Creative confidence - Commercial Artist Murugiah
This episode is sponsored by the course…
How to get started Being Freelance
In this course for new freelancers, Steve’s rolled up everything he’s learnt from over 6 years of conversations with more than 240 freelancers.
Creative confidence- Commerical Artist Murugiah
After spending seven years studying architecture, Sharm Murugiah realised he didn’t want to be an architect. He wanted to be an artist instead. And so, six months out of university, his freelance journey began.
Since then, Murugiah’s worked with high-profile brands such as Wired, Vans and Adobe. From learning to manage clients, to finding the best places to share his work online, to booking projects through agents and then taking back control, Murugiah says there’s a lot he’s done over the past nine years that he wouldn’t do again.
But, through all of that trial and error, he’s finally found confidence in his own creative style.
Read highlights from the episode in the next tab!
Personal projects and dream clients
Murugiah says he doesn’t hold himself to strict goals but he does like to dream and follow his interests.
"A couple of days ago, I decided to put two bits of information on a whiteboard in front of my desk. One of them was a dream clients list, and the other one was, "What I want to achieve this year, in terms of output. Outside of my regular work, what other projects would I like to achieve?”
"And then I have a dream clients list. It’s much bigger and wider, and far from what I'm currently capable of, I think. But it's there for a reason. It's called the dream list for a reason, I guess."
Finding creative confidence
He has a client list that includes Apple, Penguin and Disney, and he's been freelance for over 9 years now, but it was only recently that artist Murugiah began feeling confident with his style.
"Creatively, I am finally in a place where I feel comfortable in terms of the actual work I'm making,” says Murugiah. “It's 2021 now and I started in 2012!”
He’s keen to point out that it takes time to get there. To feel confident about your own style and to build up a portfolio of work and a client list that you’re proud of.
"A lot of the things I've done in the last 9 years have led me to realise that I don't want to do them again. From a creative point of view, I knew I wanted to say more and do more.”
Managing clients
When he first started out, Murugiah said he took on low paying work because he didn’t know any better.
"It was a very big learning curve. Of taking on projects and realising that I'm not the right person for them, or I don't know… undercharging, overcharging, not really knowing how to converse in a professional manner with clients.
"I've been lucky enough to have clients and friends who are supportive and understanding of the stage I was at. One of the best things to do is to be open and honest when you can be, about your skillset and your understanding of the work."
Work-life balance
Murugiah says he's had a realisation recently, that as much as he loves working, he’s trying to live a life that feels more “whole”.
"I’ve been having a lot of conversations with my dad during this lockdown period. He was going through retirement; he's a doctor, a GP. And he was confessing that he had spent a little too much time working, and not enough time on his family, and social life, and friends. It clicked with me that I was turning into a version of him, a little bit.
"Not the best time to realise it, during a lockdown. But I know that when all of this stuff is over, I'll be the first one out of this office spending time with loved ones."
And the one thing Murugiah would tell his younger self?
It’s all about reassurance. He says it’s something he was looking for at the time that he wasn’t able to give himself the way he can now.
“I would just say ‘You’ll get there. It’s going to happen sooner than you think.”
More from Steve Folland
Podcast transcript
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and freelance Commercial Artist Murugiah
Transcription via Rev - try them yourself!
Steve Folland: We have got freelance commercial artist Sharm Murugiah. Hey, Sharm.
Murugiah: Hi. How's it going? Nice to be here.
Steve Folland: I'm good. I should really say, "Hey, Murugiah," because that's the name you go by, isn't it? As in you go, your artist's name is your surname.
Murugiah: It is, yeah. Some of the people I look up to often go by a single name. It's something I wanted to put out in the world, people like Prince, Madonna, Moebius, who's an illustrator I named my cat after. There's lots of things, and I just wanted a memorable, one-word kind of title. So that's what I went for.
Steve Folland: It's awesome. Okay. As ever, how about we get started here, and how you got started, being freelance?
Murugiah: Oh my gosh. I've had a long, treacherous journey to becoming a freelance commercial artist. Where do you want to begin? Because I started at school. I wanted to be an artist. That was my thing. I was 18, and I was good at art.
Murugiah: I asked my parents, my strict Asian parents, "I want to be an artist," and being the great parents that they are, they said no. They said that I should do something with a bit more structure, that's connected to art and the creative industry, but something that I can have a nine to five in, and have a day job in. So we collectively decided on architecture.
Steve Folland: Oh, right.
Murugiah: And I trained as an architect for seven long years at university. Yeah, it was tough. I worked as an architect for a year in industry, in between that seven year course, and then, six months after my seven-year training, as a fully qualified architect. After six months, I realized that I did not want to do that job as a career.
Steve Folland: Oh, my God.
Murugiah: Yeah. It was really tough. It was quite bad, actually, because I was starting to lose my hair from stress, after that six months of being in the industry. This is where my parents came around again, because they were like very supportive.
Murugiah: They were like, "Look, if it's causing you that much stress, do the thing that you really want to do. At least now you have this foundation in a creative course." Because architecture is a very broad foundation of creativity, so I was thankful that I did it.
Murugiah: But yeah, I think 2012 was when I finished my six months in architecture, and I went freelance. And I did do, I did end up working for a couple of other people in the creative industries, but we can get onto that, I think, later.
Steve Folland: How did you make the transition from architecture to, what? You were, "Oh, I went freelance," like it's that easy? How did you make that happen?
Murugiah: Yeah, you're right. It definitely wasn't that easy. I guess, nearing the end of my architecture course, my diploma, I was starting to get those feelings of, "This isn't the right thing."
Murugiah: At that point, I was slowly saving up a lot of money, so that I could ... I think, in the back of my mind, I knew that I wanted to be a freelance artist, so I wanted to save up some money, and then also, start making some personal projects on the side.
Murugiah: This was near the end of my architecture diploma. So I still ended up doing six months of architecture work after that, as a professional, but I knew, deep down, that I wanted to do something else. So it was always a really good thing to save some money, and to have some foundation for eventually transitioning into a unstable or unsteady kind of freelance beginning.
Steve Folland: And how about, how you actually found the clients, the people who could make that a business, rather than something that you fancy doing?
Murugiah: Yeah, I suppose that was quite difficult in the beginning? I actually, today, I just posted a Tweet that said, "Even though the world is bad right now, just on a personal note, 2021 is the first year in which I'm feeling comfortable and confident about my work, building on from the previous year. And I started in 2012."
Murugiah: So I think it's taken this long to get to a point where I fully feel comfortable about the work I'm making, and still, I'm actually building on the thing I did last year. But in terms of those initial clients in 2012, I'm just actually looking through my project folders. I have one project in 2012, and then I have multiple in 2013.
Murugiah: But the first project I did was for a friend. He worked at a jazz cafe in West London, and wanted a flyer done. So it was very different. I had no idea what I was doing, really, but it was a paying job, so I took it. And I think things built on from there.
Murugiah: It was people I knew. I was also slowly doing these personal projects, which I was putting out online. I was getting a few bits of work, quite low paying jobs because I didn't know any better, but I was getting bits and bobs from various people coming in, asking for book covers, and kind of editorial illustrations, and things at that time.
Steve Folland: And what were those personal projects? How did they help?
Murugiah: Well, I was really, I'm still, I'm super interested in film poster design, and anything to do with movies, really. So I was making these alternative film posters. I also ended up doing Quentin Tarantino screenplays as book covers, which was one thing that got the attention from ... I later found out Penguin Books had it their, had the image in their office for a long time, which is quite fun.
Steve Folland: Oh, wow.
Murugiah: But those kinds of fun projects, it was really about exploring things that I liked, rather than a style per se. It was just, what kind of things am I into? Around the same time, I'd also joined an artist collective based in America, that had artists around the world. And they also made alternative film posters as well.
Murugiah: So it was clients that saw those alternative film posters, and hired me for projects that were adjacent to those kind of things, like book covers and editorials, and things like that.
Steve Folland: Would you be reaching out to anyone? Or was it literally posting to certain sites, or ...
Murugiah: Yeah, there was one company, actually, I think I saw a review of a book in the Guardian, from a book publisher called Oldcastle Books, and I checked out their website, and there were a relatively small publishing company. So I figured I should just call them up and say, "Hey, I've just done these Quentin Tarantino screenplays as book covers. And I wanted to know what you thought about them."
Murugiah: I was very lucky that they liked the style, and they said they had a series in mind for an author, that they wanted a similar style of, the way I had done that, the screenplay covers. Yeah, but that company, they were really lovely, because I met with the publisher in person, and we talked about film and stuff, and it was really cool.
Murugiah: And it was still, I mean, the jobs were relatively low paying, because it was a small publishing house, but it was cool to know that there were people out there that appreciated the work I was making, and was willing enough to get in touch with me, and get back in touch with me, and talk about projects and stuff. So that was cool.
Steve Folland: Yeah. I mean, you just said, that it was only this year, that you started to feel confident, despite nearly 10 years of doing it. So how ...
Murugiah: Oh gosh. I didn't realize it was 10 years, but yeah, you're right.
Steve Folland: But it's a hefty amount of time. Where were you making enough to make ends meet, or did you go back into any part-time jobs, or back into architectural? Were you okay from the off, financially?
Murugiah: Yeah. I think what I meant by the Tweet earlier was that creatively, I am finally in a place where I feel comfortable in terms of the actual work I was making. Financially at the moment, also comfortable in being a freelancer, and knowing where that's going or not, because that's the freelancer life, I think, a little bit.
Murugiah: But back in 2012 to, I think, 2017, it was unstable. I was doing a few freelance jobs. Some of them were things that I liked, and some of them were things that were almost work for hire, that were completely at different styles, and I was a bit uncomfortable with. So during that time, I ended up working for a greeting card company for a year, called Scribbler Cards.
Murugiah: Then, the following year, I ended up working for LEON Restaurants as their graphic designer. Really, I took on two years' worth of experience of two different companies, to really get a sense of what it was like to work for other people in graphic design and illustration, because I'd only previously worked in architecture. So I needed those years to basically tell me that I'd wanted to be a freelancer again. So yes.
Steve Folland: But it wasn't just the fact that you had a regular paycheck coming in from those two companies, it was more than that?
Murugiah: Yeah, it was understanding what ... A lot of the things that I've done in the last nine years have led me to realize that I don't want to do them again generally. But I worked for a greeting card company, which, it didn't fulfill me creatively, what was going on in that industry.
Murugiah: And then, when I joined LEON Restaurants as a graphic designer, I was doing pure graphic design. So it was a lot of typesetting, and dry, kind of label making, and things like that.
Murugiah: Again, that steered me away from wanting to do something like that. By the end of that second year of employment, I was a bit, "I have more to say, from a personal point of view."
Murugiah: I even told my director at Leon this, and she was, "I was wondering when you'd say this, because I sensed that in you. And I think it's the right thing, decision you're making."
Murugiah: So it was full support from the people I worked with, and I had great experiences working there, but from a creative point of view, I knew I wanted to say more and do more.
Steve Folland: The whole time, for example, that you were working at those companies, you were freelancing on the side?
Murugiah: Yeah, evenings and weekends, I was freelancing, and I was doing these alternative film posters, and editorials that were similar, had a similar style as part of this art collective, where you even got an officially licensed gallery show in Marseille, a Star Wars one for it, as well.
Steve Folland: Wow.
Murugiah: So I was doing some fun jobs, and I did a mural for a restaurant, as well. That was just on the cusp of leaving my second job, and finally deciding I could do this full-time, being a freelancer. I did end up getting some fun jobs here and there, but nothing on that consistent level, that I see so much of it on social media with other artists and illustrators, so ...
Steve Folland: How have you got on with dealing with clients over the years?
Murugiah: Oh, it was a very big, it's a big learning curve of taking on projects and realizing that I'm not the right person for them, or I don't know, undercharging, overcharging, not really knowing how to converse in a professional manner with clients.
Murugiah: I'm so glad I've had these nine years' worth of training to do all of this stuff, but I've been lucky enough to have clients and friends who I've been able to work with, who are supportive. And I think, just understanding that, of the stage, which I was at, I think that one of the best things to do is to kind of be open and honest when you can be, about your skill set and your kind of understanding of work.
Steve Folland: What do you find works for you in that respect now? If you sit there and think, "Okay, yeah, I made all of those little mistakes, but now I'm in a place that works?"
Murugiah: I think, when the pandemic started in 2020 last year, I had a particular style of work which was very textured, and very grainy, and the subject matter was always the same. I was always interested in surrealist, dreamlike, ethereal-type imagery, but my style was this kind of grittiness, and it didn't feel comfortable with me, didn't sit well with me.
Murugiah: When the pandemic hit, we just had lots and lots of time on our hands as professionals, creative professionals. So I had a phone call with a friend, to another illustrator, who I trust very much. We speak at least once a week, talking about how we're progressing, and what our work is looking like.
Murugiah: I told him that I wanted to make a change. And he reminded me of work I made in the past nine years that he really liked. He said that he really liked my composition and my use of color. I said, "I love those things, too. But what I really want to start introducing is a sense of my own cultural background and upbringing."
Murugiah: My parents are from Sri Lanka, but I was born in the UK and raised in the UK. So there's this great kind of mix of upbringings and cultures that cross one another. I thought to myself and I asked him, I was, "Maybe I should start combining that those compositions and bright colors, with all of that stuff that I just mentioned." He said that sounded like a great idea, and it was something that felt unique to me, very specifically.
Murugiah: When the pandemic started, I just started making personal projects with all of that in mind, one after another, maybe once a week to twice a week, I was repeatedly putting out new pieces of work, and I started to get a lot of traction for it, and jobs coming through from it.
Murugiah: That was really when I started to feel comfortable. Now that I've been doing that, from March of last year till now, I think I've got a good foundation now to build on, basically. That's why I say I feel comfortable with how things are going, yeah.
Steve Folland: Ah. So when you say you were creating those projects and putting them out, putting them out on where? On Instagram, on...
Murugiah: Yeah, I was putting them out on Instagram and Twitter. I actually had closed my accounts from other portfolio websites. I had my own website, and then, my Instagram, my Twitter. I thought to myself, "I can't really handle uploading all of it onto all of these other portfolio sites at the moment, because I just needed a sense of control. I want to be happy with what I'm putting out there, in terms of the amount of time I'm spending being an admin person.".
Murugiah: I thought I could handle my Twitter, my Instagram and my website. I was putting the images out on there, basically. And they were being shared by friends, by other illustrators who I'd never met. It was a really nice feeling, to get that support, and to see people really engaging with the work, and stuff. Yeah, it was really cool.
Steve Folland: Now, when I look at your website, and you list some of the clients you've worked with, there's obviously some really big names in there. How have you gone from designing a flyer at a jazz cafe, to working with some of the biggest companies in the world?
Murugiah: Well, I think a lot of the companies I mention on the website are companies I've worked with, and sometimes, the projects haven't ended up coming to pass, Penguin being one of them. It was a set of book covers I did for them, which never ended up being released.
Murugiah: Some of the other companies I've worked for were in previous styles of mine. But again, all of these companies, it's nine years' worth of work. And maybe one of those, maybe I did one of those companies, or worked with one of those companies every couple of years. It sounds more impressive when it's put on a list, on a website, right, compared to the reality.
Steve Folland: Hey, that's what those impressive lists on websites are for.
Murugiah: I know, but sometimes it's important to let younger followers and listeners know, that this process is long, and it takes a lot of time and commitment to kind of put to it, basically.
Steve Folland: But it must have felt amazing when you came to work with some of those companies. How did that come about?
Murugiah: Yeah. I mean, it feels so good, when a company like that kind of drops in your inbox. Or I was lucky enough to be represented by a couple of agents in that time, as well.
Murugiah: Some of the jobs came through those agents. And yeah, the feeling is great. It's absolutely amazing. I'm more interested in the work that gets made out of it, and eventually, what tangible thing comes out of the project.
Murugiah: Sometimes, when you're not allowed to share the work, or when the project fails, it doesn't really feel like something that's not fun. A big part of this last couple of years was to be more in control of the work I was putting out there myself in terms of personal work, which, I can release a small print run, and be super proud of it, because it's something I've put the commitment in, and have people buy it, and stuff. So it's cool.
Murugiah: But yeah, working with those companies is great. I want to work with more of them soon. Now that I have this style that I'm comfortable in working in, and yeah, they're on their way. We've got some nice projects coming up, which is really cool, which I'm currently working on, so that's good.
Steve Folland: So do you have an agent now?
Murugiah: I don't actually, no. I recently parted ways with my agent as of last year, mainly due to the fact that I was interested in being a bit more in control of my contracts, and understanding contracts as well. I didn't like the idea of leaving contractual negotiations up to somebody else.
Murugiah: I wanted to learn and understand it a bit more, and they even told me that they were a growing agency, and I shouldn't really expect too many jobs to come in, in the first few years. And I was a bit like, "Okay, that's going to be a bit tough." Because I am the type of person that, I don't know, I work very fast, evidence of which, I spent six months making personal work, and then gained three or four really cool clients in that time, very quickly.
Murugiah: I'm someone that some would say "impatient," but I would say, "Yeah, that too, but also driven." I just wanted things to move a little faster. I think it's because I did architecture for such a long time, and I feel like I've spent so many years doing something else, and I'm playing catchup a little bit, with all these fantastic artists and illustrators out there. I know, that's a bit silly.
Steve Folland: But equally, you know how long it takes to build a building?
Murugiah: Yeah. One of the main reasons I left that industry.
Steve Folland: But it takes time. Foundations are laid, gradually are built.
Murugiah: I realized that cultivating patience is my biggest, I don't know, it's the thing that I need to do the most is, if I have a dream client list, or a dream personal goal list, on the top of that list is to cultivate patience, and that things take time.
Steve Folland: Now you've done a few things with Adobe, though, right?
Murugiah: I have, yeah. Yeah, that was wicked.
Steve Folland: What have you done with them, and how did they come about? Okay, there's three questions, when I can sit back and have a cup of tea. What have you done with them? How did it come about? But also, what impact did it have?
Murugiah: Yeah, so I've done two videos with them. They came about, because I Adobe worked with a production company, and Adobe wanted the next in their Adobe Create series, where they follow a creative around their local area, and kind of learn and understand a bit about what they do, and their type of work.
Murugiah: One of the members of the production company happened to follow me on Instagram, and suggested me for this video. And that's when I got called by the members of the production company to collaborate. And we made this Adobe Create video, and it was super fun.
Murugiah: It was in a slightly older style, but it was really good to kind of ... It was the beginnings of where, of My influences, and me as an individual. So I was happy to have it out there in the world.
Murugiah: Adobe came back last year, and they asked me to do a little interview with them, just talking about the pandemic and this new style that I was working on. It ended up being a part of Adobe MAX, which was really quite exciting.
Murugiah: In terms of what has come out of it? I think, just some awareness of me as an illustrator, and some people saying nice things about my work, which is ... And some not so nice things, if you read the YouTube comments, but yeah.
Murugiah: No, I know, I know. That was a hard lesson, just understanding what a troll is, and what isn't but anyway...
Steve Folland: Oh, man.
Murugiah: Yeah. In terms of what's come out of it, I think they're good ways of getting your name and face and personality out there. And I think that has come back with some attention from fans and customers. And it's really cool.
Steve Folland: Ah, that's awesome. It's always interesting to hear how those things come about. So it's that, you just putting your work out there on Instagram, but you never quite know who's following you, and paying attention, and where that might lead.
Murugiah: Yeah, it was crazy to think that this person who worked at the production company happened to be working with Adobe that year, and then also happened to like my work at the same time, and suggest me for it.
Murugiah: Those kind of things are very ... You've got to be quite lucky to get them. And I think the only way to enhance that luck is to just be very open, and on social media, and put out a lot of things, of work, basically put a lot of work.
Steve Folland: What have you found the biggest challenge, or challenges, of being freelance for you?
Murugiah: The biggest challenge was while I'm still going through it, because it's cultivating patience, but those first few years were really tough. Because it was really, it was touch and go and, and there was a lot of issues around discovering, you know, the type of work I wanted to make, that didn't look like anybody else's work, that felt unique to me.
Murugiah: I definitely had a few long nights, wondering, "Is this going to be fruitful at all, is this ever going to be?" I didn't mean financially. I could always, if it failed, I would have gone and got a job somewhere else, but I really, I wanted to do this so bad. And I think I just, I wanted to establish a style and a set of work that I was really proud of.
Murugiah: So it was constantly all of that, that was running through my head. I guess, the short answer to your question is, the little person inside of my brain that was telling me, that I couldn't do it. It was dealing with that person, and that's the biggest challenge, I think.
Steve Folland: I'm intrigued about, because you've talked about, doing certain projects that weren't necessarily the style you wanted to go in, developing your own style, and so on. So how would you then deal with that, when sharing your work online, be it in your online portfolio, or in those other portfolios that you've now let go? Would you simply not show something?
Murugiah: No, I was iterating in public. I definitely was learning and putting stuff out there, and seeing what I liked, and what I disliked. Some people do it a different way. Some people will prefer to iterate in private, and they prefer to kind of develop their style separately, and not show anyone until it's fully polished.
Murugiah: But I have definitely gone back and deleted many Instagram posts that were filled with work, and screen grabs, or sketches that didn't fit anymore. But I definitely made a point of putting it all out there, because I was still trying to make money, at the end of the day. And I was still, whatever job that came in, that I could take on, that would pay my bills, I would take.
Murugiah: It's all built around just making decisions, and putting them out there, in terms of the work. It's a bit messy, but it eventually does start to iron out, and you start to see the development. You go into a more cohesive set of work. So yeah, I made mistakes, and put them out there. I was happy to.
Steve Folland: And how about the way you work? I mean, obviously, there's a whole pandemic thing going on, but do you work from home, or from a studio? Or how about you?
Murugiah: I've had phases. So I worked from home at the beginning. I did a couple of years in a studio, sharing with some colleagues, but I realized about myself, that I get very distracted. I'm either, I get distracted, or I'm the kind of lad, most talkative person in the room, and distract other people, so ... Or, at least, that's what I was feeling anyway.
Murugiah: None of them said that I was, but I felt like I was distracting people. But I've realized, that yeah, I'm very comfortable at home. I'm very productive when there's very little distraction around. So, right before the pandemic, I decided to leave that studio, and as the rules of a lockdown were happening, I was driving my stuff home. So it was the right time.
Murugiah: Yeah, and I have a little spare room. Actually, our old bedroom is now my studio, and the tiny spare room is our bedroom, so we switched things around a bit. And I have quite a big room now with my books and stuff, my flat file, for all my artworks, then. So that's cool.
Steve Folland: Oh, my gosh. So you managed to switch. So you say, "our bedroom," so you and your partner, you managed to persuade-
Murugiah: Yes.
Steve Folland: To demote to a small bedroom, so that you could have more room for your actual work?
Murugiah: Well, she is very supportive. But also, we were planning on moving house at the same time, but we ended up not doing so, because of the pandemic. Part of that new house decision was looking through floor plans, and deciding what rooms were really important, in terms of the amount of space you got. Because in London, you don't get a lot of space, and you have to decide how much time you spend in each room, and what purpose does it serve?
Murugiah: We were very close to buying a flat, and it had a very tiny box room, and then, one similar to what we've got now, a larger bedroom. We were, "Should we put our bed in that tiny box room, and create this storage underneath this bed? The room could just be about sleeping. There's no distractions in there," and that kind of thing.
Murugiah: And yeah, that translated back to the flat that we're currently living in. So I was, "Oh, well, why don't we just practice now? And we'll switch the rooms around, and I can have a nice studio."
Murugiah: It does work, if you realize that you spend most of your day in the living room, or in your office, and your kitchen, and you spend a few hours at night in the bedroom. It's like, in terms of maximizing the space and the use of space, it's very sensible. It's kind of, "Do it that way." This is where my architecture training does come in, you see.
Steve Folland: No, I like that. And how do you find like work/life balance?
Murugiah: I'm getting a lot better at it at the moment, I think. I used to be terrible. I used to working crazy hours and evenings and weekends.
Murugiah: But nowadays, I tend to, I've had a bit of a realization, that as much as I love working, and I love work, it's not the only thing that should drive us, and our relationships, and our social interactions, and just living a life that, as a whole, is more important. That has caused me to kind of clock off at five, basically, which is nice. Because before, I didn't really do that. And it's good to have that realization.
Murugiah: I was also having a lot of conversations with my dad during this lockdown period. He was going through a retirement, and he's a doctor, he's a GP. And he was confessing that he had spent a little too much time working, and not enough time on his family, and social life and friends and stuff. It clicked with me a little bit that I was turning into a version of him, a little bit.
Murugiah: I thought to myself, "Right, every opportunity I can get, that a friend calls, I'll be there, basically." Not the greatest thing to realize during a pandemic, lockdown pandemic. I know, when all of this stuff is over, I'll be the first one out of this office and spending time with loved ones.
Steve Folland: If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Murugiah: I think I would say that, "You'll get there," I think. "You'll get there. It's going to happen sooner than you think." Just messages of reassurance, I think. It's something that I was looking for, at the time,
Murugiah: It's something that I wasn't able to give myself, which I am now. So I think, yeah, that would be it. Just, "You'll get there."
Steve Folland: Nice. Are you someone who has goals, and then, maybe a certain type of work you want to do, or clients that you want to work for. Is that sort of, is that behind you?
Murugiah: I definitely have projects I would like to work on, but I'm not beholden to them. I'm not super, if I never get them, it's not something that I'd be very upset about or down about. But they are in the back of my mind,
Murugiah: I did actually, a couple of days ago, decide to put two bits of information on a whiteboard in front of my desk. One of them was a dream clients list, and the other one was, "What I want to achieve this year, in terms of output."
Murugiah: Just, outside of my regular kind of making of work, what other projects would I like to achieve? And then I do have a dreams clients list. The dream client list is much bigger and wider, and far from what I'm currently capable of, I think.
Murugiah: But it's there for a reason. It's called the dream list for a reason, I guess.
Steve Folland: It's so good to talk to you, and all the best being freelance.
Murugiah: Thanks so much. Thank you for having me on the show, I really appreciate it.
Join us in the Being Freelance community
You’re not alone being freelance.
