Visual Storyteller Ashwin Chacko
About this episode…
VISUAL STORYTELLER ASHWIN CHACKO
When Ashwin moved from India to Ireland, it was more than just his surroundings that changed.
At first he took any design work he could get. But the pandemic allowed him to pause and show the world he was an illustrator. A visual storyteller aiming to spread positivity and joy.
His self initiated (and even self published) side projects brought that to life.
They showed the work. Now they bring him work.
Embracing an abundance mentality is bringing him - and us - plenty of joy for real.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
AN INTROVERT BEING EXTROVERTED TO BUILD A BUSINESS
When Ashwin moved from India to Dublin he had to build up a network and find work from scratch…
“The Irish are friendly, but it's still hard to break past the superficial hi and hello. So it was a process of going to lots of different events, cold emailing people, and then reaching out on LinkedIn to say, 'Hey, I'm new to this country, would you be open to having a conversation with me about the industry? I'd love to hear more'.
The combination of the three worked for me to build the community I have now.
There's nothing like having to feed a family to keep you motivated. It was life or death. I had to. You don't have a choice.
I’m introverted, but have taught myself to be extroverted, specifically to build a business.”
AN ABUNDANCE MENTALITY
There’s a reason Ashwin’s often giving positive pep talks - that positive mindset works…
“I've learned the work's not gonna go away. Abundance mentality.
If you work from a poverty mindset, you think there’s a scarcity of everything. And because there's scarcity, you need to fight to survive and to make enough. Whereas if your mindset is that of an abundance mentality, meaning there's endless amounts of work and potential that you can get… Just because you miss out on one job, doesn't mean you're not gonna get a better one down the line..”
THE POWER OF PERSONAL PROJECTS
Ashwin found if you want a particular type of work, you might have to create yourself first…
“Sometimes you have to create the type of work, actually.. always, you need to create the type of work that you want to get.
Personal projects are what drive my career. That's how you can experiment and then shift gears if you need to.
I launched a personal project and that personal project was to self-publish my book, 'What Wonderous Shapes We Are'. With the launch of the book, I reached out to as many people as I could on social media, emailed potential people to give it and that process then started getting my name into different people's inboxes. I got invited to do workshops for children through that process. And then it just started a snowball effect. That one project then propelled other things that came forward the rest of the year.”
EMBRACING BUSINESS
Ashwin got into reading business books and inspiring YouTube videos on the business of creativity…
“It's brought clarity and understanding of how businesses work - the idea that, businesses actually like to talk about money up front. They like to be clear about that. So why do we hesitate as artists to ask for what we're worth? Have the conversation up front and both parties are much happier.
Another big lesson: communication. Communication is key to run any great business. So the idea that you answer emails well, you set up meetings quickly. You clarify the process you go through to create the work that you create. And each time you do something like that, you are mitigating your risk as a potential client. You're showing the other company that you're an investment worth making and that you're not risky because you deliver and you deliver a high caliber of work and you always deliver it on time. And you always communicate about the process of it. Setting expectations is so important, both for yourself and for the client.”
EVEN CRITICISM IS A POSITIVE
It can be hard not to take things personally when you are the business, but Ashwin’s found a way that works for him…
“I think one really important step that you have to take is distancing your identity from your work. So you have to understand that you are valuable regardless of what work you do.
Once you make that distinction, you've suddenly positioned yourself to take criticism on your work or to take failure from your work and see it as an opportunity for growth. And so if you have confidence in yourself, then any criticism to your work becomes an avenue to improve yourself and thus there's growth and confidence in the ability that you get through that process.”
“Sometimes… actually, always...
You need to create the type of work that you want to get.”
Ashwin Chacko, Visual Storyteller
More from Ashwin Chacko
Ashwin’s website - Whacko Chacko
Whacko Chacko on Instagram
Whacko Chacko on Twitter
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance Visual Storyteller Ashwin Chacko
Steve Folland:
As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Ashwin Chacko:
So as far back as I can remember, I always wanted to draw. And I particularly remember the story of me at the age of five or six, asking my mother, if I could make drawing a living. At the time, of course she shrugged her shoulders and said, we'll see. But I continued to pursue that idea of potentially making drawing a living. So I applied for visual communications when I finished my high school. And that's when I first started getting hired to do my freelance jobs. So I was fortunate enough to meet a friend of mine, a good friend of mine. He's a cartoonist and a freelance illustrator named Jonathan. And he actually gave me my first gig. He took me under his wing and chucked me the odd job here and there. And that's the crux or the nexus of my start.
Steve Folland:
So you were doing those freelance projects while you were still studying. What happened when you finished?
Ashwin Chacko:
I continued to do that freelance work. So I actually switched universities from studying visual communications. I quit a year in because after the first year it was going to become a very theoretical course. And I thought to myself, I need a portfolio at the end of this. How am I gonna get hired? And because of that, I looked for other opportunities and animation was just starting out in India. It was one of the new courses available and I found a university that was offering a degree in it. So I studied animation and multimedia. I continued to freelance, getting small odd jobs here and there throughout that process. And I finally transitioned out of animation and multi media, and I ended up doing nothing with animation, but going into graphic design and working in advertising in a really funky company called Wo Mama Design. And so I continued to work at Wo Mama during the day and I would freelance with projects that I was passionate about during the night.
Steve Folland:
And how would you get those pieces of work that you were doing at night?
Ashwin Chacko:
A lot of it was actually word of mouth, like friends passed on things to me that they were working on that they couldn't get to, or it was on ODesk - which later became Upwork. So I used to look on ODesk for potential jobs as well back then.
Steve Folland:
So how did that start to change? You know, at this point you're working a job during the day, you're freelancing at night. How long did that go for?
Ashwin Chacko:
2009 is where I see myself as officially freelancing, not full-time, but part-time along with work. I continued to do that all the way to 2015 when me and a buddy of mine decided to start our own studio and it was called Custom Clay. And this was while I was still in India. So we started it 2015. And then at the end of the year, I ended up moving to Ireland, even though we just started it. I continued to then freelance for a year in India while I was living here and then we ended up closing the studio because it was just too hard to maintain across the two.
Steve Folland:
So you were doing the studio full time?
Ashwin Chacko:
Yeah, me and a buddy, we decided to just start our own like design studio.We wanted to do clothes and pick projects that we were interested in. We were kind of disenfranchised from the kind of crappy clients we kept getting at work.
Steve Folland:
And how did you find working with a friend?
Ashwin Chacko:
It was really good because we had very separate skills. He was very much the business mind and I was more of the creative wild card and so the two of us would have been a really great partnership because we could designate specific roles to specific jobs.
Steve Folland:
How did that change then? When you went solo and you had to do those jobs yourself?
Ashwin Chacko:
It was a big learning curve! So it was a short stint with Custom Clay, but then when I moved to Ireland, I ended up working here as an art director for another company for six months before I had to then push myself into freelance. So that job didn't really work out so I ended up having to look for work and I couldn't find any work. So I was like, okay, I just have to make this freelance thing work. I started doing what I could making connections. Half of them were still from India, but that doesn't really work well in Ireland with the currency exchange. So it was a real mix of things that was happening all at the same time. And then at the back of 2019, I started reading more business books and watching YouTube channels, like The Futur - where they were talking about the business of design. And I started incorporating some of those ideas into how I create what I do. And then between 2019 and 2020, I finally transitioned into becoming a full-time illustrator. And that was a big jump for me, which has been really good.
Steve Folland:
As in, because before that you would just design anything? How do you mean 'describing yourself as an illustrator'?
Ashwin Chacko:
Yeah, so before it would be graphic design heavy and the odd illustration job here and there. And over the last three years, I was able to transition into full-time illustrator. So I made a conscious decision not to take any more graphic design work on.
Steve Folland:
Which meant turning it down?
Ashwin Chacko:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
How'd you find that?
Ashwin Chacko:
Well, it was good actually for me, I think I did it at the right time. And it was a very conscious decision to pursue this line of work because trying to be everything for everybody was not going to work out and it wasn't working for me. And there was so much fluctuation. And even though I really wanted to passionately pursue illustration because of the need to get paid, you'd just take any job on right. End of 2019, I had the opportunity to work on a residency at Facebook. And so I did that and the residency ended the day lockdown started. This then gave me a little cushion and a time to pause.
Ashwin Chacko:
The whole world was paused. So I was like, okay, this is the perfect opportunity to pause right now, all this time I've been living on this survival mentality, you know, you just gotta make enough to keep going. And now I was like, why have I been doing what I'm doing and what sort of impact do I want my work to make? So I went through this introspective journey of finding my purpose and in finding my purpose and creating a vision, I then could make very conscious decisions about how I wanted to move forward in the following years. And because I was very conscious about that process and saying, these are the right clients for me and these other ones are not, it allowed me to grow.
Steve Folland:
What did you put in place to make that happen?
Ashwin Chacko:
So I, revamped my full website. I got rid of all graphic design stuff. I only had illustrative stuff inside it. I clarified what my style was. So I got rid of all the other styles that I could potentially do and picked one that best suited number one, my purpose, which was to bring joy and encouragement in everything I do. So the current style you see that I use constantly is basically the conduit to get across both my personality and my message. And so, like I see style as the bridge between the two and by clarifying that, I could then have a very clear message across to people. And so with clients that I get as well, all I have to do is ask a simple question, will this project bring joy and encouragement? And if it does, then we have a way forward.
Steve Folland:
Did it take long for this to sort of kick in? For you to become known for being an illustrator, to getting the work you aimed to get?
Ashwin Chacko:
Surprisingly, it was a very quick amount of growth, an unexpected amount of growth. And I think, again, it has to do with timing. Obviously I'd put in a lot of time over the last five years that I've been here in Ireland with building connections and community and all of that - then with the pandemic and the switch - with the advertising industry, not being able to do video, not being able to do photography and me being clear about what solutions I can offer as an illustrator... This suddenly positioned me in a place that was very desirable for companies to work with me. And for previous friends of mine who worked as art directors or creative directors to connect, because my work was very relevant for the current time. It was bringing optimism in a time that felt very dark, very foreboding without light at the end of the tunnel. And so I think there was lots of little factors that fed into that fact.
Steve Folland:
Okay, so there's people who you know, there's connections that you've made, but did you do any sort of outreach?
Ashwin Chacko:
I did not email people in 2020. What I did do is I launched a personal project and that personal project was to self-publish my book, 'What Wonderous Shapes We Are'. It's a children's book and it tackles the question of diversity and the fact that we come in many shapes and size is, but at the end of the day, we're all people and we need to appreciate the wonderous shapes we come in. And so I launched that book and obviously with the launch of the book, I reached out to as many people as I could on social media, emailed potential people to give it and that process then started getting my name into different people's inboxes. I got invited to do workshops for children through that process. And then it just started a snowball effect. That one project then propelled other things that came forward the rest of the year.
Steve Folland:
Bringing your portfolio and your aim of positivity to life in a book. It was self-published. So was the aimto sell them to make money or was your thinking, no, I want to get this out so people see what I'm able to do. What was your thinking?
Ashwin Chacko:
The core of that was actually, I wanted to write the book for my kids. In 2018, I initially wanted to start writing kids books. I'd written this book called Into The Woods We Go, and I was super excited about the project. I was hyped. I had the layout all done. I had the story written out and I sent it out to publishers. It went out everywhere. And then the wait began - six months go by, no word. One year goes by... and I get one email in my inbox that says it's a no. And at that stage, of course I'd lost all traction and all motivation to finish that project. But 2020, really one of the great things about it was it gave me that time to pause and consider what I wanted to do. And for me, the decision was simple.
Ashwin Chacko:
I can't allow anybody else to prevent me or my perception of permission to publish a book or to do something. And so I was like, this is an important message I wanted for my kids and I need to get it out there. And so the message was the driving part and the hope was obviously that the project would pay for itself. And also then it shows potential publishers that it's mitigating my risk factor. Like, a lot of people do not think of publishers as a business, but it's purely a business. And so in order for them to take a new author on, they need to see the potential that they are going to be a good investment. And in order for that to happen, they need to see that you are a low risk factor. And some ways that can happen is through an agent because the agent has vetted you, or you have to somehow prove to them that you can bring something new to the table. And that's what I did through this process of that book. And it worked: I got three publishers through that process,
Steve Folland:
So cool. So with those publishers for three separate books. Was it because you were sending them new ideas for books? Did you send the same idea to everyone?
Ashwin Chacko:
So it's weird. It works. This is why I think it's so important to maximize your social media, because it works in your favour in ways that you don't even know. So the first publisher I got was a local publisher here, and that happened through the children's workshops that I was doing. And I was working with an organization here called Children's Book Ireland - because they enjoyed working with me, they recommended me to other people. And through that process, I contacted one of the editors at the publishing house and said, Hey, I've got this book. 'What wonderous shapes we are', would you be interested in publishing it? They had a look at it. They were like this book isn't quite right for us, but what other ideas do you have? And that then began a conversation with them. The second one was a publisher in America and they're called A Kids Book About, and their designer Luke followed me on Instagram.
Ashwin Chacko:
When they were looking for new potential authors, he had seen 'What wonderous shapes we are' and he recommended me to the team who then reached out to me. And I had the opportunity to write a kid's book about justice. And the third one was an acquisition officer at DK, whose friend recommended my website. And she saw What Wonderous Shapes and asked me if I was interested in getting it published. I'd also written another book, which I can't name right now, because it's all in talks ,but basically the second book that I had written, they decided to acquire it. And so that'll be coming out in a couple of years.
Steve Folland:
Wow. As you say, it just goes to show, but also, would you describe yourself as having confidence in reaching out to people or is it something you really have to work at?
Ashwin Chacko:
It's definitely something you have to work at. So I think one big or really important step that you have to take is distancing your identity from your work. So you have to understand that you are valuable regardless of what work you do. And so once you make that distinction, you've suddenly positioned yourself to take criticism on your work or to take failure from your work and see it as an opportunity for growth. And so if you have confidence in yourself, then any criticism to your work becomes an avenue to improve yourself and thus there's growth and confidence in the ability that you get through that process.
Steve Folland:
Brilliant. Do you know that almost sounds like that could be a quote out from your 'Keep At It' book.
Ashwin Chacko:
Yes, probably is - that was self-published in January 2019. That had started on the back of an Instagram project that I started in 2018. So at that time there was a lot of typography going around and I was like, I really love hand lettering and typography, and I want to get hired to do that. So how do you do that? I need to create a project where I can practice making myself better at this skill and also showcase the type of work I can do. So I did this 30 day project where I illustrated a quote every day for 30 days. At the end of the 30 days, when I looked back at all the work, I realized a lot of it was a reflection of the freelance life and sort of quotes or advice I would've given myself 10 years ago. I was like, this would make a great book.
Ashwin Chacko:
This is a great way to give back to the community. So I just put all the information together, created the book. And then I emailed a bunch of art directors in Ireland and I said, Hey, I've got a new portfolio. Would you be interested in meeting? I'd love to show you my stuff. And so I took the book around, the physical book, they got a chance to look at it. They looked at all the other stuff I had on my website, and then I started getting hired to do typography work. And so sometimes you have to create the type of work, actually, always, you need to create the type of work that you want to get.
Steve Folland:
It's fantastic. We'll put links of course, at beingfreelance.com (click on the Links tab!) to Ashwin's site, which is WackoChaco.com - is that a business name that you have, or just a fun way to portray yourself online?
Ashwin Chacko:
That's actually a monicker I earned in high school. I earned it because I used to wear these really quirky clothes and they started calling me Wacko Chacko and I owned it. So, basically I grew up in the nineties and rap and hip hop was big, but I came from a missionary family. I had no exposure to it, but turning up at this international boarding school, obviously all the cool kids were into hip hop and rap. And to endear myself to the cool crowd I took to shaving my head, wearing a bandana and stealing my dad's t-shirt so I could look like Tupac. This insecurity continued all the way from elementary to high school until I finally had the opportunity to go on exchange to Australia and going to Australia suddenly I was outside the bubble of this narrative that I was exposed to in this small international boarding school.
Ashwin Chacko:
And it made me realize as long as I listen to everybody's feedback about how I should look, how I should dress, I'll never be my own person. I'll always be somebody else's expectations, I'll be living their narrative. And so I made a conscious decision only to wear and dress with things that interested me. And I love waistcoats. So that was one of the things. I like quirky shoes. And yeah, I used to pair weird clothes together and wear lots of hats. So when I came back, they started calling me Wacko Chacko. So when I came to starting my own business, I was like, this is perfect. It used to initially be called Wacko Ink. Because like Wacko was who I was and Ink was what I did. And then later on it switched to Wacko Chacko because Wacko kind of describes my art as well now. And, Chacko is obviously who I am.
Steve Folland:
So good. Speaking about the ways you earn a living, you seem to have different income streams.
Ashwin Chacko:
Yeah. So multiple streams of income - this is so important for a freelancer to always have multiple streams because if one stream dries up, you have other options. So I do prints and I have a clothing brand that I used to screen print originally, but now because of the pandemic, I use Treadless to sell my clothes on. Then I do public speaking, because I was really interested in doing motivational speaking. So I speak at companies about insecurity and how to stay positive and how to maximize your social media - topics like that. And I think that's the three key audiences that I have is like the pep talks, the shop and then of course my commercial clients. Oh and I also teach at the university - I lecture and teach them how to draw.
Steve Folland:
As well as the importance of the different income streams, does it make a difference to the way you enjoy freelance life, having all of those different things going on?
Ashwin Chacko:
Yeah. It means I'm never bored. I can be creative in multiple ways. You know, it's not just one aspect. And I think that's very much linked to my own personality. I like to try lots of different things, but this way I can try lots of different things, but still be niche and relevant to specific people so that I'm not all over the place and I can present a consistent brand across everything.
Steve Folland:
How have you got on with the business side of running a business, particularly once you sort of changed over the past few years?
Ashwin Chacko:
Yeah. It's been really good because it's brought clarity and understanding of how businesses work, the idea that, businesses actually like to talk about money up front. They like to be clear about that. So why do we hesitate as artists to ask for what we're worth? Have the conversation up front and both parties are much happier. Another big lesson: communication. Communication is key to run any great business. So the idea that you answer emails, well, you set up meetings quickly. You clarify the process you go through to create the work that you create. And each time you do something like that, you are mitigating your risk as a potential client. You're showing the other company that you're an investment worth making and that you're not risky because you deliver and you deliver a high caliber of work and you always deliver it on time. And you always communicate about the process of it. Setting expectations is so important, both for yourself and for the client.
Steve Folland:
How about the work life balance side of it? You mentioned having kids.
Ashwin Chacko:
So as a rule, I try my best, not to work over the weekend. So Saturday and Sundays are generally off. There's the odd workshop that lands on one of those days or a local market, but that I try to keep that as separate as possible. And then, because I work from home, I have the opportunity to take pauses during the day. So I might take an extended lunch break and, you know, hang out with my kids or shut off at five o'clock, we'll all have dinner together and then I might have a talk later in the evening. So it's taking those pause moments. The other great thing about being freelance and working for yourself is the fact that if it's a sunny day in Dublin and it's one of those rare, beautiful days, you take the whole day off and you just go to the beach and you just balance the work off.
Steve Folland:
Which sounds easier to do than it is. A lot of people almost feel the guilt. Like they should carry on working and not seize the sunny day.
Ashwin Chacko:
I've learned the work's not gonna go away. That's another thing: abundance mentality. If you work from a poverty mindset, you think there is a scarcity of everything. And because there's scarcity, you need to fight to survive and to make enough, whereas if your mindset is that of an abundance mentality, meaning there's endless amounts of work and potential that you can get. And so just because you miss out on one job, doesn't mean you're not gonna get a better one down the line.
Steve Folland:
Love it. Sounds like there's abundance in Ireland for you.
Ashwin Chacko:
Ireland actually was never on my radar. [Ashwin's wife is Irish]. But it's fortunate that we did end up coming here because it has unveiled so many possibilities. I think it's really well positioned in the world for it's access to Europe, access to UKm access to America. And because it's small, I could integrate into that community once I got the foot in.
Steve Folland:
Yeah, out of interest, when you first moved there and you said, 'so I started to grow my network' and I remember thinking as you said that, oh, that sounds easy. And then I thought, I bet it wasn't. How did you go about growing that network in a new country?
Ashwin Chacko:
Oh man, that was real tough. The Irish are friendly, but it's still hard to break past the superficial hi and hello, you know? So it was a process of going to lots of different events, cold emailing people, and then reaching out on LinkedIn to say, 'Hey, I'm new to this country, would you be open to having a conversation with me about the industry? I'd love to hear more'. And so it was the combination of the three that worked for me to build the community I have now. It was also volunteering my time to things that I thought would be beneficial. Like if there was an opportunity, I'd be like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it for free. I just want to help out and be a part of this. And those of course then opened other opportunities as well.
Steve Folland:
It takes guts just to reach out to people online, frankly.
Ashwin Chacko:
Well, it was life or death. Right?I had to. There's nothing like having to feed a family to keep you motivated. You don't have a choice. I, by choice, am introverted, but have taught myself to be extroverted, specifically to build a business.
Steve Folland:
If you could tell your younger self, one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Ashwin Chacko:
I suppose it would be 'slow doesn't mean over'. You know, there's always that next job around the horizon. And sometimes when there is a slow period, that's the best time to take a break or focus on a personal project that could potentially get you new clients.
Steve Folland:
Those personal projects have obviously been really important to you. As things have now picked up and gone well for you, do you continue to do them?
Ashwin Chacko:
Oh yeah. Personal projects are what drive my career. That's how you can experiment and then shift gearss if you need to.
Steve Folland:
Brilliant. Ashwin thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
Ashwin Chacko:
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate this chat.
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