind and I think it really helps you learn and not be in your little box, which I think is so important, more now than ever, that people are open to the way other people think and know that, you know, like my idea about this is not the only idea out there.
Michelle Garrett:
And so it really opens us up I think.
Steve Folland:
You work from home, which is what you wanted. You always wanted that remote <laugh> working.
Michelle Garrett:
I did, I love it. I feel like freelance is, it is a lifestyle for me and I think I really thrive this way and I don't know how I would be going into an office. I mean, I don't think I could do it now. Like I could go once a week or twice a week maybe, but for me to sit in an office all day, I don't even know if I'd be able to get anything done. Like I feel like I need to focus when I'm writing, I don't even listen to music. I can't sit in a cafe. I just want like quiet. And I feel like this is great because I can pop into my office. I have a door, I can close the door if I need to do something. And then of course, if I need to take off to go to my kid's school for something, or if I have an appointment or whatever, I don't have to tell 10 bosses that I'm going or where I'm going.
Michelle Garrett:
And there are no questions because of course my clients don't care if I work at midnight or if I work at 10:00 AM or they don't care as long as the work gets done. So that just made sense to me. And it thrills me to see that the rest of the world is maybe starting to think more like this because I just feel like it's long overdue, I have never understood, and even for businesses, they have to pay for space for people, and I just, I don't know why more people aren't doing this
Steve Folland:
And I know that plays into work life balance, but there's more to it than that. So how have you found balancing the two?
Michelle Garrett:
I think it is a juggling act at times, especially as a parent. When my kids were little, it was much harder and you have to have, again, it takes a village, you have to have resources. So, maybe that's relatives that babysit or a babysitter or maybe daycare or whatever it is. But I was willing to kind of make those sacrifices a little bit as far as I wanted to spend more time with my kids when they needed me the most, which is when they're little. Of course they still need me, but in a different way, it's not like they're dependent upon me, but I still enjoy spending time with them. And so it's also nice because you know, we have dinner at the table together every night. I usually don't work on the weekend. You know, every once in a while there's something, of course in PR you can have a crisis or something come up, or maybe there's a product launch or a trade show that coincides with a holiday period or something, but that's not consistent. And so I just feel like it's nice because it is a balance because sometimes you work more, sometimes you have more time off and you can control that to a degree. I'm not saying all the time, but I feel like it's worked out pretty well.
Steve Folland:
Nice. We spoke about Twitter, but how about what you do on LinkedIn because you mentioned that as well. What do you get up to on there?
Michelle Garrett:
You know, I feel like I have to be there <laugh> because I'm in B2B <laugh> I don't like the clicks and the formula to succeed on LinkedIn, which I feel is now there. Like you have to do the long form posts and you have to space it out and you have to put the link in the comments and there's all these things, and I'm like, well, can't I just share about work related things? Isn't that what LinkedIn is for? And then people are posting about their diets and their sex life and like, no, this is LinkedIn <laugh> Like save that for Facebook or Instagram. I mean, I know some people again would disagree with me on this, but I mean, I just feel like it's taken a weird turn, LinkedIn <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
But are you on there like every day? Like how do you play it?
Michelle Garrett:
I don't post every day. I'm probably over there checking the feed or checking notifications every day and I do get work that way. So I can't say it's terrible and I'll never use it again. I mean, I'm not in that camp, but I just know a lot of us feel like Twitter is more authentic and just a better place to have conversations. Don't love LinkedIn as much as we love Twitter, but I still think it has a place and for my clients again, and B2B sometimes I even post articles for them on their company page or I go over and like what they're talking about, so it does play a role in my work as well.
Steve Folland:
You've got some great testimonials on your website as well. Is getting testimonials something you systematically do or is it just when you're building a webpage and you go, 'ah, I really should ask'?
Michelle Garrett:
No, I'm trying to be better about it. I'm trying to kind of build it into my system and ask when we've had some success. So not right at the beginning of the relationship, maybe a few months in when we've had something to crow about, then I might go in and ask them. I think it's important for freelancers to do that. And to remember, because I think we forget, we get so busy doing our work and marketing our business and living our lives. And we forget to ask to strike when the iron is hot to ask a happy client, to sing our praises a little bit. And then we also don't wanna share what they said, you know? And I'm like, as a freelancer, you have to be okay talking about yourself and promoting yourself a little bit. I mean, I don't think you should be slimy about it, but you should find ways that you're comfortable doing that. And it's perfectly okay to share a client testimonial or something you've written or an award you've won or whatever it is. I think it's perfectly acceptable and a good idea.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. Everything sounds like it's, your freelance life is going great and has been so for quite a while, what have you found more challenging about being freelance?
Michelle Garrett:
I mean you have to always be pouring into it I guess. I know some people take sabbaticals or take a month off. I try to take a vacation a couple of times a year. Even if I just stay home. Like I don't take a break, basically over the holidays I don't work. But I mean, I feel like if I left for a month or three months that would be really bad for my business. So I feel like there's a little bit of pressure that way sometimes. I think what can help is if you have like a trusted colleague who can, like when I took maternity leave with my daughter, I did have another freelancer, another consultant who I brought in to fill in for me with clients that needed that. And we had a call where we introduced them and everybody knew how to contact each other.
Michelle Garrett:
And you know, I trusted that person because they could just take my clients and run. So it has to be somebody you trust. But I do think those kind of relationships can be helpful if you are trying to take time off and you maybe feel like you just can't unplug entirely. That's one thing I would say about it. And then you have a lot of ups and downs and you have to be okay with that. Like you learn a down is not gonna stay that way forever. And an up is probably not gonna stay that way either. It's like right now we've got a recession looming. So we're probably gonna be talking about that on the chat pretty soon. And I said to somebody, is this good to talk about? Or is it like Debbie downer? You know? And they said, no, I think it's better to be prepared. And so that's what I would say is that just kind of keeping yourself ready and prepared and like okay to roll with the punches or the ups and downs, that could be challenging. And I think I'm doing better than I probably used to do with it.
Steve Folland:
Mm. I was gonna say, how do you prepare for that? Because by the nature of recessions and economic cycles, like over two decades, we've seen quite a few really. How have you learned to sort of better ride that wave?
Michelle Garrett:
Here in the U.S, I think we had a pretty serious recession kind of back toward 2008-2009. I was not in a good position for that and I did suffer and I had to take clients that didn't pay as much that weren't the jobs, the projects weren't maybe what I wanted, to kind of get myself back in a better position. So when we kinda had a recession about two years ago, I think that's when it was, it was short when COVID started, and I felt in a much better position because I was out there. I had a digital presence. I'm kind of everywhere. I mean, not, you know, I'm not saying that like, oh yeah, look at me. But I'm just saying I have worked really hard to build a body of work.
Michelle Garrett:
You know, I have my articles, I have my website, I have my social media. And of course I'm trying to talk to people and get to know people and be a resource for people and in the spirit of really helping them, of course, but it's good for your business to be in that spirit all the time. Because then when you do need to rely on that a little bit more, it's gonna be there for you, once you build it, you will have it. And to me it's all about like playing the long game and kind of showing up everyday consistently and just being present. I mean, I don't know how else to say it.
Steve Folland:
Mm. How have you managed like the business side of things? Be it the pricing or the managing your finances and clients?
Michelle Garrett:
Not very well. <laugh>,
Steve Folland:
<laugh>,
Michelle Garrett:
That's probably like my Achilles heel, honestly. I don't love that part of the business. Okay. So honestly, the administrative side, the financial side, I do have an accountant. He does my taxes, bless his heart because I wouldn't want to do them. And he knows the ins and outs and the laws and they change. And I don't know all that stuff and I don't wanna know it. So as far as like my month to month, like I do my own invoices, I have to make sure I'm following up. If somebody hasn't paid me and that kind of thing. And then I've developed a little bit more of an organisational system for clients like shared Google drives nothing complicated, but just places where we can put everything that we're working on together. I have a sheet in there. I keep updated on like what we're working on and the deadlines and what the results are and just things like that. And then we can keep images, like if we're pitching a story and we need some images there in there, I can go there, they can go there, we can find everything, that helps a lot.
Steve Folland:
So Michelle, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Michelle Garrett:
To go for it and take the leap and put your ducks in a row, but not to be scared and to know that you can do it. If that's what you want to do.
Steve Folland:
Michelle, it's been really great chatting to you. All the best being freelance.
Michelle Garrett:
Thank you, Steve, for having me, this was fun.
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