Health Copywriter Louise Shanahan

Episode Intro

About this episode…

HEALTH COPYWRITER LOUISE SHANAHAN

Straight out of university Louise couldn’t travel and start her career. Instead she had to start treatment for a major health scare.

On the mend, she found a job in government, but decided to focus on making a difference in Health issues.

10 years on she realised she didn’t have to follow this government path for the rest of her life. She could become self employed. She could use her expertise in Health to start of niched as a health copywriter.

Read the highlights in the next tab.

Highlights

You’re NOT STUCK ON A PATH

After 10 years working in government, Louise knew this wasn’t the path she wanted to be on the rest of her career…

“I still had this niggling feeling that I really wanted to do something else, to be in charge of my own destiny and not sitting in meetings all day.
I got obsessed with the idea that you could actually decide what you do with your life. You're not stuck on a path. You don't have to be planning meetings for planning meetings for planning meetings for another 20 years.
I knew I wanted to work for myself. I wasn't really sure how, and so I kind of looked at my experience and my skills and my interests...”

POWER OF NICHE AND EXPERTISE

Louise worked on health issues whilst in her government role and when she decided to go freelance, it was natural for her to use that passion and expertise in Health to be her copywriting niche…

“I think that's a really good way to be able to stand out and differentiate yourself from everyone else and use your unique set of skills and experience to your advantage.
If I had just started out as a brand new copywriter or a brand new business, it would've been really challenging. Whereas this was a way to really focus on what I was kind of already doing. So I didn't really have that imposter syndrome because I was genuinely talking about things that I knew about - that made the marketing much easier, made decision making a lot easier. And because you're able to come across as an expert, because you basically are an expert in that one very niche thing, you can charge more.
It's definitely something that I would recommend people think about.”

THE PLAN YOU CAN STICK TO

When choosing how to spend her time ‘marketing’ herself, Louise has come to realise you have to listen to what it is you like doing…

“The only plan that's gonna work is the one that you can stick to.
There's no point coming up with this fancy LinkedIn strategy if you actually hate spending your time there or you're gonna get burnt out or you're too busy with client work and you can't stick to it and it just gets really stressful.”

WORK LIFE BALANCING YOUR DAY

Louise feels like she never stops thinking about work and that her to-do list is never ending. That’s how it might feel spread out across a year, BUT is her work-life balance so bad when you look at her day-to-day?..

“I don't really work that many hours. I'm not working long, long hours during the week.
I probably just do about five hours a day, but they're spread out.
I like to have walks and a long lunch and all that kind of thing. So day to day, I think I've figured out the time management thing… I just never stop.”

GETTING TESTIMONIALS

Louise has systems for pretty much everything in her business. The way she gets testimonials is one of them…

“I like to do it in two ways. I ask for a testimonial just as the project has finished. Hopefully the client is on a high after working with you. Get something really quick while it's all fresh in their mind.
You can ask them about why they chose you in the first place. That's really important because that will help you write your copy as well - it tells you how your future clients are feeling right now. If you can ask your current clients how they felt before they hired you. So that sort of thing is really useful.
But I also like to ask for feedback a little bit further down the line as well. Maybe six months later, go back and check in how they're doing and see if they've got any data at that point about how the project has turned out. And then you can find out more about the impact of the work that you did together.
So while the very first testimonial that you get initially is about the experience, the later one could be about the impact of the work. And that's really important. That's really powerful when you're speaking to new clients - you show the actual results that you've got for other people. And again, that's really useful for your copy.”

NARROW DOWN YOUR SERVICES

Louise has a very well defined niche, but even within that she listens to what her clients need and focuses her offering…

“Over time I've really narrowed down my services quite a lot. So I know exactly what I'm doing with them. I know how to price them. I know how to talk about them. I've been able to build up a portfolio that really includes the kind of projects that I want to do more of. So I just keep emphasizing them. And then when I'm speaking to new clients, it just feels a lot easier.”

“It’s almost like therapy for your business.

I've worked with a business coach. That was very useful to just kind of sit back and look at that bigger picture. It's almost like therapy for your business.”
**Louise Shanahan, Health Copywriter**

Links

More from Louise Shanahan

Louise’s website
Louise on Twitter
Louise’s podcast

More from Steve Folland

Steve on Twitter

Steve on Instagram

Steve’s freelance site

Steve’s Being Freelance vlog

The Doing It For The Kids podcast

Transcript

Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance Health Copywriter Louise Shanahan

Steve Folland:

As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?

Louise Shanahan:

So I was actually a civil servant for 10 years before I started freelancing. And in fact, before I started copywriting. So it perhaps wasn't the most obvious path to becoming a copywriter. When I finished uni like lots of people, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I had studied philosophy and international relations and I thought maybe philosophy, it would be a nice sensible career. And I decided that the best place to do that would be in the Netherlands. So I had my plan. I was gonna go there, do a post-grad degree, see where I ended up after that. But just before I set off, I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer. So I had to put my plans on hold. Happily, the treatment all worked out fine, I'm fine now, so that's all okay. But it did mean that I wasn't able to go and be an international woman of mystery.

Louise Shanahan:

So I ended up getting a temp job in government and then, as it goes, that turned into a permanent job. I got promoted a few times and before I knew it was 10 years later and I was staring down this career that I felt like I hadn't really chosen. So I was starting to ask myself: is this really the path that I want to stay on? And you know, obviously I'd had this health scare at quite a young age and I'd become really interested in health and fitness. I started weightlifting and running, got into kale smoothies, all of that. And over the years, I started to think that working in that industry, in health and fitness, would be something that I would enjoy. Maybe I could be a personal trainer or something. But I felt that if I really wanted to help other people improve their health and wellbeing, then surely being in government is a good place to do that.

Louise Shanahan:

Surely I can have a bigger impact by helping to implement policies that effect the entire population. So I was kind of dragging my heels about making a big change. I decided to do a master's in health policy and I moved into public health, still staying in government. I was specifically working on physical activity and that kind of thing. So I was still able to pursue what I was interested in, but staying in government and hopefully have that bigger impact. But I still had this niggling feeling that I really wanted to do something else, to be in charge of my own destiny and not sitting in meetings all day. So I had these long commutes to work on the bus and I would listen to these personal development podcasts, like the Tim Ferris show, things like that and business books.

Louise Shanahan:

And I got obsessed with the idea that you could actually decide what you do with your life. You're not stuck on a path. You don't have to be planning meetings for planning meetings for planning meetings for another 20 years. You know, that was kind of what I was doing at that time and it was what seemed to be on the cards for the rest of my career. So I knew I wanted to work for myself. I wasn't really sure how, and so I kind of looked at my experience and my skills and my interests. I had all this experience in health at this point. I had a lot of experience in writing and communicating health information and working with lots of different organizations on developing health behavior, change strategies and that kind of thing. So somehow health copywriting just sort of hit me like a bolt of lightning. And I thought, oh, I could do that. That would be the perfect fit. And so that was about five or six years ago and here we are.

Steve Folland:

Wow. How did you go about getting those first clients? Were you still in your government job at the time?

Louise Shanahan:

No, I wasn't. I kind of made this little transition. I spent about a year kind of psyching myself up, learning about copywriting, doing a few copywriting courses, saving as much money as possible so that I would have a buffer. And then when I did finally make the jump, I was able to take a career break at first. So if it did turn out to be a total disaster, I could always go back, although after a month I was pretty sure that this was what I wanted to do. So I was very lucky to have quite a few different safety nets in there, which was extremely fortunate. So my first few clients were people that I already kind of knew in those health and third sector organizations. People that I'd worked with in my job in government who were looking for writers. So I was able to use that network to begin with, to get the first few clients. So yeah, it was a bit of trial and error, but I had also given myself quite a big safety net as well.

Steve Folland:

That's so cool. And like, it's quite rare not to have done it alongside the other - the fact that you just took a clean break and then announced to the world, actually, this is what I'm gonna do now.

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah. I think I was a bit paranoid of... you know, being in government, always following all the rules and wanting to make sure that there was no kind of conflict of interest. So I wanted to make sure there was a very clear cut between what I was doing there and what I was gonna do after that. But yeah, it was quite a jump because it was a job that I hadn't done before and I hadn't run a business before, so it was all completely new, but it was just such an exciting adventure. There was just this really strong feeling, the sense that I think I can make this work. So yeah, just jumped for it in the end.

Steve Folland:

How quickly did it take off for you?

Louise Shanahan:

I think it all happened pretty quickly. I had a couple of clients very early on. I posted something on my Facebook page and I don't even use Facebook now, but at the time, it just shows how you should just put yourself out there. I posted just to my friends and family that I was gonna be making this change and an old school friend got in touch and said, oh, guess what? I work in a marketing agency, we should have a chat. And so it just kind of showed me that, oh, okay , so if I just keep telling people this is what I do eventually someone's going to get in touch and say, this might be something that we could work together. So yeah, I was quite lucky to get a couple of projects fairly early on that kept me busy. I had this buffer, so I wasn't too worried about the money initially in making an income. And I just kind of used the projects that I did to begin with to start building my portfolio and just kind of grew it from there.

Steve Folland:

Yeah. If we were to go back and look at your website back then, what would that have been like?

Louise Shanahan:

Oh God, I don't wanna go back and look at it. Websites are always kind of a work in progress, aren't they? I always say this to clients, not just to get them to keep working with me. You have to keep going back and evolving what you're saying, changing your message for what you're doing now. I can barely even remember what my site was - something very cringy, very basic. I think when I first started out, because I'd kind of come from this idea that I might wanna do something health and fitness related, it was quite focused on that. And then I quickly realized that actually that particular client group are maybe not the ones with the kind of budget to hire a copywriter. And also I think the kind of people who have the sort of internal drive and discipline to turn their hobby into their profession, also like to learn the different skills that are needed to run their business. So a lot of the personal trainers that I spoke to about copywriting were really interested in learning how to do the copywriting themselves. Mm. So that was fun, but it very quickly became apparent that it wasn't gonna be a good route to go down in terms of finding clients.

Steve Folland:

Interesting. So actually the clients were more likely to be what, like medical companies?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah. That's right. Healthcare organizations. I do lots of work with biotech, medical innovation, medical device companies now, which I'm quite lucky because not that many other people seem that interested in doing these jobs. So that works out pretty well for me.

Steve Folland:

And did you start reaching out to them?

Louise Shanahan:

I didn't really. I used a lot of LinkedIn for that. I posted a lot about what I was interested in, sharing what was happening in the industry that I found interesting, talking about my process and previous projects that I'd done and just kind of getting a few contacts. And I think because there aren't that many, or at least I haven't come across that many people that specialize just in this kind of copywriting, it was quite easy to stand out from everyone else. So if I had gone from government to copywriting completely, like I wasn't a copywriter before that, so completely starting from scratch to stand out amongst a large number of generalist copywriters would've been quite difficult, but this was a way for me to use my unique experience and expertise and background to help clients on some very specific problems. So yeah, this is why I'm a big fan of nicheing as well.

Steve Folland:

And did you share your story? The fact that you'd had that health scare?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, it's definitely part of the story because it's a big reason why I do this. I think it depends on the clients that I'm talking to, which aspects of my background I kind of emphasize. I mentioned that I'd done this masters in health policy, so if I'm working with organizations that maybe want to try and influence government in some way, then 'that' would be interesting to them. If I'm working with the sort of solo business owners who maybe work directly with consumers, then maybe my personal background is a bit more relevant there because I can really empathize with their clients. So, yeah, it's definitely a big part of the story. And I think we should be sharing our story as freelancers because we should be thinking of ourselves as businesses, but ultimately people are hiring us because of who we are. So you don't have to share everything about yourself. I do it in a kind of deliberate way. But I do think that sharing your story helps people connect with you and find different things in common.

Steve Folland:

Where do you share it?

Louise Shanahan:

It's on my website. I talk about it on LinkedIn. Those are really the two main places where I do marketing, I would say.

Steve Folland:

So LinkedIn is your main way of putting yourself out there.

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, that's right. I think probably about a third of my clients come from LinkedIn and the remainder come from referrals and repeat clients. I do use Twitter as well. So probably I shouldn't spend so much time on Twitter!

Steve Folland:

So how much time would you say you put into LinkedIn given how much it brings back to you? Do you have a rhythm or schedule to it?

Louise Shanahan:

Not really. I'm quite flexible with it. I think that the only plan that's gonna work is the one that you can stick to. So there's no point coming up with this fancy LinkedIn strategy if you actually hate spending your time there or you're gonna get burnt out or you're too busy with client work and you can't stick to it and it just gets really stressful. So generally I try to just be consistently visible: show up fairly regularly, engage with other people. And you know, it's not just about sharing your own content all the time. If you don't have enough time to create content of your own, just amplifying other people, people's content, replying and cheering them on and just kind of getting to know people and build relationships in that way really goes a long way because then those people might hire you or they might mention your name to other people who might hire you. So there's a few different ways to approach it. But yeah, generally just trying to be helpful and be genuine.

Steve Folland:

How have your services changed over the past five, six years? It sounds like you are listening to your clients and adjusting.

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah. They have changed quite a lot. I think when I started out, I felt like I need to do every kind of copywriting. So website copywriting, blog posts, email marketing, sales pages, ads, copy - everything. And it's so overwhelming because each one of those things has its own set of best practices. And there are different skills and expertise that you can develop and all these different things. And it was really overwhelming and I felt like each project I started, if it was very different to the one that I did just before I was kind of starting from scratch each time thinking, oh, so how do I do this? Let's figure it out again, which wasn't that efficient. And it meant that it was quite tricky to think about pricing and talk about my services on calls with clients. I was always just having to start that thought process from the beginning again. So over time I've really narrowed down my services quite a lot. So I know exactly what I'm doing with them. I know how to price them. I know how to talk about them. I've been able to build up a portfolio that really includes the kind of projects that I want to do more of. So I just keep emphasizing them. And then when I'm speaking to new clients, it just feels a lot easier.

Steve Folland:

So, you have a business, or website name - 'The Copy prescription'. So good. Is that something you started out with or did it come later?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, I did start out with that. I was in two minds about whether I should use my own name or whether I should have a business name. And in the end I decided to go with a business name for various reasons. I went through so many different options trying to find the URL. But I quite like the name. It's a bit long-winded and a bit kind of clunky to type sometimes. So that's maybe it's downside, but I think clients find it kind of amusing sometimes. So yeah, it definitely does the job.

Steve Folland:

So that's the main way you put yourself out there then - through LinkedIn in particular and then referrals. Do you blog?

Louise Shanahan:

I do have a blog. That's something that's definitely on my to-do list for 2022. I think I'm really trying to pay attention to the things that actually work. And like I say, narrowing things down, not trying to do everything all at once. So I'm not using Instagram anymore and really focusing on LinkedIn as the way to get new clients and narrowing down the services that I'm offering there. So yeah, I do a bit of blogging. I've got a newsletter, but I'm trying to be a bit more deliberate about thinking about 'what do my clients actually need?' So do they need a newsletter? If someone comes to my website and they probably already know me from LinkedIn anyway, or they've heard my name from somewhere else, which is a very nice feeling to have as well, do they need a newsletter? Are they coming to my website and they already know that they want to talk about a project, maybe the call to action should be go straight to the call rather than saying, 'Hey, let me just distract you with this other thing that I'm doing'. So yeah, I think I'm trying to think about these things a bit more carefully this year and hopefully make life a little bit easier in the process.

Steve Folland:

I like that. Experimenting with it. And so that might mean that you also bin off the newsletter in that case.

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah. I might do that. I don't know. There's definitely a tendency to feel like you have to do everything. If you have a newsletter and you enjoy it and you get lots of clients through it or it's just something that you enjoy doing, that's the main thing, isn't it? I feel like sometimes the newsletter's a bit of a, 'something on my to-do list'. I'm like, 'oh... I have to do that'. And in some ways that's why I've really enjoyed starting a podcast recently because it's something different. When I'm working on writing blog posts or writing a newsletter , that's so similar to what I'm doing for my day job that it's quite nice to have a different format to play with and experiment with outside of that.

Steve Folland:

Yes. The podcast: "15 Minute Freelancer". So it's not aimed at your potential clients?

Louise Shanahan:

No, it's not. Which is an interesting decision, isn't it?

Steve Folland:

Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna judge, cause I'm sitting here making a podcast called Being Freelance. So I've had that same thing as well. I did it because it just, it felt like a good thing to do, but yeah, in hindsight, you know, it's not a client thing. What was your thinking?

Louise Shanahan:

Well, so this started as a kind of fun project in one of the first lockdowns during the pandemic. Really long dark days and we weren't able to go out and do things. I just felt like all I'm doing is work. So let's do a bit more work! I was looking for some sort of fun project where I could learn something new and I really enjoy talking about freelancing and I really want other people to feel like it's possible to have a sustainable and successful career doing freelancing. And I just felt like this could be a fun way to talk about that. I figured that a lot of freelancers struggle with finding time to work on their business rather than in it. So if they could spare just 15 minutes a week to think about the bigger picture or specific questions that arise, then that might really help.

Louise Shanahan:

And yeah, it's been a really fun process. I still feel like I'm learning so much. And you know, when I was starting it I was thinking, oh, there are already so many amazing freelance podcasts out there like this one, obviously like who am I to even think of doing something like this? But actually I think we've all got slightly different things that we like to talk about, different things to offer. And there's always a different way to do things. So, you know, I wasn't thinking I'm gonna do a long podcast interviewing people because Steve's already doing this in such an amazing way., there's no need for another one. You know, what could I do that's different that I'm gonna enjoy that might still be useful to other people. And I thought recording a nice little 15 minute bite size podcast will be so easy, but that's not really true either.

Steve Folland:

A lot of the episodes, it's almost like a blog post, an audio blog post - like you thinking about a particular topic to do with freelancing. Has that helped you with your business sitting there and thinking about it before you hit record?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, it definitely has. I felt so grateful when I was starting out as a new freelancer for the advice and mentorship that I was given by other people and you know, I kind of want to pass that on or pay that forward and support other people starting that journey. But there's definitely an element, a selfish element to it as well. You know, the topics that I decide to talk about each week are often things that I've been dealing with that week. Like maybe I had an awkward call with a client and I think, what should I have done in this situation? Or why was this difficult or how can I remind myself of the way that I would like to do this in an ideal world? So yeah, definitely having that outlet, having that way to express, you know, what would I tell someone else who is doing this, is definitely a lesson to myself sometimes.

Steve Folland:

Even though it's not aimed at your potential clients, has it helped you in your business?

Louise Shanahan:

I think it has. It's a bit tricky to attribute any new clients specifically to the podcast, but I've definitely had an increase in traffic to my website. And I think I've had quite a few clients who say they've listened to it. So it might be existing clients who've listened and they quite like getting to hear behind the scenes and what it's like for a freelancer. So it's been quite useful for existing clients cause they understand a bit more about how I work and that kind of thing. And I think for new clients who've come across it, yeah, the same thing. They can hear my personality, they can hear the way that I approach my business. That's obviously not the goal. The goal is really just a fun side project that may or may not help other people. But yeah, I think that has been a little bit of a knock on effect on business as well.

Steve Folland:

What have you found the bigger challenges of being freelance?

Louise Shanahan:

I think the biggest challenge for me is probably having a work life balance or a 'work life integration' as some people like to put it. I I find it so hard to switch off and take time off. I think this is probably a really common challenge for freelancers where you are your business. There's always more to be done isn't there? Even, you know, like today I don't have any client deadlines, but I've still got a huge long list of all the different things that I could be doing to attract new clients, to write a new marketing plan, to sort out my Free Agent account, you know, all of these different things. There's so much that we can be doing. And so it's really difficult or at least I find it really difficult to switch off and take time off. I'm always kind of thinking about work and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because you know, I do really love what I do. I'm always having new ideas, which is a lot of fun, but yeah, it's probably not that healthy. I think I do need to get better at planning further into the future so I can have holidays. Otherwise I just go from one project to the next. And then, you know, before you know it it's two years and you haven't had any time off,

Steve Folland:

Is it as bad as that?

Louise Shanahan:

No, I have had some time off in the last two years, but I don't know if the last two pandemic years count, do they? That said, I don't really work that many hours. I'm not working long, long hours during the week. I probably just do about five hours a day, but they're spread out. I like to have walks and a long lunch and all that kind of thing. So day to day, I think I've figured out the time management thing. I just never stop.

Steve Folland:

You see, that's a good balance in itself though osn't it?

Louise Shanahan:

I think so. It works for me. I really enjoy it. I can't imagine switching off for a whole weekend and not at least doing one little thing here and there. But I do think it's important to give our brains a break from the business side of things at some point.

Steve Folland:

Beause it is quite possible just to work through a lunch break. To feel like you should be sitting there for eight hours. When in fact maybe you can do it in five.

Louise Shanahan:

I just can't do it. I couldn't sit and concentrate on writing for the whole day. My brain just runs out of juice after a certain amount of time. I've been experimenting with theme days for a while, and that's worked quite well or even just having chunks of your day, where you focus on a particular kind of work. So ideally I might do all client work on Mondays and Tuesdays and then Wednesdays a day for marketing and then Thursdays a day for all the kind of admin stuff and Fridays, maybe just a day where you do whatever you didn't manage to do on the other days. And, and that has worked really well when I've managed to stick to it, but it's quite tricky. Life doesn't always work out that way. I do think there's a lot of value in being able to decide that you're gonna spend a certain amount of time on a certain kind of task and you're not context switching and jumping from one thing to another all the time, or answering calls or checking your emails in the middle of trying to write a white paper or whatever the project is. It just doesn't work. You're just gonna get distracted and your focus just disappears, but yeah, it's easier said than done for sure.

Steve Folland:

You mentioned the 'bigger picture'. Are you somebody who sets goals? Who takes time to sit back and think about things?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, I do try and think about this. I think if you don't make any plans or you don't set any goals, then your business will just kind of plod along in its default setting, which might be fine. That might be a good setting. But if you have things in mind that you'd like to do in future, or you've got ideas about how you want your business to evolve, then you do kind of have to make some plans for that. So, yeah, I think I tend not to set very specific goals. It's more about things like time management or things I want to get better at. Or for example, this year I'd quite like to try and do a few more four day weeks. I haven't been very good at sticking to that and just having a bit more space around the business.

Louise Shanahan:

I feel like at the moment I'm kind of at that growing pain stage where a lot of the systems are ticking along nicely. I've got a really lovely group of clients that I enjoy working with and I could keep doing that for a while, but there's always that kind of itch to scratch about what else could I do or do I want to grow this? Do I want to start hiring more people? And I'm not really sure that that's for me, but it's definitely things that are interesting to think about for sure.

Steve Folland:

You said hiring 'more' people. So does that mean you've hired some people already?

Louise Shanahan:

Oh, well, not really. I do outsource a little bit here and there. I think I've definitely fallen into this autonomy trap where, I started freelancing cause I wanted to work for myself. And then I felt like that meant I had to do absolutely everything myself to the point where you actually have no freedom because you're having to do all this work. So yeah, that's been on my list for this year as well. So I've just started working with a new virtual assistant, which is amazing. And I already feel such a weight off my shoulders and feeling more organized with that and getting help with other things like editing the podcast, which I know absolutely nothing about. So hopefully the quality will be as good as this one soon.

Steve Folland:

What sort of thing is the virtual assistant helping you with?

Louise Shanahan:

That's going to be ad hoc projects. So the way that my client work tends to run is I work on longer projects with people. So I don't actually need a lot of support with inbox management.. So we tend to do longer ad hoc projects. So maybe helping me sort at my Trello boards or, you know, figuring out what my LinkedIn strategy is going to be in doing research to support that - all that sort of thing. You know, the things that are on your to-do list that just keep rolling over into the next month and not ever getting quite done. If I figure out what my plan is gonna be for the newsletter, then they'll be able to help with that too. A lot of experimenting and trial and error.

Steve Folland:

Do you have other freelancers or business mentors or whoever that support you?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, it's, it's kind of all of those things. A lot of the ideas and the systems are in my head. And so working with the VA is amazing because she's helping me put that down into proper systems. But yeah, I do work with other people a lot. I think community is really important as freelancers. You know, when I started out, I thought other copywriters would be my competition, but that's really not the case. Other freelancers in your industry, whichever it is, not just copywriting, they're not the competition, everyone offers something slightly different. So when we see each other as a community, rather than as being in competition with other then the results are better for everyone. And I think I was quite lucky to discover that really early on and you know, through communities like Being Freelance, it's amazing. We've just got this ready made group of people who know how you feel who've been there already and are maybe going through the same issues.

Louise Shanahan:

Everyone's just so generous with their time and advice and that's really been amazing. So that's still a huge part of my freelancing world. I have done quite a few different masterminds and courses and things like that. And I think they're really useful. I think it's good. If you can think about what your goals are for the year and what you want to focus on, it's very easy to get distracted by the next shiny thing isn't it? And think, oh, I'll do that course. I do think that's definitely part of my value system - to keep investing in learning. I've worked with a business coach as well last year, which was really, really helpful, but that was very useful to just kind of sit back and look at that bigger picture and think where do I want to go over the next year? And what am I finding challenging? It's almost like therapy for your business.

Steve Folland:

What did you find you got out of that business therapy?

Louise Shanahan:

That's a big question. I think I've got a really clear idea about what I want my services to look like over the next year and understanding which ones are best from a business point of view, but also which ones are really fulfilling and how can I deliver them in the most effective way that works for clients as well as making business sense for me. Where could I be more efficient with my systems? A lot of mindset stuff as well, especially talking about money or feeling like you have to make up the difference when there's scope creep and things like that, or, you know, being able to set boundaries and stick to them. Having a coach has been so useful to kind of practice some of those conversations, cause even if you've been doing it for a while, there are certain things that you're maybe just used to talking about. So feels a bit easier than it did in the beginning. But as your business grows, there are new challenges and new kind of difficult conversations that you need to have. So that's been really useful. So I would definitely recommend that.

Steve Folland:

How did you know which coach to work with?

Louise Shanahan:

Well, yeah, there are loads and loads of business coaches, especially on LinkedIn. It feels like everyone that pops into your inbox is a business coach, doesn't it? It was through somebody that I knew had worked with other freelancers that I was good friends with. So a word of mouth thing. And I saw what amazing things they were doing and I thought, oh, how are they managing that? Which business coach are they working with? So yeah, it was through referral really - through word of mouth.

Steve Folland:

You've said 'systems' quite a lot. Systems for...

Louise Shanahan:

Systems for all of it really. It's thinking about what the client's journey is when they work with you. How did they first hear about you? So that would be your marketing systems through to how do they make a call? How do you talk to them on the call? How do you put together proposals? How do you then project manage the project that you're working with them? How do you close off the project? Do you have a system for suggesting ways to work together in future and maybe upselling them into other services or do you have a system to just kind of close it off nicely and get a testimonial - that kind of thing. And then all the systems that you need to run your business: the financial stuff, the day to day project management. So yeah, there's a lot of systems.

Steve Folland:

When it comes to getting testimonials. Then how does that work for you?

Louise Shanahan:

I like to do it in two ways. So I like to ask for a testimonial just as the project has finished, hopefully the client is on a high after working with you. So that's a really good time to ask them about the experience of working with you. And then you get something really quick while it's all fresh in their mind. You can ask them about why did they choose you in the first place? And that's really important because that will help you. It helps you write your copy as well, because it tells you how your future clients are feeling right now. If you can ask your current clients how they felt before they hired you. So that sort of thing is really useful.

Louise Shanahan:

And you also get really good feedback about what worked well when we worked together. Was there anything that you expected that didn't happen and these bits of feedback can help you improve your services too. But I also like to ask for feedback a little bit further down the line as well. So maybe six months later, go back and just kind of check in how they're doing and see if they've got any data at that point about how the project has turned out. And then you can find out more about the impact of the work that you did together. So while the very first testimonial that you get initially is about the experience, the later one could be about the impact of the work. And that's really important. That's really powerful when you're speaking to new clients, cause you show the actual results that you've got for other people. And again, that's really useful for your copy.

Steve Folland:

I know as we mentioned, websites change over time, but as we record this, I look at the top of your website and you have one of those little announcement bars and it says, 'got a project in mind, I'm taking new clients from...' And then it's the next month. And then it says, 'get on the wait list'. I was just wondering how long you've done that and how you find that technique?

Louise Shanahan:

I think it works really well. I was getting into this situation where I felt like I had to say yes to everything and it was really hard to plan out the time, especially things do get delayed and it's not necessarily anybody's fault, but I did find it quite challenging to try and shuffle all the different projects around. So rather than have to say no to people straight up, I can just give people a bit more of an expectation about when I'll next be able to start a project. And it gives me a little bit of breathing room as well. So that's usually about six to eight weeks or something. And then I just have a list of people. Some people need a copywriter immediately, so they don't obviously get in touch or if they do, I can refer them to somebody else. It's actually quite comforting for them because they can think, okay, we've got time to get our plans together. We can say hello, get the contract set up, pay the deposit, etc, but we don't actually have to start the project straight away. So that's been really useful, I think. Even if it's just in my own head.

Steve Folland:

And you, you take a deposit on every project?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah. 50% upfront and then the remaining 50% on delivery at the end of the project,

Steve Folland:

If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?

Louise Shanahan:

Oh, you won't regret it. Yeah. It'll be the best decision you ever made. That's how I feel anyway. Perhaps something a bit more practical is 'you don't have to do everything'. That's something that I'm still working on. I think it's useful to remember that you don't need to overcomplicate everything and feel like you need to be on every platform and do every kind of copywriting work with every kind of client, because actually the more focused you are, the easier that it gets. So that's why I'm such a big fan of having a niche.

Steve Folland:

And your, your niche has meant that from the very beginning you knew that you were targeting medical companies, and that you had so much proper experience in that field and with all your government experience as well... did that mean you could maybe go in with higher rates?

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, I think so. I suppose my experience is different to a lot of people who might start off as a generalist copywriter and then gradually find an area that they really enjoy or they really like working in, I kind of came at it the other way around. So it was the health that came first and the copywriting that came second, it kind of chose me I suppose. And I think that's a really good way to be able to stand out and differentiate yourself from everyone else and use your unique set of skills and experience to your advantage. So like I was saying, if I had just started out as a brand new copywriter or a brand new business, it would've been really challenging. Whereas this was a way to really focus on what I was kind of already doing. So I didn't really have that imposter syndrome because I was genuinely talking about things that I knew about - that made the marketing much easier, makes decision making a lot easier. And yeah, I think because you're able to come across as an expert because you basically are an expert in that one very niche thing. You can charge more. It's definitely, definitely something that I would recommend people think about.

Steve Folland:

And I love the fact that... because sometimes I talk to people who are thinking about leaving a job and they wanna do something freelance, which is kind of what you felt at one point. And you said about looking at what your skills were, transferable skills. And I think that sometimes people don't realize this big bank of skills that they've had from working within a company or an industry for so long.

Louise Shanahan:

Yeah, definitely because I did. I did really enjoy the work that I was doing before at government. I did some really interesting jobs and the fun bit about working in government is that you tend to move around a lot. So I moved jobs every couple of years. And that meant that I really was able to hone the ability to jump in to a completely new topic and quickly figure out what's the core problem we're trying to solve here? What's the main message? Who are the influencers? Who are the most helpful people to speak, to, to get the inside track? And those are definitely skills that have stood me in good stead when I'm going from one freelance project to the next as well. And that experience of management, I think helped me skip a few steps as a fledgling freelancer as well. Cause I was used to dealing with very senior people and used to talking about money and things like that. So maybe to a degree, talking with new clients about contracts and pricing, wasn't quite as scary as it might have been. Although I dunno if that ever stops being a little bit scary.

Steve Folland:

Louise, it's been so good to talk to you. Thank you so much and all the best being freelance!

Louise Shanahan:

Thank you so much for having me.