Illustrator and Arts Educator Fredde Lanka
About this episode…
ILLUSTRATOR & ARTS EDUCATOR FREDDE LANKA
Creating posters for queer club nights, meant the work of Fredde Lanka (AKA Fredrik Andersson) was plastered all over London and that brought him more projects.
But it was when those nights shut in lockdown that things really picked up - he started connecting directly with his audience, creating portraits.
Now he splits his time between illustration, ceramics, teaching and running an art project for young queer people. The mix stops him being bored and leaves him feeling good.
Fredde can see that creating work that explores his queer values may well have meant some big brand, big money projects won’t have come to him (beyond Pride month tokenism). But this work leaves him feeling fulfilled and that’s worth a whole lot more.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
MAKING WORK TO PLEASE YOURSELF
Fredde didn’t jump straight from studying to freelancing as an artist. He took a job in a cafe and made time to discover his own style beyond what was needed to get the grades…
“There's an illustrator/3D animator called Jack Sachs - told a story about how it took him a while after school to start drawing the things that he wanted to actually draw. So I followed that advice for a bit and kind of spent almost a year in a studio.
And I was in there on the weekends when I was doing my cafe job and just did whatever came up in my head and just drew it and made it - I played around with some ceramics and stuff and just wanted to figure out what I wanted to do outside of the context of getting grades from tutors and trying to please other people with your work and trying to just please yourself...
I just took time focusing on that and eventually work just started coming in from people noticing the work I was just naturally doing for myself.”
DIVERSIFY FOR NOURISHMENT
For Fredde, having lots of different things going on isn’t just about diversifying his income - that diversity nourishes him. Success isn’t just about the money, it’s about how he feels.
“I get quite bored quite quickly cause my attention span isn't that long. So if I do the same thing too many times, I probably just naturally would want to switch and do something else.
I don't just get stuck in that rut. So normally I would go in between doing illustration work, ceramic work and then education work and it kinda bounces off each other to help my mind feel a bit more nourished I guess, or inspired.”
TOKENISM
Fredde was getting known for his work in the queer community, but when it came to bigger brand projects, he found for a long time he was the token gay gesture…
“As a queer person I normally would get a big commission doing Pride - it's tokenism because that's when they need the gay illustrator to come out of his little dungeon and draw something for them. And then they ignore you for the rest of the year.”
REJECTION IS STILL CONNECTION
Fredde has an agent now, but that particular agent originally turned him down when he admits, he was fresh out of uni unsure of his own art direction. But rejection doesn’t have to be entirely negative, you’re still making connections…
“Sometimes it's good to just meet people and then if you need more time to either just work on your own practice and figure out what you want to do, then I think that's a good thing.
Just getting a rejection first doesn't mean that they don't want to hear from you in the future.”
AVOIDING BURNOUT - ‘DEADLINES DON’t EXIST’
There have been points where Fredde has burned out. These days he’s learned how to spot it coming early and take steps to avoid it.
“If I get the feeling that I'm getting close, I take the rest of the day off, zone out. Play a game, go for a walk, hang out with friends, might draw, but I will draw for myself. I won't touch any work. I won't answer any emails. Or I will just postpone certain commissions and ask, oh, can I get an extended deadline? Cause most of the time people will say, 'yes, that's fine, of course'.
And I guess when you start off it's kind of hard to ask for those things, because you don't know what's gonna happen. If people are gonna think that you are weak or not capable, but in reality, everyone has moments like that and deadlines are just made up dates - they don't actually mean anything - that's kind of the truth. Any deadline that anyone said to you is just a made up figure. Deadlines don't exist really.”
WORKING (OR NOT) FOR FREE
Fredde has become very clear about what projects he’ll work on for free or less money. It’s all about whether it aligns with his queer values…
“You start to learn more and more and you kind of know when people are trying to take the piss and trying to like see what they can get out of you instead of just being upfront with their budget.
So now if people say that they wanna do it for free, I make quite a hard cut on what I would be prepared to do and how much I would be prepared to do for free. And then if people wanna pay me, I usually say, just tell me what the budget is and I can tell you what I can do for that money rather than you having a back and forth with me. It just goes quicker that way I feel.”
COLLABORATIONS - FILLING IN THE GAPS
Fredde runs a community group for young queer people, but he couldn’t do it by himself - valuing the strength that comes from collaborations…
“When you do collaborations with people, it's about filling in the gaps - seeing what you can do for other people.
And that's kind of how I view when I work with grassroots organisations as an illustrator, I see what I can do for them, with the tool of the art that I make. How can I help them get their message across or boost it - it's like, what can I be of use for that they can't do themselves. And that's how you should operate in groups I feel.”
“Deadlines are just made up dates.
They don't actually mean anything - that's kind of the truth… Ask, oh, can I get an extended deadline? Most of the time people will say, 'yes, that's fine, of course”
Illustrator, Fredde Lanka on avoiding burnout
📷 Photo of Fredde by Daniele Fummo
More from FREDDE LANKA
Fredde’s website
Fredde on Instagram
Queer Art Youth Collective
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance Illustrator & Arts Educator Fredde Lanka
Fredde Lanka:
How I started being freelance? I was living in Sweden - I come from the north in Sweden - I didn't really know what to do, but my town just happened to have a set design degree. So I actually studied set design for two years. And in that course, you go on internships, so a lot of free labour as an intern where you learn quite a lot of things. But now when I think about it, I think that's messed up and I wouldn't really suggest that people do work for free because that's not really fair. But I did learn quite a lot of things there that prepared me for my life that I have now. Eventually started getting lpaid work. I moved to Stockholm, lived there for three years and kinda maintained a freelance life there, working on different productions, learning how to handle budgets and project planning and stuff.
Fredde Lanka:
Normally now when I work with people, they tell me that I have an exceptional logistical mind compared to a lot of other illustrators that they work with when it comes to time management and planning. Which I guess is a good thing in many ways. Then I decided to change careers. I moved to London, studied here, did a BA in illustration at Camberwell College of Arts. So when I was in school there, I was kind of already like prepared for what life was gonna be after. It was just gonna be different kind of jobs than movies, but the same idea of invoicing and keeping track of your finances and the taxes were kind of already there as a base. When graduated, I worked at a cafe for a bit and did some jobs on the side - just took it quite slow until I was ready to just go full time. And then I felt quite prepared.
Steve Folland:
So you were prepared in knowing how to run that business, but you can't go invoicing people unless you get clients. So how did you get those first clients?
Fredde Lanka:
I guess I took some time after uni. There's an illustrator,/3D animator called Jack Sachs and he came in and ran a few sessions with a few of us in my year. And he told a story about how it took him a while after school to start drawing the things that he wanted to actually draw. So followed that advice for a bit and kind of spent almost like a year in a studio. And I was in there on the weekends when I was doing my cafe job and just did whatever came up in my head and just drew it and made it - I played around with some ceramics and stuff and just wanted to figure out what I wanted to do outside of the context of getting grades from tutors and trying to please other people with your work and trying to just please yourself, I guess.
Fredde Lanka:
So I just took some time focusing on that and eventually work just started coming in from people noticing the work I was just naturally doing for myself.
Steve Folland:
So where were you sharing that? How were they seeing it?
Fredde Lanka:
Just Instagram to be honest, as many issues as I have with social media now, I do have a lot to owe the Instagram platform. I don't think it's as easy today to start a career like that. But for me at the time, this is now like eight years ago, it was quite helpful.
Steve Folland:
So were you posting regularly? Were you like being deliberate about it?
Fredde Lanka:
I didn't think too much about it, but I was in quite a high production period of my life. So I guess I was posting every day for quite a long time. Which became a little bit obsessive towards the end. And now I don't really do that anymore because it's not really good for my mental health
Steve Folland:
And ceramics as well. You said?
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. So I managed a pottery cafe, as I was studying and then after, so that was my cafe job. I was using their kiln to like fire some ceramics after school. And it was just something I got into because I was doing a lot of work on the computer when I was studying. And I was fed up with sitting in front of a screen all the time. So I started making these ceramics just to get away from that.
Fredde Lanka:
But then it kind of happened that ceramics took up quite a big part of my life for a bit, cause I got a big commission from Liberty London after a year of graduating. So then I spent six months or more only doing ceramics. Which was also an interesting experience, but also very bad in many ways. Cause I went from being a self producing person to then having to employ assistants and becoming this production house because they ordered so much. And I wasn't really prepared for that to happen that quick. So that was a bit like a good experience, but also very, very bad in many ways. Cause I burnt myself out quite severely after.
Steve Folland:
So Liberty is probably known in quite a lot of countries around the world, but in for those who don't know - it's a big famous fashionable London department store. It's a big deal. And so somebody from there saw your ceramics on Instagram and commissioned you?
Fredde Lanka:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
Wow.
Fredde Lanka:
I think it happens more often than people might think, cause I think that's how they get a lot of new people in there, but then it's the difficulty when they speak to someone who's like an individual maker as if they're a brand which doesn't really work. Because you can't really apply the same mentality to a single person as you do to a big brand. Like a big homeware brand that has a factory that they make things in. I was just making things from my Southeast London studio. So it was a bit of a different vibe where they were just like, yeah, do this, do this. And I was like, okay, but yeah...
Steve Folland:
So if that opportunity was to come around again?..
Fredde Lanka:
I would say no to it. Especially now I do more things to make me a bit more happy than like mass producing of ceramics. So now I run my youth group and I have my illustration practice and I also teach illustration at university. So I kinda have a few more things to give me more joy because they're not as repetitive as making the same mug a hundred times, if that makes sense.
Steve Folland:
It's interesting. Yeah. So it's not just about the stability of a big job or the money of a big job, it's about spreading it out and enjoying what you do.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. I think I get quite bored quite quickly cause my attention span isn't that long. So if I do the same thing too many times, I probably just naturally would want to switch and do something else. I don't just get stuck in that rut, so normally I would go in between doing illustration work, ceramic work and then education work and it kinda bounces off each other to help my mind feel a bit more nourished I guess, or inspired.
Steve Folland:
And so how did the illustration work take off? Like it wasn't like, Harrods suddenly ordered 60,000 tea towels?
Fredde Lanka:
No, that was a bit more like a slow run I think. It kind of just happened gradually. But even when I was doing my ceramics, I was still quite productive and doing these little mini comics or was just doing simple drawings of people or sceneries and things like that. I probably wouldn't say that my illustration career became more stable until maybe last year when the lockdowns happened. Because I'd got illustration work here and there and as a queer person I normally would get a big commission doing Pride, because it's tokenism because that's when they need the gay illustrator to come out of his little dungeon and draw something for them. And then they ignore you for the rest of the year. But since lockdown happened, I got a lot more stable income. And I got an agent last year, which was helpful as well in regards to someone arguing for like being paid properly and stuff like that as well. So I think the past two years have been quite like good for just my illustration work. And this allowed me to do a bit more big things like that. Cause I think before that I would only get like big jobs during June, which is Pride month.
Steve Folland:
And did you go out to get an agent or did they come to you?
Fredde Lanka:
I was hassling her since I graduated - really funny if she listens to this cause we have a good relationship now, but I was just very keen of working with someone from that agency. But then she ended up starting her own agency last year and she asked me if I wanted to come aboard cuz she thought I was like reasy for it then, which felt really good. It was quite an affirming moment for me.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. But that initial rejection didn't put you off at all?
Fredde Lanka:
Not really. I guess I was fresh out of uni. I wasn't really sure what direction I was going in myself either. And when I do look at my illustration work from back then compared to now, my work is way more confident than it used to be. Sometimes it's good to just meet people and then if you need more time to either just work on your own practice and figure out what you want to do, then I think that's a good thing. And just getting a rejection first doesn't mean that they don't want to hear from you in the future. So I think that might be like a good advice for people to be honest.
Steve Folland:
I mean, you mentioned being ignored the rest of the year outside Pride, but for that to happen, that must have meant that you were perhaps right from the start putting yourself out there to create the artwork that people would see now if they go to your website which shows your values?
Fredde Lanka:
Mm, no, I guess I've been quite focused on like, I mean, I've done quite a lot of work with community projects and I did quite a lot like work with The Outside Project, which is like the UK's first LGBTQI+ homeless shelter. And I've done a lot of posters for club nights and venues that are queer venues and queer club nights here in London. So that was quite a big part of my income in regards to illustration, just doing posters for events for people. And eventually that also leads to bigger jobs. But I've done quite a lot of... I don't know how you describe it... I wouldn't say like internet projects, but just with people that I've met in person here through just networking within the queer community and people tell their friends about the work that I do.
Fredde Lanka:
And sometimes it's for charity events and sometimes it's for bigger things. And I guess those kinds of things meant that I got like a little bit of reputation in the night scene or nightlife here. And I've gotten other jobs via that cuz people went to those venues, saw the poster and they were like, oh, who made this? And then they contacted me because of that. So it was quite good exposure - having all these posters plastered all over east London so people could see them. So I guess that's like kind of like how I was like maintaining my illustration practice in like a commercial sense, since I was graduating as well.
Steve Folland:
Is there ever a dilemma or an issue where you get asked to do things for free? Or there's almost this, 'can you do it for free' hanging over you? Because you know, it's a good cause or it's something you believe in? How do you address that when it shows up?
Fredde Lanka:
I think when you're out of school and you might not really know like systems of power and how all of that works. And you know, if a grassroots organization reaches out to me and asks me to do a poster, I would probably be the first person to say yes and do it for nothing if it's for something that I believe in. But if it would be like a sports club for straight people, I wouldn't give a shit because I'm like, I don't really care for this. Like I'd rather just work on my own stuff. But if it's like a queer organization that reaches out to me, I'm more than happy to give discounts or talk about what budgets they have. But then if you work with like a bigger queer charity, they have money because they have funding, so they should pay you properly.
Fredde Lanka:
So it's like things like that you start to take into account and you learn more and more and you kind of know when people are kind of trying to take the piss and trying to like see what they can get out of you instead of just being upfront with their budget. So now if people say that they wanna do it for free, I make quite a hard cut on what I would be prepared to do and how much I would be prepared to do for free. And then if people wanna pay me, I usually say, just tell me what the budget is and I can tell you what I can do for that money rather than you having a back and forth with me. It just goes quicker that way I feel.
Steve Folland:
You said things picked up during the lockdowns over the last couple of years. Was there anything in particular that happened? Because actually you also said you got lots of work out of designing posters for nightclubs or events and clearly that sort of stuff wasn't happening...
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah, I think I had a bit of a chaotic start to the lockdowns and because all of my teaching jobs kind of disappeared. I wasn't really sure what was gonna happen. So I kind of didn't really have any income at the start of the first lockdowns. I kind of just post it on Instagram, does anyone want a cheap digital portrait? And then I kind of drew like hundreds of these portraits for people which ended up then becoming how I would sustain myself for a while. So I just drew portraits for a couple of months there. And then Pride month came and... Just to rewind... When the lockdown happened as well, a few of my friends started this night called Queer House Party, which was like one of the first online on Zoom club nights for queer people.
Fredde Lanka:
And I was doing their illustration work as well. So I got noticed quite well for doing their work and doing these portraits that I was doing. And I got quite a lot of things from that, if that makes sense? So that's kind of something that spiralled into quite a lot of attention that I wasn't really prepared for. Cause I didn't really think it was gonna lead anywhere, but now, I mean, I've been working with Queer House Party now since then. And I've gotten other jobs by people going to those events and seeing those illustrations and via the portraits as well. Like someone that bought a portrait for their friend, maybe their friend worked somewhere and they wanted to employ me to do something for their company or people would just see them on Instagram and be like, Hey, we like that, you should do something like that for us.
Steve Folland:
So cool. Is it like a snowball effect?
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah, kind of. And then the youth group that I run now also started in that period. And that's also grown really quickly and now we're funded by Arts Council and we run weekly sessions. So that's also something that kinda grew out of it. So I guess after like a year of lockdowns, I was probably more financially stable than I've been since I graduated.
Steve Folland:
And the youth group - is that the Queer Youth Art Collective?
Fredde Lanka:
Yes, exactly.
Steve Folland:
So how did you get into starting that?
Fredde Lanka:
Before lockdown, I think in 2018 - I did a lot of work for Camden Arts Centre - running their families programme and then I moved on to their youth groups that they do on Saturdays and that's like a general youth group, but they did all of these like amazing art things, but me and my colleague Latisha were working there together, both queer people, also kind of noticing that there's something that a general art group can't really provide for like young queer people that wanna develop their art because there's a lot of things that topics that queer people wanna discuss in regards to just body, sexuality, politics that in a room full of potentially straight people who don't understand where you then have to justify all these things. It doesn't really necessarily feel quite safe.
Fredde Lanka:
So I had done a few workshops with this group based in Hackney (in East London) called Indigo, which is like a mental health group for young LGBT people based in Hackney or surrounding areas. And there I met this art therapist named Susy Langsdale. So I reached out to them and we decided to start this group together. So we ran a pilot of it in 2019, which was just this like initial thing where we just invited a bunch of young people and artists to come and tell us what they think that group should be. So it wouldn't just be our voices deciding what people needed. And then after that pilot, we had all these like big plans of what was gonna happen. But then COVID happened and everything fell apart.
Fredde Lanka:
But then I kind of just saw that there was like an opportunity to take it online because there was people just being stuck at home, needing something to do. So I got a little small pot of money from this organization called Homotopia, who had advertised that they were seeking applications for these grants that they were giving out in response to COVID. So I got that. And then I just started running it online from home on Zoom and at the start it was just me and this artist named Mira who kind of joined us as well - fused our resources a little bit and like ran this group from, I think, April to July. And then it kind of just took off from there. And my friend Dex came on board and started helping me writing funding bids.
Fredde Lanka:
Cause we saw that there was quite a big need for this group. And now we're at the end of our first funded year by Arts Council where we now run sessions in person and online at the same time. So people can join from Zoom or they can come to our London space where we have like free arts supplies. So also a snowball effect there, I feel. But I wouldn't have been able to maintain it if I didn't get all the support from people like Dex or the people that we work with. We have a long list of artists who run workshops with us now and all of the young people that come to tell us what they want as well, that we listen to and do our best to please.
Steve Folland:
Ah, man, I love it. And also it's interesting about like sometimes, we think here's an idea... and you feel like it all has to be on your own back when in fact you can collaborate with and that there's groups out there who have money to help with these kind of things.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. But then applications and stuff is a bit, you know, excluding - English isn't my first language and academic English is definitely not something that I have to my disposal, which is why I needed someone else to do that for me. When you do collaborations with people, it's about filling in the gaps, seeing what you can do for other people. And that's kind of how I view when I work with grassroots organizations as an illustrator, I see what I can do for them, with the tool of the art that I make, how can I help them get their message across or boost it - it's like, what can I be of use for that they can't do themselves. And that's how you should operate in groups I feel.
Steve Folland:
Brilliant. And so how do you divide up your time? Whether it's your day or your week, between all of these things, is it your logistical mind working wonders?!
Fredde Lanka:
Uh, not really. I think I do have a tendency to work a bit too much more than I should. But thanks to a lot of good friends now I'm getting a bit better at setting boundaries for when that happens. So at the moment I run the youth group on a Sunday, which means that I force myself to take at least one day off in the week as well, because I don't get a full week. And I just make sure that I take days off and don't work. Which means that nowadays I don't post every day on Instagram because I just need time to not do that and do something else. I have a little bit of a tendency that anything that I start as a creative project becomes 'a project' and not just like 'a hobby'. So I'm trying to teach myself to restrain myself a little bit more with that, which works well sometimes. And sometimes I kind of lose control and just like, I don't know, like just go into it without thinking and you just have so much energy and you can't really stop yourself.
Steve Folland:
Well, maybe it's that same force though, which also creates all the good stuff too.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah, I think so. But I think it's good to acknowledge that it's okay to take breaks. You don't need to be seen at all times. You don't need to be that active. You can just take a holiday from all of those things, if you need to and just focus on yourself. Obviously now I'm in a very privileged position. I have stable jobs, which means that's more easy for me to do now than it was when I was only working on the back of my freelance work. So you need to take that with a pinch of salt cuz not everyone has the luxury of doing that.
Steve Folland:
Of stepping away from social media.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. I definitely felt I was like forced to be on there quite a lot because if I didn't check my messages and stuff, I might lose out on potential work or if I didn't post that particular day, maybe a person wouldn't see it that could potentially give me work. But now I have a bit more of a relaxed relationship to that entire like exposure mindset.
Steve Folland:
And how have you got better at setting boundaries?
Fredde Lanka:
I think I just decide, okay, today is not a work day. And then I might like do a little sketch if I feel like it, but only if it's something that I wanna do and it makes me happy. Cuz I love drawing. I always love drawing. It's hard to say oh you shouldn't draw today because drawing's work, if there's something that you really want to do, but you go on walks, you do other things, exercise, read comics, play video games, whatever you need to do to just like not focus on showing yourself off for other potential clients or people.
Steve Folland:
And you have a shop as well?
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. I stopped doing that for the past year. I think I haven't really on a proper shop release since Christmas 2020.
Steve Folland:
So when you say 'a release', so you tended to create one thing and then push that out and then stop again?
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. I used to like make batches of ceramics. I then posted it on my Etsy so people could buy them and then I would make another batch or I would make a batch and take to a market. But now because I've been quite busy, I had quite a lot of illustration work in all kinds of different projects. And then together with my teaching and my youth work, then I didn't really have time to make any ceramics. And it was quite nice to take a break from just answering messages on Etsy and going to the post office. Cuz normally I would rely on the fact that Christmas was a period, but I needed to like produce a lot of ceramics to sell to people. Cause it's one of the most financially sound times to sell work. But last year I kind of skipped it and it was really nice to do that. So now I'm kinda slowly starting to make ceramics again for myself, but I will see if I make that into a shop release...
Steve Folland:
It sounds like quite a nice place to be. To not feel like you are beholden to it.
Fredde Lanka:
I think it's quite important for like anyone who's a freelance creative to have some form of thing that you can kinda choose what to do with and when, so it's kind of your thing. This is why I don't really like take commissions for ceramics anymore because I'd rather just make the ceramics that I wanna make. And then if people wanna buy them, they wanna buy them. But I'm not gonna take a special commission, because I don't really need to at the moment, which again is a very privileged precision to be in. Even though I have worked really hard to be here, but I'm very lucky to have that.
Steve Folland:
And actually when it comes to certain jobs and working with your values, deciding to focus on 'actually, this is what I wanna put out into the world', has helped your business grow?
Fredde Lanka:
I think in regards to thinking about politics and ethics, I definitely haven't made as much money as I probably could have. It's the same thing I mentioned earlier about tokenism as a queer person and I'm pretty outspoken about my politics on my Instagram and with what I repost and sometimes with what I draw as well. And this isn't me shit-talking about other illustrators or whatever, but obviously there is a type of artist on social media that doesn't really engage with those things and kind of just focus on like a craft of drawing things that are nice to look at, look beautiful... But it doesn't really like tap into any like pools of politics or ethics or opinions that are like too radical - not saying that I'm a very radical person cuz I'm pretty vanilla in the circuit of friends that I hang out with I would say.
Fredde Lanka:
But I do think that is something that has meant that a lot of clients would look at my work and think, oh, he's the person that that's those kinds of things. We can only use him for those kinds of things. And I feel like I used to feel a bit bad about that when I was younger, but now I don't really care because the paths that have opened up to me because I've done that work and focus on those things are things that leave me feeling more fulfilled than it would doing an advertisement for like Coca-Cola if that makes sense?
Steve Folland:
Yeah. It's really inetresting.
Fredde Lanka:
And it's the same with, I guess like making merch as an illustrator to take to markets. Like I don't really make clothes or pins and things like that. Cause all of these things are made in factories and not a lot of people can kind of confirm what working relationships are or how much people are being paid and like finding someone to make anything within the UK that isn't just like plastic based stuff. I don't really engage with that kind of production either. That's why I make my ceramics. And obviously ceramics has like a different way of looking at like carbon footprints and like mining of the planet by at least it's a bit more contained and I know who makes the piece and stuff like that. So I feel like I have a bit more control over that kind of thing. Yeah.
Steve Folland:
If you could tell your younger self, one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Fredde Lanka:
Mm, often when I speak to younger people in general now I'm always scared that I'm gonna sound like a freaking pessimist. And be like, 'don't do this'. Because if my younger self could see what I do now, they would be like, 'oh my God, I can't believe that's what you did!' Because when I was like a teenager, I didn't really believe in my illustrations. I grew up in a place where people don't really see that as a possible career outcome. I took a lot of risks in just going against that at that age and just seeing what would happen. So I guess I would just tell myself, you're doing the right thing - it's put you in a position where you can't believe the kind of things you are gonna be included in, working with and the people you get to collaborate with.
Fredde Lanka:
Because as much as I do complain about like things like burning out or people not paying you fairly and things like that - it's been really hard work and maybe that wasn't the healthiest thing at certain points in my life... but I have learnt so much from it and I am extremely proud of the things that I've achieved and the people I get to work with. And especially now with the youth group that I run - that is like such an amazing thing that I get to be a part of. And I get introduced to all of these crazy, amazing, beautiful ideas every week when we meet up. So I would just say - you have a lot to look forward to, but just be careful to make sure you feed yourself and don't work too much.
Steve Folland:
You mentioned burnout. How do you avoid it now?
Fredde Lanka:
I think if I get the feeling that I'm getting close to that, I take the rest of the day off, zone out. At the moment I'm playing the new Pokemon game, cause that's something you can do and focus on. Or I go for a walk, hang out with friends, might draw, but I will draw for myself. I won't touch any work. I won't answer any emails. Or I will just postpone certain commissions and ask, oh, can I get an extended deadline? Cause most of the time people will say, 'yes, that's fine, of course'.
Steve Folland:
You can recognize it coming now.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. I definitely don't have the same tolerance for stress that I did when I was like 26 now. So I can kind of feel, there's a little tingle in your stomach and you're like, oh no, wait, maybe I need a break now. Maybe I just need to ask for some more time to do this so I can rest up. And I guess when you start off it's kind of hard to ask for those things, because you don't know what's gonna happen. If people are gonna think that you are weak or not capable, but in reality, everyone has moments like that and deadlines are just made up dates - they don't actually mean anything - that's kind of the truth. Any deadline that anyone said to you is just a made up figure. And it might be for a historical date or event, but even if that's the case, it's all just in people's minds. Deadlines don't exist really in that sense.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. I love that. It feels like the there's an importance in community as well to you.
Fredde Lanka:
Yeah. Cause I started my illustration career drawing all these posters for club nights and stuff and people were paying me. It's not these high budget commercial projects, but the venues of east London and just London in general, they have employed me or the people that run events that have employed me, they sustained my life for a good couple of years. And I have a lot to thank for that. So it would be weird of me to capitalize on queer culture in that way and not try to give anything back. Cuz if you're a queer artist that does a lot of work around like queerness and identity and you get these high paid jobs, like I took a job from WhatsApp for Pride last year, which was a really well paid job. But then if I would've taken that and not engaged with the community myself at all, then I think that would've made me feel quite shit about myself.
Steve Folland:
Fred, it's been so good to, to talk to you and it's, and it's interesting actually, you, you know, like that whole, you do one thing, there's like a knock on..., You were just for example, doing in lockdown, digital portraits, which sustained you, but also that knock on effect of who knows where they're gonna end up and who might see your work. And it was one of those portraits in lockdown that then got mentioned on the Homo Sapiens podcast.
Fredde Lanka:
Yes, exactly!
Steve Folland:
I happened to be editing it and then went, oh, I'm gonna check out their work.
Fredde Lanka:
So funny.
Steve Folland:
Off I went down that rabbit hole - yeah, it's lovely how these things work. For now Fredde, thank you so much and all the best with being freelance!
Fredde Lanka:
Cool. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
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