Creative freedom - Designer Marco Inve
About this episode…
Creative freedom — Designer Marco Inve
Marco moved from Italy to London in 2015, ready for a big reset in his life and career. He quickly found a job in design but he wasn’t happy with the work he was doing. In search of more creative freedom and control, Marco began working with agencies and looking for a better job, but it soon became clear that freelancing was his best option.
Today, that drive to create work he’s proud of is still steering Marco, and he focuses on building relationships with clients who trust him and his expertise.
He chats to Steve about finding work, building a portfolio and being selective about the projects he takes on.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
Creating your dream job
Marco was in London burning through his savings and looking for work when he decided to go freelance.
“There was a point where I was just so mentally sick of doing interviews. And I said to myself that if you can't find the job of your dreams, maybe you have to make it yourself. And that's kind of what I did.”
Starting on freelance bidding sites
Marco’s first contacts came via platforms like PeoplePerHour and Fiverr.
“I'm not a big fan of these platforms because I think they exploit a little bit and you're almost battling down in price with other designers. Most of the time the designer that wins or the person who wins is the one who offered the cheapest price. So yeah, I think it was good at the beginning to collect a few clients. But I tried to run away from that as soon as I could.”
Finding clients who trust your expertise
Marco says that one of his markers for a good client relationship is trust. Does the client trust his expertise?
“I think that clients should trust me for the things that I can provide. Of course we usually decide things together, but I think there needs to be a base of trust. Almost like, I don't know, back in the days when you were at school and you, you know, you trust your teacher because that's their job. Or when there is a plumbing job, I trust the plumber. So yeah, I think there needs to be this element of trust in what we do.”
Choosing projects that excite you
Talking about the biggest challenge he’s faced so far as a freelancer, Marco said:
“At the beginning, it was the idea that I needed to take onboard everything because I needed to have income, when sometimes it was just doing really awful things that I didn't want to do. And you know, this job I'm doing, it's a big part of my life and this is what I love to do. I love to do great work and I love to choose what to do. So that was very hard at the beginning.”
"I’d tell my younger self…
“To have more patience at the very start, to be less hard on myself and to stop applying for jobs, because you won’t find what you’re looking for.”
More from Marco Inve
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Designer Marco Inve
Steve Folland: So, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Marco Inve: I moved to the UK around 2015 and there was kind of like a big reset in my life and career. I pretty quickly found a job in design, but I wasn't really happy with the stuff I was designing. So I started to go working for lots of different agencies - I had so many interviews and very few offers. I didn't mind the companies but the problem is that almost everyone wants to work for the same companies. And most of the time it's just about who you know, and basically, I didn't know anyone. I think also there was another small issue with... I think I'm good at my job, but I'm not a very extrovert person, at least at the beginning. And I think most of the companies, they don't just care how good you are designing, they also want you to be the perfect match for the team or very friendly - to kind of build their culture at the company.
Marco Inve: And I couldn't really show that in the interviews. So I think there was a point where I was just so mentally sick of doing interviews. And I think I just said to myself that if maybe you can't find the job of your dreams, maybe you have to make it yourself. And that's kind of what I did.
Marco Inve: I think the other big thing was that I wanted to take control of the direction of my work. That sounded like a perfect solution because in agencies, sometimes the things that you're doing, you can't really show them because you have to sign NDAs or sometimes they're not going through, or maybe sometimes you just send crops or maybe you don't want all that stuff to be part of your portfolio.
Marco Inve: So I really wanted to kind of reposition myself and I think that was a big thing on why I wanted to freelance. So I kind of started. I had a little bit of savings from my previous full-time position, but I had to minimize all my spending and, you know, in London that's probably not a very easy thing to do. It's good nowadays, everything is closed, but it's not easy when everything is open. But yeah, I try to do my best and it was fine for a couple of months. So I had this idea that I wanted to position myself as a designer for branding and packaging. So I kind of repurposed all my old work and created pretend projects.
Marco Inve: Because it is almost this thing, I think other people in your podcast said, sometimes it's very simple: if you have a client who is looking to design a chocolate bar and you have a chocolate bar in your portfolio, it's easier for the client to see what you can do because they, yeah... Sometimes not all clients have loads of imagination. You almost need to show what you can do. So I think, yeah, I want to create these kinds of set of things around me to start getting clients.
Marco Inve: And I think the first contacts I had through platforms like PeoplePerHour and Fiverr. But I'm not a big fan of these platforms because I think they exploit a little bit our job and you're almost battle down in price with other designers. And you know, sometimes you have a brief and most of the time the designer that wins or the person who wins is the one who offered the cheapest price. And sometimes I didn't win the first time, but then they use another person and they came back again. So they almost spend their money twice. So yeah, I think it was good at the beginning to collect a few clients. But I just tried to run away as soon as I could.
Steve Folland: And were you working in-house at an agency while you were doing this - building up that experience and changing your portfolio, or were you just burning through your savings in London?
Marco Inve: So I was burning through my savings. I had the idea of going freelance, but then I found a full-time position that I didn't really enjoy. So I worked there for three months and then I just said, okay, that's it. I need to leave.
Steve Folland: So you were finding work on the freelance job sites, but not enjoying it. So how did you go about finding your own clients?
Marco Inve: So I still, I collected a few contacts that I'm still working with them right now years later. So that was part of them. But then also I when I was quieter, I kind of tend to do personal projects, you know, with very few boundaries in place. And they helped me not only with creativity but also they, you kind of bring your business because like what I was saying earlier with the chocolate bar, you kind of, you show more skills and I had a few clients come into this. Do you know, especially if you post the jobs maybe on [inaudible] or maybe your personal project gets featured, you get loads of views, and sometimes you get good messages. I was also doing some work with design agencies. So it was I was literally freelancing for agencies, and I think that was good money-wise, but I think because I'm a bit of a control freak, especially on projects, I was always bartering a bit with the term freelance.
Marco Inve: So I started to call myself independent. And this is another concept that I think I learned from your podcast at the very beginning cause there were loads of people that were saying that, and I think the idea of being in control of the project and talking directly to the clients and instead of, you know, instead of giving my services to an agency and it was good money-wise, but then you, you couldn't do everything that you wanted. That's when I realized maybe I should have switched to maybe a company setting or the company was more yeah, the could, could be a future.
Steve Folland: So at that point you were, you were calling yourself. So at first, you were Marco in the freelance graphic designer and then Marco the independent graphic designer. And were you doing just, just to jump back slightly, your aim of creating your own work for your portfolio was like positioning yourself, like packaging, for example, was that kind of work coming your way?
Marco Inve: Yes. Uh, I think, uh, of course, I had other things as well. Maybe I wasn't advertising as much just because I wanted to keep focused on branding and packaging, but yeah, it was, it was coming through very slowly, but yeah, it was coming through, I think maybe the positioning at this stage was not only packaging, but with more food beverages and hospitality, so it was a bit bigger.
Steve Folland: So how did things start to change? It's starting to feel there as if you were going to say you then changed to a company name. Yes.
Marco Inve: I, I kind of started to feel that I had almost like a package to offer to my clients. I didn't always include experienced in design division that I had on the project, on the brands. What sort of process was a big thing on how I was doing things and was requiring a direct contact with the clients. And I mean also the, the client was trusting me, so yeah, I had this package and I couldn't offer this package through another agency that there was probably another aha moment when I said, oh, okay. I have actually something to say or something to offer. So maybe it's time to take the next step here. And yeah, I, I created a company, a company called, so the company is called Main Works. It was a bit hard to find the name for the company because I think everything, if you Google the name, everything is a studio now, now, so it was, it was very hard to find a name. I probably changed the company house a few times the name and I'm still not 100% happy, but yeah, it was very, very hard. So basically is the star, the two letters on my name with the two lateral, my surname and works was just a generic thing to put everything together because I like main, but there was a studio called main as well. So I was just, yeah, it's very hard to find them. Yeah.
Steve Folland: I like the link to your name. Yeah. And so is Mainworks just you?
Marco Inve: Yep. So, um, I think I had a few plans before COVID then I kind of decided to slow down a little bit. It's just me right now, but depending on projects, I have different people coming in. So depending on what I need, like maybe for a project in more illustrations or 3D or motion design. So I have a few contacts around me who are helping me to do the project as best as I can, but I'm yeah, I'm, I'm struggling at the moment. I, I don't think I'm very, probably, I'm not very optimistic. So I'm afraid to take the next step of hiring someone, but yet something that I really want to do.
Steve Folland: In what way are you not feeling optimistic?
Marco Inve: You know, it's, I think hiring someone is probably the big, one of the biggest expense that I could have as a design business. Right. So do you know what, now it's fine. Maybe in three months on one year, it's going to be fine, but you don't know what's gonna happen in two years and you still have to, there maybe you still have, you have this money we're going to affect your cash flow. We're going out. So yeah, it's like a, it's a big, it's a big jump and going to think about it properly.
Steve Folland: And that's the cool thing is that you can, you can still bring on other freelances, but keep your overheads lower while you need to that's. That's good. Yeah. But how do you position yourself? Like how do, because you know, you could, you could call yourself main works, but still be hi, I'm Marco and I'm the blah blah of main works. Or if people contact main works, does it feel like they're contacting a bigger company? Like H how do you show yourself to the world in that way?
Marco Inve: Yeah, I think things from last February changed slightly because of course we didn't know what was going to happen and I had different plans. So I wanted to change the company was, push for me to hire someone, but then I didn't. So I kind of, how can I say this? I didn't really know where it was for a little while, and I probably still don't know yet because I sometimes, you know, you, because you are a company you need to talk as a “we”, but it's still me. So sometimes I just took as a, we as me and other people who are coming on board for the projects, but I still know resolve those things yet. I think right now, both things are open, so people are coming in both directions. So maybe if someone is coming from the company side from the, from the company part maybe they expect a different approach or if they're coming from my name, maybe they expect more like you know, personal touch or so, yeah, I dunno, work in progress.
Steve Folland: And have you found switching to the company name, like you wanted it to change the way you worked, who you worked with? Do you feel that that's word?
Marco Inve: Um, I think mentally for me, yes, because I, I construct this, you know, this famous package that I was talking about. I like this idea of having a vision and give this vision to a client, which you can probably do, even if you were, if you were in a company, but I think it's mentally for me. It's some I've been able to click better. Yeah.
Steve Folland: And does it, I mean, you, you mentioned or hinted, like towards feeling a bit of an introvert, does being a company help you in that respect?
Marco Inve: I think the whole freelance experience helped me with, my personality because I always wanted to kind of stay and play in backstage, but then when I needed work, I really need to put my face and my name and that helped me, gave me a bit of confidence back. I'm not sure it's changed much through the company. Probably is a step backward just because I didn't have my name there anymore, but it's still in me. My name is still there. So yeah, I think that it definitely helped me than before.
Steve Folland: Yeah, no, that's interesting though. But so actually it was on the introversion side of things. It was actually going in and going for a job interview and trying to fit into a company that you felt uncomfortable with. You felt much in a safer space being yourself.
Marco Inve: Yeah. Do you know, there is also a reason why I don't work with the public. I tend to spend my own day in front of a laptop. I then I'm probably never going to work as a customer service is just not me
Steve Folland: But you say that you're not going to be a customer service person, but obviously you still have to deal with your customers and provide them a service and make them happy. How do you find that side of things dealing with clients?
Marco Inve: Well, I think it's a bit different. I think I, like, I like building relationships with my clients. You're starting to know them. You start to know what they like, or don't like. There are clients I started to work with right at the beginning and we're still together and I loved that. I think the comparison I was trying to make as I still have that side in my business, but it's not, I don't work in know. I dunno in a call centre where I deal with X amount of people every day. So I have my, I have my small group of people, which I like because we're working together and I like talking to them, but yeah, it's, it's never, it's never going to be more than that. I think.
Steve Folland: How about the way you work? Do you tend to like work on one project at a time, one after another? Or do you have several on the go?
Marco Inve: See I always, I always wondered about that because there are lots of people who are saying they're trying to divide their week on different things and I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm just too messy to do that, so I try it, but it just really works for me. I think I'm just I dunno, I don't think I really ever I'm just depending on the deadlines that I have or things that are more important, I find very easy, very easy, very good to plan emails. So with do you know what to do to like schedule things? So even if the mail is going on, not really working on that thing, so that helped me to regulate to be my workflow, but yeah, I think I'm still a bit chaotic. Yeah. I love to be more organized.
Steve Folland: You tend to work on one client project, wait until it's finished and then start another one.
Marco Inve: Well, no, I think usually that we'll mix them together. I think depending on the urgencies are you tend to prioritize things that are a bit more urgent, but then you have maybe bigger jobs that are overlapping. So I tend to maybe divide the day based on the whole work that I have. And maybe, I don't know, maybe I gave 20 minutes today and I'm going to rework that thing tomorrow. Maybe there is bigger things that need my attention. That needs to go like, you know, in a week with a deadline. So yeah, I think everything is overlapping at the moment.
Steve Folland: How do you know how much work you can take on, you know like if I was to phone you up now and say I had a job for you, how do you assess whether or not you've, you've got the time?
Marco Inve: So this is probably connecting to the work-life balance as well. I'm quite a workaholic, so I tend to work a lot and even if I have enough time, but there is a good project, I usually tend to take that on board.
Steve Folland: I'm glad you think my project is going to be good.
Marco Inve: No, I, yeah. I guess depends, depends on the project if the project is very good and yeah, I don't think at the time, but the project is very, very good. I'm probably going to take it anyway. Maybe I'm going to, maybe I can try to squish all the things about wind.
Steve Folland: So do you feel like you've got a good work-life balance?
Marco Inve: I don't think it's very good. So I think since I started, I tend to keep a nine to six routine, which is usually a 10 to six because the morning mornings are not very yeah, I'm not really a morning person and tend to keep the weekends free, but there is this thing that even if I'm not working, it's almost like my eyes and my brain are working 24 7, and I'm a very visual person. So I need to kind of visualize what I'm thinking. So even if I'm not working, I kind of, I need to just sit down and put down what I'm thinking, just to visualize it so that that's going to be yeah, this is going off the nine to 10, nine to six. But yeah, it's something that I'm still struggling with a bit. And I dunno, maybe I'm never gonna fix, I dunno, maybe it's just, again, maybe it's just me. But yeah, probably the weekends are the things that I try to keep clean as possible.
Steve Folland: And do you work from, I mean, obviously outside of the pandemic, do you work from home or do you go somewhere else?
Marco Inve: So I, I have a, I need to have a studio because if I'm home, I started to, I started to look at the dishes. I, I, the cats are, I have two cats, so they keep asking for food. So I never really it's very hard to focus. So I, it's, I find, I found very helpful to have a, a desk space that I change a few times over since the start. But yeah, then, I mean, of course now I'd probably work home a little bit more, but yeah, it's much better to focus. Definitely in an office,
Steve Folland: Something you mentioned at one point, it was about trust, trust with clients. What were you referring to with that?
Marco Inve: You know, one thing is that the project is good and the other thing is during the first minutes that we, that we are talking, I try to understand if there is going to be a potentially a good relationship between us. And I think that that's another big factor of taking for the project or not. I think that clients should trust me for the things that I can provide. Of course, we usually decide things together, but I think there is, needs to be a base of trust, almost like, I don't know, I'm thinking back in the days when you were at school and you, you know, you trust your teacher because that's the job or there is a plumbing job, I trust the plumber. So I think, yeah, I think it needs to be this element of trust in what we do. And also because, you know, there are so many professionals doing my job. So if, if I can't give this chance, maybe there is going to be someone else
Steve Folland: How do you deal with that situation though. I don't know, when a client is, I guess pushing back on something that you're suggesting or creating?
Marco Inve: I think, and this is probably more now just because I'm a little bit more stable, so I can make this I can do this, but I think previously years ago I was just trying to deal with that because I needed some income, I think now that I'm just a little bit more stable, I think I try to let them know that we all want the project to have a good ending. So to have like a good end result, sorry, but I think if the clients doesn't, there's no trust, I think I probably ended up few relationships because of this. I think I need to have these elements.
Steve Folland: And how have you found the, like the financial side of running your business?
Marco Inve: So at the beginning, I was doing everything myself and I think it was actually kind of okay. Doing it. I thought it was harder than it looks, but yeah, I think now things are getting a bit more complicated, so I'm, I tend to have an accountant and yeah, I think it's just a big relief because I'm not really good at the money of like numbers. And so, yeah, it's good that there is someone else who is kind of overlooks over. Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's a big relief.
Marco Inve: If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Marco Inve: I don't want to be too cliche, but I think I'll probably tell myself to have a little bit more patience at the very start. Maybe be less hard on yourself and really stop applying for jobs because you wan’t find what you're looking for.
Steve Folland: What would you say has been the biggest challenge for you being freelance?
Marco Inve: I think at the beginning, I think it was the idea that I needed to take onboard everything because I needed to have income when sometimes it was just doing really awful things and I didn't want to do and you know, this job is I'm doing, it's a big part of my life and this is what I love to do. And I love to do all the great work and I love to choose what to do. So I think that was, that was very hard at the beginning. But yeah, just said to myself you know, it's probably going to get better and I think it did. Now I can, maybe not all the times, I don't want to be too naive, but there is definitely a bit of selection.
Steve Folland: And now that you're a company, how does the work come to you now? Is it still from the likes of Behance?
Marco Inve: So I'm, I think I've been lucky enough to work with the same people over time who are, maybe have different businesses and they bring the there's been quite a lot of word of mouth. And that was good. It was also very rewarding. I think extra things. I tend to do a few pitches and a Behance a little bit. Instagram, not much. Yeah. I think it's more people who are working with me who is actively the work that I'm doing with referring other jobs. I think that's the best yeah, that's the best place where I get work.
Steve Folland: And you obviously found doing your own side projects really important early on. Is that something you still do now? Yeah.
Marco Inve: Yes. I tend to do every year, at least one project. And I usually publish this, so it's on my website and I, in the first few years, I during Christmas I started to create an object or something that I was deciding to send, to send to my clients. And that was like a nice way of kind of challenging myself. Maybe I put a little bit of budget aside to print or yeah. To kind of produce. And I, this year I made as multiplication on my work with the idea that I was going to send to new clients. I probably made too many, but.
Steve Folland: Nice. What, what, like a magazine?
Marco Inve: Yeah, just as small, um it's not really, it's like an A5 publication. Yeah. Which is, yeah. It's nice to kind of see all the work inside.
Steve Folland: And so you've got those and sent them to existing clients, but will send them to potential ones as well.
Marco Inve: Yeah. But that's the idea. Yeah. I didn't, I sent just, just a couple, so I still have to yeah, I really still have to understand where to, where to send them and you know, right now it's a bit hard because if you think about a company nobody's really working in their offices, you don't really, you don't really have an address unless someone gives that to me. Yeah. So maybe I'm going to wait for a while, but I think it was a good exercise to see kind of the progress and all the kind of things that I put together. So it was definitely a good exercise and a good thing to keep. Yep.
Steve Folland: Marco, it's so good to chat to you and all the best being freelance.
Marco Inve: Thanks so much, Steve. Thank you.