The Yorkshire Tea break that didn't end - PR Consultant Sharon Davis
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The Yorkshire Tea break that didn’t end - Freelance PR Consultant Sharon Davis
When things started to feel stale for Sharon around six years into her freelance journey, she took a chance and moved from London to Hawes - a small town in the middle of the Yorkshire Dales, a tourist hotspot in the English countryside.
Needing a break from the norm, Sharon took a job in a pub and, later, the local cheese factory before eventually returning to PR - but not to London.
Sharon’s partner moved up to the Yorkshire Dales and got a job and Sharon went freelance again, taking on two remote roles that came to her through old friends.
Investing in your local community
Sharon stayed in Hawes and, eventually, after getting to know people in the community, she launched Dales Business Women, a network for professional and self-employed women in the Yorkshire Dales.
“One of the things I’ve notice about people up in the Yorkshire Dales is that while they might be working for a local pub or hotel, they all have side hustles. Everyone’s doing something on the side.”
Soon, Sharon’s small local business network was growing, attracting visitors from other small towns further afield. It grew organically into a separate business, which Sharon then incorporated.
“The networking organisation is almost like a feeder into the PR. The women I meet sometimes become clients. I get people attending the training courses that I put on and also some people come on and do full PR projects with me, as well. Membership networks aren’t the most profitable business in the world but mine does pay for itself.”
These days, most of Sharon’s work comes from retainers although she does take on some project work and short-term contracts.
Growing a small team as a freelancer
Back in London, Sharon had rented an office because she wanted a better work-life balance. Soon after, she hired an intern and she’d also developed a freelance arrangement with a designer. They were both coming into the office around one day a week.
Sharon is passionate about growing teams and, in particular, developing younger people. Back then, though, it was too soon. Sharon eventually gave up the intern and the designer and went back to working from home.
This year, in 2020, after lots of big life changes and with two businesses to run, Sharon’s back at that point where she’s hiring a couple of staff again.
“If I didn't have a small child, I may have done that thing where I try to do everything myself and be all things to all men. But actually, having a child has been good for me because it's forced me to look at my priorities, look at what only I can do or what makes the business the business, which is the skill that I bring, and then what can I outsource to people who do it better than me anyway.”
And the one thing Sharon would tell her younger self about being freelance?
“Enjoy the process a lot more and don’t worry. I spent the first three or four years of being a freelancer just riddled with worry and feeling really low on the inside. Actually, looking back, I was doing some good things. I made a lot of mistakes, but I was learning and it set me up for today.”
Hear all of Sharon’s story via the player above (or find it on your favourite podcast app).
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Podcast Transcript
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and freelance PR x Sharon Davis
Transcription by humans at Rev - try them for yourself!
Steve Folland: Okay, as ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance.
Sharon Davis: Sure. So my journey started 10 years ago, back in the middle of 2010. I think I'd always I wanted to be a freelancer, have my own thing. I don't think, for me, being employed was ever going to be a long-term vision, but it was by no means a smooth journey. I think I was in my mid-20s, I was a bit restless, I didn't quite know what I wanted to do in the long-term, but I did know that I wanted to do something of my own. At the time there was a lot of conversation about journalism and the future of journalism, so that's my background. And I decided I wanted to have a stab at making some sort of hyper-local website, but how I make that make money was a thing that daunted me. So maybe it wasn't-
Steve Folland: So you were working as a journalist?
Sharon Davis: So I had worked as a journalist and I had done a little bit of PR, but the current job I was working in was an academy that helps young people from diverse backgrounds access journalism just because it's... Unless you've got somebody who can give you an internship or that sort of thing, it was quite hard to get into. And I may have done the odd freelance thing on the side. But I was really passionate about giving voices to broad audiences, so I decided to set up a news website for Black businesses in London. But I was really scared of the finance side of things, so I wasn't very good at getting advertising at all. And while I did haze a buzz around the site, I kind of fell back into PR and marketing freelance as a way to survive rather than really giving it my all. And actually, to be really honest, I do feel like due to my insecurity at the time and maybe being quite young, having a lot of friends who were just making their way in the world, they had enough money to maybe put a deposit down on a house or they could do things, and I found that really difficult. So I didn't really pursue that line or that trail, I didn't follow that really, but what I did do was I continued in PR and marketing and have done the odd bit of journalism along the way, too.
Steve Folland: So how long did that website last for?
Sharon Davis: Maybe about a year and a half, so I did it properly. I got an intern, I advertised for it. The intern, I don't know why he wanted to work with me, but I look back and it and you know, he was public school educated. He really had a lot going for him, but he was my intern for a good six months and then I got a different intern. I paid them all expenses, I couldn't pay them even minimum wage or anything like that, but I guess in exchange they did get some experience. I really gave them opportunities to go and interview this person and that person. And, I remember at the time, it was not long after Tim Campbell won The Apprentice and one of the interns got to go and interview him.
Sharon Davis: So I did try and create opportunity for them and I tried as much as possible to create as a business, but I was really scared of advertising. So I had problems there. I did go on to, as I say, I sort of then thought, "Okay, I need to do something. I don't want to go back into employment." So freelance PR became the thing that I sort of fell back to, really.
Steve Folland: So where did those first freelance PR clients come from?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it's a good question, so I was thinking about this and, to be fair, in those early days I was doing really, really small jobs here and there. So maybe, I don't know, like a newsletter, it was like PR and marketing. So making a newsletter for this person, a blog entry here. I look back and it was so small that I don't really remember. But I'd say for the first two years of freelance, so between 2010 and 2012, I did a mix between doing a bit of freelancing for the odd very small company for pretty much no money at all and then doing some sort of contract work where I'd be working in-house, but as a contractor. And I think it was through that that I gained my experience, because I wasn't PAYE, but equally it gave me enough security to really work out what I wanted to do. At the end of 2012 I went travelling and I came back in 2013 and I thought, "Okay, this is it, we're going for it." And I think I would say it's from then that I've never really looked back.
Steve Folland: So how did it change in 2013? The way you approached everything. Sharon Davis: I perhaps became a bit more serious, I created the website, I put myself on different websites like PeoplePerHour. And funnily enough, although I wouldn't necessarily use that website now, one of the clients I've had who I've had a really good, long-standing relationship with, they Googled for a freelance contractor or consultant. They found me on PeoplePerHour, went on to my website and then called me through that. So it wasn't as though I was working through the site, but they just found me randomly. I was so surprised that they did. But that turned out to be a really, really excellent gig and I got to do some really brilliant things, arranged some great press conferences and to this day, I have really great relationships with the guys that work there.
Sharon Davis: So it sort of changed, that was around... That was the end of April, May 2013 and then later in that year I did my first serious sales push. Where I Googled a list of 30 different agencies in London and I thought I could maybe do some sort of associate roles or some in-house agency roles, but actually one of the agencies asked me to do their PR. Yeah, I was PR-ing for them and I had that as a contract throughout 2014. And then, I think, that gave me the confidence to grow it from there. Steve Folland: So the sales push was interesting. How did that look like?
Sharon Davis: It's funny actually, because apart from that sales push, the only other one I've done is last month. So it's not something I do frequently, but it was very organic. There was no science behind it, I didn't read any hot spot articles to learn how to do it. I just went online and I just Googled PR agencies, Public Affair agencies London and also, in fact, outside of London. I made a list in Excel, I had a few columns and I just called around, sent some emails, tweaked each email so it was relevant to the right person, had a few interests, but nothing substantial. And actually, the one I ended up getting, I called them and somebody said, "Okay, I'll leave your CV on file. We haven't got anything right now." And then the CEO called me and said, "Actually, we'd like somebody to do our PR for us, can you come in?"
Sharon Davis: And I was petrified, I was so, so scared. But actually, that's then what turned into a proper gig, if you like. And also, at the time, I had been slowly increasing my rate throughout the year because I'd been doing different things. And in one thing I was doing in-house at a London university, somebody was sat opposite me and they said that they had a certain day rate. Which was significantly higher than mine at the time. And I just looked at them and thought, "If she can do it, I can do it." And from that day onwards, I quoted my day rate as that rate and that was the rate that I gave this agency that then took me on. And I was really scared that they'd turn around and say no, they didn't say anything, they just took it as it was and yeah. That also then elevated me to another level, yet again.
Steve Folland: So going forward from that point on, you were working for them, but that was on a retainer. It wasn't a full-time thing with them, you were working with other people, right? Sharon Davis: Yes, so it was six days a month and then that took me into 2014 and then I started to pick up a few other things, I got another contract that was actually 10 days a month. But yeah, all on my own sort of terms. I was working from home doing all of that, I'd go in for meetings say once a month with each client and then that took me right through. And then, from then it was very much like that and what I decided to do... Because I've always been passionate about trying to help smaller voices gain access in the media, so I tried... Not necessarily always successfully, but to create smaller packages for really small businesses. So I had these much smaller clients who maybe paid for, I don't know, a day a month, if you like. And then I had the bigger clients who are paying for much more.
Sharon Davis: And loosely, that is the model I've tried to run my business on even up until now. But I've had to make some adjustments because sometimes yeah, it doesn't always work that way. But I have always wanted to make PR or the media conversation accessible to as many different types of people as possible.
Steve Folland: Nice, so you make sure that you get enough of the higher-paying jobs that your business can then afford to help the others.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly that. And that's how, back then, I continue to run it. But I look back at that and I had this package, it was absolutely ridiculous, where I offered to do... I forget the exact figures, but it was like 10 blocks a month for, I don't know, a couple of 100 or 20 for... It was ridiculous, for 300 or whatever. And I can see why people took it up because it was too good to be true. I don't get anything like that at all, but the idea was it was supposed to be a real sort of... "We'll do some bulk blocks for you so that you have blocks for the next six months and don't have to worry about it." And while that theory was good, yeah. I mean, gosh that was very ridiculous and silly.
Steve Folland: So were you mostly working from home?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was and then towards the end of 2014, I took on a small office. At that point I was living in Romford and that lasted about eight or nine months and then I came back home just because... Yeah, it was quite expensive really. I was living in quite a small flat and I wanted to have a way to separate my personal life from my business life, but back then, before I did that, I used to use Regus. I mean, gosh, do they even exist? That sounds so historic saying that now, but I used to use their lounges to work besides that, anyway.
Steve Folland: Yeah, because that's kind of like before co-working spaces kicked off.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, yeah before it all got really cool. They were the go-to co-working space, if you like.
Steve Folland: Yeah, they were kind of like the places where travelling salesmen across the country would stop in to. Those kind of things.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, and those were the exact sort of people I met in them. Some really wonderful people, but that profile was definitely who you'd meet in a Regus business lounge.
Steve Folland: Yeah, forgot about that. But what was that experience like? You eventually decided it wasn't worth the cost.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so I think for me, I think I maybe did get a bit excited, maybe sort of pushed myself beyond what I could do, but I think it then just got in the way of actually what I wanted to do. Now, the thing is, I have a really strategic mind, so for me, the entrepreneurial side of things and growing the business into a business is something I'm really passionate about. So that's what I tried to do, I took on an intern to help with some of the clients I had. And then there was a designer who was doing some creative things and I took him on, as well. Although it was a freelance arrangement. Now, I could've done both of those things with the intern and the freelance designer, but they sort of came into the office a day a week, for example, and it just became too formal before it needed to be, if that makes sense. Whereas I could've kept it quite casual for a lot longer, so it just took me too far away from what I actually loved doing and I had to reel it back in, really.
Steve Folland: But you grew yourself a team really quite soon.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I did and I... The thing is that is, I think, has always been my heart. I feel, in terms of leadership, that is what I get most passionate about and also developing the younger people, as well. So I did do that, but I think, because I'm kind of doing something a bit similar now which is working much better, but back then I don't think I did it properly, if that makes sense. So while I had the passion and the interest, I... Well, I say very quickly, but maybe a year later had to then scale back to being freelance again. Steve Folland: Did you have any business advice or mentorship or were you... I don't want to say making it up as you go along...
Sharon Davis: No, it's true. Yeah, yeah totally. Yeah, definitely the latter. Because I was doing a lot of networking there were a few people who were business coaches, but back then I really... I was so sceptical of business coaches and I remember in the end, I gave in and there was one lady who charged x amount of money for a compact day session. And it was all right, but it didn't really an impact on my business. So from that point onwards, I just thought, "I'm just going to go it alone." Now, I am part of... My sort of PR, it's like a PR professional body, I'm part of that so I did the odd bit of training through that and I do do networking with like-minded people. But, at that time, I didn't have a formal mentor or business coach, no. I was making it up as I went along.
Steve Folland: Yeah. So how did things start to change from there? To you decide to cut that overhead, to go back home.
Sharon Davis: I think the thing for me with just freelancing, I got to the point where I thought, "If it's just about freelancing from home and just doing this in this solitary way that I was doing it." I just felt like it just sort of like lost it's passion for me and because, for me, PR is a means to an end. It plays a bigger picture. My passion is helping businesses to communicate a wider message, be that to media, their audience or whatever, whatever. And I was starting to lose my way a bit and so the PR in and of itself just grew a bit tiring, I was doing a lot of media relations which is basically just calling journalists and trying to pitch stories. And just that process, just doing that repeatedly just grew a bit stale. So actually, I did take a break from PR for a bit, so now well into 2016, I've made it that far. And I'd say around May 2016 I decided that I was just going to take a step back from PR not knowing whether I'd go back to it again. You know, fast forward I actually have gone back to it.
Steve Folland: Spoiler alert.
Sharon Davis: Exactly, yeah. In fact, and to be fair, I really believe actually that being a freelancer, running your business it's a lifestyle and actually it was the following January, so 2017, when I went back to it. And I do think there is something that just draws you to it if that is how you are wired, if that makes sense. So I had a nine, eight-month break and that is what I moved over to the Yorkshire Dales and that's a whole different story. But that is a time in which I moved and then things took a whole different trajectory from there.
Steve Folland: How intriguing. So you were in London, you moved to Yorkshire Dales, which for people around the world, is a long way to have moved. It's a beautiful part of the country, but probably about five hours North of London and it's beautiful rolling countryside. If you've ever watched Postman Pat, it's that kind of thing. Hang on, you decided your heart wasn't in the PR type thing or whatever you were doing. So what did you do? Did you go and work for somebody else?
Sharon Davis: Yes, at the time I thought that I was just going to give this a break, so I went through a period prior to May '16 so maybe just a couple of months say, between February and May, where I started applying for jobs. And I was going for everything, I was going for Civil Service roles, I was looking at the private sector, I looked across the board. I guess the makeup of my experience, it just didn't work and I remember I had two interviews. One where they had really good feedback, but nothing else to say. I was through an agency and she goes, "Yep, they really liked you." But then, I never heard anything back and another one where they said that I was really strong, but there was somebody who had more sector or industry experience.
Sharon Davis: So it was disheartening, but not because obviously I had the skill, but for one reason or another I wasn't the right makeup for an employed job. So I got to the point where I got really frustrated and I said to myself... So I knew of some people who had moved to the Dales and I said to myself, "I'm just going to see what happens and I might just go to the Dales, just for three months. When in my life do I not have any commitments and can just make a decision like this? I'll try it out and see what happens." I Googled work in Hawes which is in the middle of Wensleydale in the middle of nowhere-
Steve Folland: I was going to say, we should probably emphasize that Hawes is a place.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it really is. And when we say remote, I find that my friends who have since come to visit me... I say remote, but I guess if you've brought up in London, you have no frame of reference for what remote really means. But Hawes in particular, you have to travel in about 17 miles in any direction to get to the next big town. So it is quite remote. And randomly enough, online there was a hotel looking for waitresses and I called the guy up and he said, "When can you start?" And I was like, "Oh my God, no. I've got to follow through in what I said." And then, funnily enough, shortly after that I then got offered a role, a PR role, working for, I think it was Lambeth College. It was a college in South London and I'd be working directly with the CEO, really exciting stuff. But then I just thought, "You know what? Let's just have a break from the norm and do something different."So I took the Yorkshire Dales role and despite feeling like it was might be a summer's thing, I'm still here today.
Steve Folland: All right, this is amazing. So instead of taking the PR job in London doing what you've been doing since you didn't have to be there, you decide to go to... I don't want to say the middle of nowhere, I love the Yorkshire Dales, but relatively speaking so. And you took the waitressing job.
Sharon Davis: I did. Oh my gosh, what a baptism of fire that was. So the job in London was paid three and a half times more than the job in the Yorkshire Dales, but yeah. Leaving Wales, the cost of living for this time on this Dale is very low. And it was really difficult, I never did a waitressing stint and Uni or when I was younger and oh my gosh, it was really hard. I really struggled for the first few weeks, the hours were long, I was working for 45 hour weeks. And bear it in mind, I'm used to being my own boss and by this point, we're talking 2016... Yeah, for six years now I've largely been my own boss, so it was really difficult. But I think as I relaxed into it, I just met people from all over the world and actually it became interesting for a completely different reason. It was just fascinating.
Sharon Davis: And it was so far out of my experience. I went to university in Nottingham and then lived there for three more years, so I'm not the type of Londoner who hasn't left the M25. But equally this was so different from my experience and in a strange kind of way, yeah it was quite enjoyable. Yeah.
Steve Folland: I mean, that kind of move sounds like... That's a lifestyle choice. You mentioned lifestyle of freelancing, but that's a lifestyle choice to get out of the city to right in the middle of the countryside. And to do something which wasn't anything like you'd been doing, as well. So how did it move on from there? To me introducing you four years later as a PR consultant?
Sharon Davis: I know, yeah. It did move on. Again, it wasn't a straight forward journey, but I did that into the Autumn and actually had quite an interesting argument with the guy who runs it. So that ended. It's fine, we're friends now. And then it's winter, so bearing in mind the Hawes is a tourist town. So in the winter things, they really die. The contrast is just unbelievable. So I actually worked in the Wensleydale Creamery for six weeks and that took me until the end of the year.
Steve Folland: Making cheese? Sharon Davis: Yes. You have to call it an adventure, right? So they would move you around, like for me to the cheese-making department or you'd be doing packaging and labelling. And the contrast was massive because packaging and labelling was freezing, you're pretty much in this cold warehouse and it was December. And then the factory itself was boiling, it was really, really hot. So it was really interesting, that took me through to the end of the year. Again, met some lovely people. There's a really lovely Eastern European community and I made some really good friends with some of those people and also the locals, as well. It was just interesting.
Sharon Davis: But, in the back of my mind I am thinking. So at this point, I was 31, 32, I was 32. And I was thinking, "What am I doing with my life? What am I doing? Have I completely committed career suicide?" And then, a whole bit of personal story that probably isn't not for now. Me and my partner then, he moved up. He got a job here and then I decided to freelance. And then, from that point onwards things are quite normal again.
Steve Folland: Honestly this is going to make a great film, Sharon. So he moves up to join you in the Dales, you've convinced him you've hit it big in the cheese and then he gets a job and you go back into PR. So how? While you were working at the Creamery, were you looking for PR jobs?
Sharon Davis: So at this point, I still thought that I had killed my career and thought that maybe I was destined for a life in cheese. Who knew? And the thing is also to mention about here, and this quite a serious point, is that for young people the opportunities in areas like that, they're quite limited. So people either leave and go to Uni or don't come back or they come back and work in, say, a waitressing job or a factory job that... There just aren't many professional roles. So in that sense, for me, the future there looks bleak. But randomly, of all the jobs that could be applied for... So Tim, he got a job working for the National Park and that was actually a professional-grade job and that sort of set him off. So then I had to think about, "Well, I can either go back or am I going to stay?" It was a massive crossroads for me.
Sharon Davis: And incidentally, at that time, we're now into January 2017, two different people say... People that I know quite well, both approached me in January asking me to freelance for their companies and that sort of set me up really. So I think I knew that I was going to have to create my own way up there, it wasn't going to be that I was going to work for a really cool PR agency, for example.
Steve Folland: So the companies that approached you and offered you PR work, were they local in the Dales or were they from life previous?
Sharon Davis: A mixture. So in fact, I knew them both from life previous, but one I'd actually known here from university. And she was now sort of loosely in the area and she had a business in Thirsk which was about an hour and a bit from where I was living. So it was local, but I could still do a day from home if you like. And then the other one was down South completely, so it was completely separate. Again, obviously I could do it remotely. And that was a pure marketing role, actually, that one.
Steve Folland: Wow. By the way, just to say, I've got nothing against waitressing or working in factories.
Sharon Davis: Me neither.
Steve Folland: It's just surprising when you've been PR, PR, PR and I know on the other side of it there's PR, PR, PR. So I think it's lovely, actually, that you kind of, I don't know.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it was actually really humbling, as well. Because I think for me, none of us have anything against those sorts of roles, but we probably do have a perception of those types of roles. So then to be doing them and even just seeing people who'd made a career or a life long job out of it and how happy and content they were. I don't want to sound patronizing or anything like that, but for me, coming from the background I've come from. I come from a West African family and you're just told that you've got to do well. So seeing that was just completely outside of my experience, but also really humbling and I think I learned a lot. Not necessarily from a career point of view, but a lot of life skills that I think add to the richness of life's wonderful experience. So in that sense, it was a nice detour, but equally, I was glad to get back into what I knew back in 2017.
Steve Folland: So 2017 you go back into freelance PR, you're deciding to work in the Dales, but by this point compared to 2010 when you started out, of course remote work had become a far more common place.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly. And by this point, the whole freelance boom is well and truly underway. And it's funny because sometimes I look back and I've always wanted to be a freelancer/businesswoman. It was always part of what I wanted to do, it wasn't something I fell into. And then so to see it become a boom, I sometimes found that a bit strange. Having said that, going back into it 2017 I was a very different PR or freelancer to what I was in 2010. And I would say the way I describe the last four years I've been up North is, I love the North for all the opportunities that there are, it feels like there's a bit of uncharted territory, but I love that I've also had some experience which enables me to make more of the situation, as well rather than sort of learn as I go along.
Steve Folland: So how has it been different then? How did you grow your business again PR wise this time in a new place?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so round two. It was a mixture really, so I guess when I took on those two roles. I wasn't clear that okay, this is us. We're here for the foreseeable future and this is now my business. I would say much of 2017 was sort of taking it a step at a time and seeing what happened. But then towards the end of 2017, I fell pregnant and then I decided that the thought of being a mom just stuck in the middle of nowhere just didn't fill me with much joy. So I decided to launch something called Dales Business Women just to meet like-minded women because, for me, to meet women who'd had some sort of similar experience to me so that I could grow through that, as well.
Sharon Davis: And, in fact, that has now grown and that's now a business in and of itself and feeds in quite nicely with my PR business because I get... It's through the women that I know in that business that I sometimes take on and they become clients in my PR business now. And I'm not back at that point again where I've just this year taken on a couple of staff and I'm glad to say it's been a lot better than it did back in whatever, 20 something, 2014. And yeah, that sort of strategic vision for communications and PR and helping businesses to gain some sort of wider reach is back. I feel like I'm doing it better than I have been before.
Steve Folland: That's so interesting, Dales Business Women. So what is that? Like a networking thing? How would you describe that?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I'd describe it as a networking. Yeah, it's a networking organization. When I first started, I just casually arranged a few events in the following year. And in fact, the first event was due to happen three weeks before I was due to have a baby. But because of the Beast from the East which happened that year, it then happened three weeks after I just had a baby.
Steve Folland: Oh my God, I should explain. The Beast from the East was a huge snowstorm which came in and would've cut off the area. So did you go looking for a networking event first?
Sharon Davis: No, that's the thing. I just decided that... So through the work at the hotel and the creamery... Because one of the things I've noticed about people up in the Yorkshire Dales is, while they do have... They might be working for a local pub, a hotel, that sort of thing, a lot of them... It's brilliant that they all have side hustles, they're all doing something on the side. So the more you got to know people, everyone was doing something on the side. So initially I launched it just for people maybe in Hawes, people that I'd met over the past year before that. But then actually it grew and I'd say businesses or people from Cumbria came, people from Northallerton which is an hour in the opposite direction and it grew much more quickly than I could've thought. And then I realized in 2018 that we had something there and that's when I incorporated it as its own company.
Steve Folland: Wow. How many people are involved in this? And how often do you meet?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so pre-Corona we had 24 events lined up for this year. We have 50 paying members, but then we also have another, I don't know, 25 or so who just come to the events casually. And actually when I was setting up Dales Business Women, a local counsellor who... I applied for some funding through a local council and a counsellor had to endorse it. And he said to me, "Look, if you get four people rock up to your event, you're doing really well. I'm not saying it to demoralize you, but you need to know that people here, they're hard-working, they're busy, they've got three or four jobs, you need to bear that in mind." Our first event we had nine people and then our second event, we had about 20 and the momentum has just grown from there. And so to have 50 members for me, feels like... It may not sound like much if you're in a city, but for around here, yeah. It's quite decent. So yeah, it's grown quite a bit in the last few years.
Steve Folland: That's awesome. And so, it sounds like its helped your business, as well because obviously you're meeting... Any business could use your services, I guess. Has it helped you as a person, as well?
Sharon Davis: So yeah, I think I mentioned. So once I had my baby, I'm just not the most mumsy mom, if you like. So mom groups just weren't going to cut it for me, it just wasn't really my thing and going to one group a week was my limit. But I have found that through the business network, I gained a whole community of friends. Even just from sort of a friendship in an emotional point of view, I've gained a lot through it from that. It pays for itself, it's not like it's... I think membership networks, it's not the most profitable business in the world, but it does pay for itself. But, yeah the big business benefit, as I said, is it's almost like a feeder into the PR because I do then get people on the training courses that I put on and also some people come on and do full-on PR projects with me, as well.
Steve Folland: Okay, something to pick up on there. You do training courses?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, gosh this was going to be my year for that, but it hasn't happened in the way that I thought. I was going to have three or four throughout the year and we're going to have one, maybe. But yeah, I guess one of the ways I decided to scratch the itch for wanting to help smaller businesses to do their own PR or understand the PR process. I think the most viable way for that is through training because it doesn't always work to do it as a campaign or as a retainer. So that's what I do with those sorts of businesses and I've done that one to one and hopefully, I'm hoping that these courses when we can eventually get them going properly will be quite frequent, as well.
Steve Folland: I see, so a way to help them do their own PR. Sharon Davis: Yes, yeah.
Steve Folland: So how does your business look beyond that? I know for example, do you do a project for a certain amount of time or is it all retainers? If we were to look at what it's looked like the last couple of years.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it's a real mix. I think retainers are by far my biggest... That's my model and that's how I get a lot of my work. But then I do get a lot of project work and short-term work. I had last year a couple of clients who took me on as a copywriter to rewrite all the copy on their website or if somebody's doing a launch event they might just take me on for say, three months. I think with PR I'm very much at the minimum project has to be three months because, as I'm sure you'll understand, results aren't instant. And so really make sure that you're getting value for money, you're doing it well. I do a minimum three-month commitment project. But then, other than that, it's mainly retainer and that generally is how this works for me.
Steve Folland: How do you deal with the process of that? As in, when do people pay you? We often hear the phrase retainer, but for people who don't do it... And it can work in lots of different ways, to be fair. How do you do with that?
Sharon Davis: Yeah. So up until this year, it was you pay on the first of every month ahead of that month, if that makes sense. And what I decided to do wasn't because I had... Back in 2018 when I had my daughter, although I was doing the networking while she was quite small, it was when she was six months I went back into PR properly. And I thought because I'm now so busy, I've got this networking group, I've got a small baby, I decided to use GoCardless. Their direct debit system and that was really helpful because, for some clients, they just signed up so that comes out on the first of every month automatically. Some didn't want to do that, but they still got billed at the first of the month. Some also didn't like that so we had to do a halfway house, where they paid half upfront and then paid after that, if that makes sense. But this year we have actually... Because I took on an office manager/finance person who works across both businesses. And we agreed that we would offer an up-front payment system in return for extra days and yeah. We just had a client pay up-front for their year's contract, which is quite nice.
Steve Folland: So they've paid a whole year up-front?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, because of the way their financial year is, they paid for nine months and then when the tax year comes back around then they'll pay for the remaining three months. But yeah, they pay for that nine months up-front which is good.
Steve Folland: That's cool. As an incentive they get bonus days.
Sharon Davis: Yes, exactly so that feels like... Because also, I guess where I do now have the office manager and I have a marketing intern, yeah. Having that cash flow is really important right now.
Steve Folland: Yes, so talk me through that. You have an office to manage, I presume?
Sharon Davis: So we all work from home. Even without COVID, we're working from home. So we have a loft bedroom/office where we work. And before COVID, Samantha the office manager, was working a day a week from this office and a day a week from home. But as it stands now, yeah. Everyone's at home, so it's a remote team, but they're employees.
Steve Folland: And they're all local so you can meet up?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly. So we'll see how it goes.
Steve Folland: And how are you getting on then with... As you said, you've got an entrepreneurial side to you, it was obvious really early on for you wanted to be more than just yourself. How did you know when it was right to bring people on and what to get them to do and things like that?
Sharon Davis: So with Dales Business Women, I always had a VA because I couldn't do that and do the PR and look after a little one. And it got the point with the VA where she was really great, she was brilliant, but just was a bit counterproductive. So she was remote, I was having to send her all these voicemails and tell her what to do. It became a bit cumbersome if that makes sense. So towards the end of last year, I thought it's better just to take on somebody who can actually take ownership of that role. And I think that was it for me, it was a point at which I knew that ownership needed to be taken over some of the roles I was outsourcing. I had a marketing freelancer who did the odd bit of stuff for me, as well, And I think for me, it just got to the point towards the end of last year where it felt like I need people who are buying into the company and I can help them to grow and develop, too. And that's what we did at the beginning of this year. So far, so good, but we'll how it goes. 2020 isn't over yet.
Steve Folland: Who knows what's going to happen? God, it's almost like you've done it all at once. Because obviously starting a family, as well, but it's... How do you fit everything in? Was bringing people on because you couldn't do what they were doing or because you needed that time?
Sharon Davis: It's a really good question, actually because I've often thought about this. If I didn't have a small child, I may have done that thing where I try to do everything myself and be all things to all men. But actually, having a child has been good for me because it's forced me to look at my priorities, look at what only I can do or what makes the business the business, which is the skill that I bring, and then what can I outsource to people who do it better than me anyway. And the thing is, I'm an accountant's daughter. So my dad used to give me receipts to enter into spreadsheets. So I feel, and maybe I'm not the typical creative and I wouldn't necessarily call myself a creative, because I can do that sort of spreadsheet stuff, too. But that sometimes is a problem, when you think you can do it all.
Sharon Davis: Whereas having a child forced me to think, "Okay, it doesn't matter if I can do it, what do I do best?" So I think I brought them on because my time is limited and with the time that I do have, I want to make as much money as possible.
Steve Folland: And there's a thing in itself, as well. To make as much money as possible when you're bringing those people on, you then have to really think about your pricing.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so we have restructured our pricing. I have a local price and a non-local price because, yeah... When you step into the Dales, the culture, everything changes. So yeah, I just think based on a nearly virtual agency, given that I do outsource stuff, I think that's been quite a challenge, trying to get the right rates. But I have increased it from what it was last year. But I have a rate that is different for people who stay within the Dales to those who aren't.
Steve Folland: Which is great, though because it means that you're really supporting that local community that you moved into.
Sharon Davis: Trying to, yeah. Really trying my hardest to find ways to do that, yeah. It goes a long way in small communities when you invest into the community, I find.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Actually I introduced you as a PR consultant and I guess... Is that because you... Instead of, as you mentioned when you had enough of it, you were always hitting the phones or whatever just trying to get media. Now you're more thinking about it strategically, but then hiring people to do the work... I don't want to say under you, but you know what I mean. So you're keeping the work in-house-
Sharon Davis: Yeah, totally. I think for me, with just where I'm at in life and everything, I really enjoy that sort of bigger picture, looking at the integrated combs, how it all fits together and I think, yeah. I'm now in a place where I can give a younger person the opportunities so they can also test their skill, but without having to do all that work. Because PR is great, but it is quite labour-intensive. So if I can pull back and just focus on the strategy, that's great. At present I still promote me as the business because that's what people are buying and that's why I still... At this stage, it might change even in a year's time, I would still say that I am a freelancer/PR consultant. So the way you explained it is very much my vision for the next few years.
Steve Folland: Yeah, so people work with Sharon Davis.
Sharon Davis: Well, in fact we do have... It is called Dales PR and Marketing, but ultimately it is still me and I'm in the process of setting up my Sharon A. Davis website which is going to focus more on me as... To me as a person, so a look at my PR skills, a look at some of my journalistic stuff and other things, too. So I'm really trying to maintain the brand Sharon Davis while growing something local for the community, as well. And beyond.
Steve Folland: That reminds me of when we had Ross Simmons on earlier this year.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I listened to that.
Steve Folland: Yeah, so he had an agency, but he maintained his own personal brand of Ross Simmons bringing in the work to the agency. So you have Dales PR and Marketing, but you're deciding that actually you're going to also have a different website which is driving home you as the expert.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, certainly. I was on a PR talk the other day and I talk about how, the natural progression through the agency or your career, means by the time you get to PR director level, you're not really doing any PR anymore. I think while I obviously want to grow the business, I still am the... It's my journalistic background and the PR expertise that makes the business what it is. So I don't want to ever get too far away from that. And that's why I think having brand Sharon Davis while still having the company, as well. I think that's always going to be really important.
Steve Folland: It's been such a wonderful story, but I feel like I've not touched upon lots of different things. So let me just quickly check a few things off. How would you feel like your work-life balances today?
Sharon Davis: I think, oh gosh, it's a work in progress. I think on the whole, it's great, but I think in reality, it's a bit messier than great. So I always wanted to work part-time so I could be with my daughter a few days a week while working a few days a week. But more often than not, on the days that I'm not working, I'm either working early doors before the day starts or in the evening, as well. So yeah, it's hard. I say I'm trying to rectify that and I do for a bit and then things get busy and it changes. But on the whole, I do try and put boundaries in place so that it's not too chaotic.
Steve Folland: Now, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Sharon Davis: I would've told her to just enjoy the process a lot more and not to worry. I spent the first three years, three, four years of being a freelancer just riddled with worry and really concerned about me not doing enough for where I was at my age and all this stuff. And feeling really low on the inside. And I just wish I'd enjoyed it a lot more because actually, looking back, I was doing some good things. I made a lot of mistakes, but I was learning and it set me up for today.
Steve Folland: So good to talk to you, Sharon. All the best being freelance.
Sharon Davis: Thank you, thank you for inviting me.
Steve Folland: Okay, as ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance.
Sharon Davis: Sure. So my journey started 10 years ago, back in the middle of 2010. I think I'd always I wanted to be a freelancer, have my own thing. I don't think, for me, being employed was ever going to be a long-term vision, but it was by no means a smooth journey. I think I was in my mid-20s, I was a bit restless, I didn't quite know what I wanted to do in the long-term, but I did know that I wanted to do something of my own. At the time there was a lot of conversation about journalism and the future of journalism, so that's my background. And I decided I wanted to have a stab at making some sort of hyper-local website, but how I make that make money was a thing that daunted me. So maybe it wasn't-
Steve Folland: So you were working as a journalist?
Sharon Davis: So I had worked as a journalist and I had done a little bit of PR, but the current job I was working in was an academy that helps young people from diverse backgrounds access journalism just because it's... Unless you've got somebody who can give you an internship or that sort of thing, it was quite hard to get into. And I may have done the odd freelance thing on the side. But I was really passionate about giving voices to broad audiences, so I decided to set up a news website for Black businesses in London. But I was really scared of the finance side of things, so I wasn't very good at getting advertising at all. And while I did haze a buzz around the site, I kind of fell back into PR and marketing freelance as a way to survive rather than really giving it my all. And actually, to be really honest, I do feel like due to my insecurity at the time and maybe being quite young, having a lot of friends who were just making their way in the world, they had enough money to maybe put a deposit down on a house or they could do things, and I found that really difficult. So I didn't really pursue that line or that trail, I didn't follow that really, but what I did do was I continued in PR and marketing and have done the odd bit of journalism along the way, too.
Steve Folland: So how long did that website last for?
Sharon Davis: Maybe about a year and a half, so I did it properly. I got an intern, I advertised for it. The intern, I don't know why he wanted to work with me, but I look back and it and you know, he was public school educated. He really had a lot going for him, but he was my intern for a good six months and then I got a different intern. I paid them all expenses, I couldn't pay them even minimum wage or anything like that, but I guess in exchange they did get some experience. I really gave them opportunities to go and interview this person and that person. And, I remember at the time, it was not long after Tim Campbell won The Apprentice and one of the interns got to go and interview him.
Sharon Davis: So I did try and create opportunity for them and I tried as much as possible to create as a business, but I was really scared of advertising. So I had problems there. I did go on to, as I say, I sort of then thought, "Okay, I need to do something. I don't want to go back into employment." So freelance PR became the thing that I sort of fell back to, really.
Steve Folland: So where did those first freelance PR clients come from?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it's a good question, so I was thinking about this and, to be fair, in those early days I was doing really, really small jobs here and there. So maybe, I don't know, like a newsletter, it was like PR and marketing. So making a newsletter for this person, a blog entry here. I look back and it was so small that I don't really remember. But I'd say for the first two years of freelance, so between 2010 and 2012, I did a mix between doing a bit of freelancing for the odd very small company for pretty much no money at all and then doing some sort of contract work where I'd be working in-house, but as a contractor. And I think it was through that that I gained my experience, because I wasn't PAYE, but equally it gave me enough security to really work out what I wanted to do. At the end of 2012 I went travelling and I came back in 2013 and I thought, "Okay, this is it, we're going for it." And I think I would say it's from then that I've never really looked back.
Steve Folland: So how did it change in 2013? The way you approached everything. Sharon Davis: I perhaps became a bit more serious, I created the website, I put myself on different websites like PeoplePerHour. And funnily enough, although I wouldn't necessarily use that website now, one of the clients I've had who I've had a really good, long-standing relationship with, they Googled for a freelance contractor or consultant. They found me on PeoplePerHour, went on to my website and then called me through that. So it wasn't as though I was working through the site, but they just found me randomly. I was so surprised that they did. But that turned out to be a really, really excellent gig and I got to do some really brilliant things, arranged some great press conferences and to this day, I have really great relationships with the guys that work there.
Sharon Davis: So it sort of changed, that was around... That was the end of April, May 2013 and then later in that year I did my first serious sales push. Where I Googled a list of 30 different agencies in London and I thought I could maybe do some sort of associate roles or some in-house agency roles, but actually one of the agencies asked me to do their PR. Yeah, I was PR-ing for them and I had that as a contract throughout 2014. And then, I think, that gave me the confidence to grow it from there. Steve Folland: So the sales push was interesting. How did that look like?
Sharon Davis: It's funny actually, because apart from that sales push, the only other one I've done is last month. So it's not something I do frequently, but it was very organic. There was no science behind it, I didn't read any hot spot articles to learn how to do it. I just went online and I just Googled PR agencies, Public Affair agencies London and also, in fact, outside of London. I made a list in Excel, I had a few columns and I just called around, sent some emails, tweaked each email so it was relevant to the right person, had a few interests, but nothing substantial. And actually, the one I ended up getting, I called them and somebody said, "Okay, I'll leave your CV on file. We haven't got anything right now." And then the CEO called me and said, "Actually, we'd like somebody to do our PR for us, can you come in?"
Sharon Davis: And I was petrified, I was so, so scared. But actually, that's then what turned into a proper gig, if you like. And also, at the time, I had been slowly increasing my rate throughout the year because I'd been doing different things. And in one thing I was doing in-house at a London university, somebody was sat opposite me and they said that they had a certain day rate. Which was significantly higher than mine at the time. And I just looked at them and thought, "If she can do it, I can do it." And from that day onwards, I quoted my day rate as that rate and that was the rate that I gave this agency that then took me on. And I was really scared that they'd turn around and say no, they didn't say anything, they just took it as it was and yeah. That also then elevated me to another level, yet again.
Steve Folland: So going forward from that point on, you were working for them, but that was on a retainer. It wasn't a full-time thing with them, you were working with other people, right? Sharon Davis: Yes, so it was six days a month and then that took me into 2014 and then I started to pick up a few other things, I got another contract that was actually 10 days a month. But yeah, all on my own sort of terms. I was working from home doing all of that, I'd go in for meetings say once a month with each client and then that took me right through. And then, from then it was very much like that and what I decided to do... Because I've always been passionate about trying to help smaller voices gain access in the media, so I tried... Not necessarily always successfully, but to create smaller packages for really small businesses. So I had these much smaller clients who maybe paid for, I don't know, a day a month, if you like. And then I had the bigger clients who are paying for much more.
Sharon Davis: And loosely, that is the model I've tried to run my business on even up until now. But I've had to make some adjustments because sometimes yeah, it doesn't always work that way. But I have always wanted to make PR or the media conversation accessible to as many different types of people as possible.
Steve Folland: Nice, so you make sure that you get enough of the higher-paying jobs that your business can then afford to help the others.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly that. And that's how, back then, I continue to run it. But I look back at that and I had this package, it was absolutely ridiculous, where I offered to do... I forget the exact figures, but it was like 10 blocks a month for, I don't know, a couple of 100 or 20 for... It was ridiculous, for 300 or whatever. And I can see why people took it up because it was too good to be true. I don't get anything like that at all, but the idea was it was supposed to be a real sort of... "We'll do some bulk blocks for you so that you have blocks for the next six months and don't have to worry about it." And while that theory was good, yeah. I mean, gosh that was very ridiculous and silly.
Steve Folland: So were you mostly working from home?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was and then towards the end of 2014, I took on a small office. At that point I was living in Romford and that lasted about eight or nine months and then I came back home just because... Yeah, it was quite expensive really. I was living in quite a small flat and I wanted to have a way to separate my personal life from my business life, but back then, before I did that, I used to use Regus. I mean, gosh, do they even exist? That sounds so historic saying that now, but I used to use their lounges to work besides that, anyway.
Steve Folland: Yeah, because that's kind of like before co-working spaces kicked off.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, yeah before it all got really cool. They were the go-to co-working space, if you like.
Steve Folland: Yeah, they were kind of like the places where travelling salesmen across the country would stop in to. Those kind of things.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, and those were the exact sort of people I met in them. Some really wonderful people, but that profile was definitely who you'd meet in a Regus business lounge.
Steve Folland: Yeah, forgot about that. But what was that experience like? You eventually decided it wasn't worth the cost.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so I think for me, I think I maybe did get a bit excited, maybe sort of pushed myself beyond what I could do, but I think it then just got in the way of actually what I wanted to do. Now, the thing is, I have a really strategic mind, so for me, the entrepreneurial side of things and growing the business into a business is something I'm really passionate about. So that's what I tried to do, I took on an intern to help with some of the clients I had. And then there was a designer who was doing some creative things and I took him on, as well. Although it was a freelance arrangement. Now, I could've done both of those things with the intern and the freelance designer, but they sort of came into the office a day a week, for example, and it just became too formal before it needed to be, if that makes sense. Whereas I could've kept it quite casual for a lot longer, so it just took me too far away from what I actually loved doing and I had to reel it back in, really.
Steve Folland: But you grew yourself a team really quite soon.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I did and I... The thing is that is, I think, has always been my heart. I feel, in terms of leadership, that is what I get most passionate about and also developing the younger people, as well. So I did do that, but I think, because I'm kind of doing something a bit similar now which is working much better, but back then I don't think I did it properly, if that makes sense. So while I had the passion and the interest, I... Well, I say very quickly, but maybe a year later had to then scale back to being freelance again. Steve Folland: Did you have any business advice or mentorship or were you... I don't want to say making it up as you go along...
Sharon Davis: No, it's true. Yeah, yeah totally. Yeah, definitely the latter. Because I was doing a lot of networking there were a few people who were business coaches, but back then I really... I was so sceptical of business coaches and I remember in the end, I gave in and there was one lady who charged x amount of money for a compact day session. And it was all right, but it didn't really an impact on my business. So from that point onwards, I just thought, "I'm just going to go it alone." Now, I am part of... My sort of PR, it's like a PR professional body, I'm part of that so I did the odd bit of training through that and I do do networking with like-minded people. But, at that time, I didn't have a formal mentor or business coach, no. I was making it up as I went along.
Steve Folland: Yeah. So how did things start to change from there? To you decide to cut that overhead, to go back home.
Sharon Davis: I think the thing for me with just freelancing, I got to the point where I thought, "If it's just about freelancing from home and just doing this in this solitary way that I was doing it." I just felt like it just sort of like lost it's passion for me and because, for me, PR is a means to an end. It plays a bigger picture. My passion is helping businesses to communicate a wider message, be that to media, their audience or whatever, whatever. And I was starting to lose my way a bit and so the PR in and of itself just grew a bit tiring, I was doing a lot of media relations which is basically just calling journalists and trying to pitch stories. And just that process, just doing that repeatedly just grew a bit stale. So actually, I did take a break from PR for a bit, so now well into 2016, I've made it that far. And I'd say around May 2016 I decided that I was just going to take a step back from PR not knowing whether I'd go back to it again. You know, fast forward I actually have gone back to it.
Steve Folland: Spoiler alert.
Sharon Davis: Exactly, yeah. In fact, and to be fair, I really believe actually that being a freelancer, running your business it's a lifestyle and actually it was the following January, so 2017, when I went back to it. And I do think there is something that just draws you to it if that is how you are wired, if that makes sense. So I had a nine, eight-month break and that is what I moved over to the Yorkshire Dales and that's a whole different story. But that is a time in which I moved and then things took a whole different trajectory from there.
Steve Folland: How intriguing. So you were in London, you moved to Yorkshire Dales, which for people around the world, is a long way to have moved. It's a beautiful part of the country, but probably about five hours North of London and it's beautiful rolling countryside. If you've ever watched Postman Pat, it's that kind of thing. Hang on, you decided your heart wasn't in the PR type thing or whatever you were doing. So what did you do? Did you go and work for somebody else?
Sharon Davis: Yes, at the time I thought that I was just going to give this a break, so I went through a period prior to May '16 so maybe just a couple of months say, between February and May, where I started applying for jobs. And I was going for everything, I was going for Civil Service roles, I was looking at the private sector, I looked across the board. I guess the makeup of my experience, it just didn't work and I remember I had two interviews. One where they had really good feedback, but nothing else to say. I was through an agency and she goes, "Yep, they really liked you." But then, I never heard anything back and another one where they said that I was really strong, but there was somebody who had more sector or industry experience.
Sharon Davis: So it was disheartening, but not because obviously I had the skill, but for one reason or another I wasn't the right makeup for an employed job. So I got to the point where I got really frustrated and I said to myself... So I knew of some people who had moved to the Dales and I said to myself, "I'm just going to see what happens and I might just go to the Dales, just for three months. When in my life do I not have any commitments and can just make a decision like this? I'll try it out and see what happens." I Googled work in Hawes which is in the middle of Wensleydale in the middle of nowhere-
Steve Folland: I was going to say, we should probably emphasize that Hawes is a place.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it really is. And when we say remote, I find that my friends who have since come to visit me... I say remote, but I guess if you've brought up in London, you have no frame of reference for what remote really means. But Hawes in particular, you have to travel in about 17 miles in any direction to get to the next big town. So it is quite remote. And randomly enough, online there was a hotel looking for waitresses and I called the guy up and he said, "When can you start?" And I was like, "Oh my God, no. I've got to follow through in what I said." And then, funnily enough, shortly after that I then got offered a role, a PR role, working for, I think it was Lambeth College. It was a college in South London and I'd be working directly with the CEO, really exciting stuff. But then I just thought, "You know what? Let's just have a break from the norm and do something different."So I took the Yorkshire Dales role and despite feeling like it was might be a summer's thing, I'm still here today.
Steve Folland: All right, this is amazing. So instead of taking the PR job in London doing what you've been doing since you didn't have to be there, you decide to go to... I don't want to say the middle of nowhere, I love the Yorkshire Dales, but relatively speaking so. And you took the waitressing job.
Sharon Davis: I did. Oh my gosh, what a baptism of fire that was. So the job in London was paid three and a half times more than the job in the Yorkshire Dales, but yeah. Leaving Wales, the cost of living for this time on this Dale is very low. And it was really difficult, I never did a waitressing stint and Uni or when I was younger and oh my gosh, it was really hard. I really struggled for the first few weeks, the hours were long, I was working for 45 hour weeks. And bear it in mind, I'm used to being my own boss and by this point, we're talking 2016... Yeah, for six years now I've largely been my own boss, so it was really difficult. But I think as I relaxed into it, I just met people from all over the world and actually it became interesting for a completely different reason. It was just fascinating.
Sharon Davis: And it was so far out of my experience. I went to university in Nottingham and then lived there for three more years, so I'm not the type of Londoner who hasn't left the M25. But equally this was so different from my experience and in a strange kind of way, yeah it was quite enjoyable. Yeah.
Steve Folland: I mean, that kind of move sounds like... That's a lifestyle choice. You mentioned lifestyle of freelancing, but that's a lifestyle choice to get out of the city to right in the middle of the countryside. And to do something which wasn't anything like you'd been doing, as well. So how did it move on from there? To me introducing you four years later as a PR consultant?
Sharon Davis: I know, yeah. It did move on. Again, it wasn't a straight forward journey, but I did that into the Autumn and actually had quite an interesting argument with the guy who runs it. So that ended. It's fine, we're friends now. And then it's winter, so bearing in mind the Hawes is a tourist town. So in the winter things, they really die. The contrast is just unbelievable. So I actually worked in the Wensleydale Creamery for six weeks and that took me until the end of the year.
Steve Folland: Making cheese? Sharon Davis: Yes. You have to call it an adventure, right? So they would move you around, like for me to the cheese-making department or you'd be doing packaging and labelling. And the contrast was massive because packaging and labelling was freezing, you're pretty much in this cold warehouse and it was December. And then the factory itself was boiling, it was really, really hot. So it was really interesting, that took me through to the end of the year. Again, met some lovely people. There's a really lovely Eastern European community and I made some really good friends with some of those people and also the locals, as well. It was just interesting.
Sharon Davis: But, in the back of my mind I am thinking. So at this point, I was 31, 32, I was 32. And I was thinking, "What am I doing with my life? What am I doing? Have I completely committed career suicide?" And then, a whole bit of personal story that probably isn't not for now. Me and my partner then, he moved up. He got a job here and then I decided to freelance. And then, from that point onwards things are quite normal again.
Steve Folland: Honestly this is going to make a great film, Sharon. So he moves up to join you in the Dales, you've convinced him you've hit it big in the cheese and then he gets a job and you go back into PR. So how? While you were working at the Creamery, were you looking for PR jobs?
Sharon Davis: So at this point, I still thought that I had killed my career and thought that maybe I was destined for a life in cheese. Who knew? And the thing is also to mention about here, and this quite a serious point, is that for young people the opportunities in areas like that, they're quite limited. So people either leave and go to Uni or don't come back or they come back and work in, say, a waitressing job or a factory job that... There just aren't many professional roles. So in that sense, for me, the future there looks bleak. But randomly, of all the jobs that could be applied for... So Tim, he got a job working for the National Park and that was actually a professional-grade job and that sort of set him off. So then I had to think about, "Well, I can either go back or am I going to stay?" It was a massive crossroads for me.
Sharon Davis: And incidentally, at that time, we're now into January 2017, two different people say... People that I know quite well, both approached me in January asking me to freelance for their companies and that sort of set me up really. So I think I knew that I was going to have to create my own way up there, it wasn't going to be that I was going to work for a really cool PR agency, for example.
Steve Folland: So the companies that approached you and offered you PR work, were they local in the Dales or were they from life previous?
Sharon Davis: A mixture. So in fact, I knew them both from life previous, but one I'd actually known here from university. And she was now sort of loosely in the area and she had a business in Thirsk which was about an hour and a bit from where I was living. So it was local, but I could still do a day from home if you like. And then the other one was down South completely, so it was completely separate. Again, obviously I could do it remotely. And that was a pure marketing role, actually, that one.
Steve Folland: Wow. By the way, just to say, I've got nothing against waitressing or working in factories.
Sharon Davis: Me neither.
Steve Folland: It's just surprising when you've been PR, PR, PR and I know on the other side of it there's PR, PR, PR. So I think it's lovely, actually, that you kind of, I don't know.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it was actually really humbling, as well. Because I think for me, none of us have anything against those sorts of roles, but we probably do have a perception of those types of roles. So then to be doing them and even just seeing people who'd made a career or a life long job out of it and how happy and content they were. I don't want to sound patronizing or anything like that, but for me, coming from the background I've come from. I come from a West African family and you're just told that you've got to do well. So seeing that was just completely outside of my experience, but also really humbling and I think I learned a lot. Not necessarily from a career point of view, but a lot of life skills that I think add to the richness of life's wonderful experience. So in that sense, it was a nice detour, but equally, I was glad to get back into what I knew back in 2017.
Steve Folland: So 2017 you go back into freelance PR, you're deciding to work in the Dales, but by this point compared to 2010 when you started out, of course remote work had become a far more common place.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly. And by this point, the whole freelance boom is well and truly underway. And it's funny because sometimes I look back and I've always wanted to be a freelancer/businesswoman. It was always part of what I wanted to do, it wasn't something I fell into. And then so to see it become a boom, I sometimes found that a bit strange. Having said that, going back into it 2017 I was a very different PR or freelancer to what I was in 2010. And I would say the way I describe the last four years I've been up North is, I love the North for all the opportunities that there are, it feels like there's a bit of uncharted territory, but I love that I've also had some experience which enables me to make more of the situation, as well rather than sort of learn as I go along.
Steve Folland: So how has it been different then? How did you grow your business again PR wise this time in a new place?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so round two. It was a mixture really, so I guess when I took on those two roles. I wasn't clear that okay, this is us. We're here for the foreseeable future and this is now my business. I would say much of 2017 was sort of taking it a step at a time and seeing what happened. But then towards the end of 2017, I fell pregnant and then I decided that the thought of being a mom just stuck in the middle of nowhere just didn't fill me with much joy. So I decided to launch something called Dales Business Women just to meet like-minded women because, for me, to meet women who'd had some sort of similar experience to me so that I could grow through that, as well.
Sharon Davis: And, in fact, that has now grown and that's now a business in and of itself and feeds in quite nicely with my PR business because I get... It's through the women that I know in that business that I sometimes take on and they become clients in my PR business now. And I'm not back at that point again where I've just this year taken on a couple of staff and I'm glad to say it's been a lot better than it did back in whatever, 20 something, 2014. And yeah, that sort of strategic vision for communications and PR and helping businesses to gain some sort of wider reach is back. I feel like I'm doing it better than I have been before.
Steve Folland: That's so interesting, Dales Business Women. So what is that? Like a networking thing? How would you describe that?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I'd describe it as a networking. Yeah, it's a networking organization. When I first started, I just casually arranged a few events in the following year. And in fact, the first event was due to happen three weeks before I was due to have a baby. But because of the Beast from the East which happened that year, it then happened three weeks after I just had a baby.
Steve Folland: Oh my God, I should explain. The Beast from the East was a huge snowstorm which came in and would've cut off the area. So did you go looking for a networking event first?
Sharon Davis: No, that's the thing. I just decided that... So through the work at the hotel and the creamery... Because one of the things I've noticed about people up in the Yorkshire Dales is, while they do have... They might be working for a local pub, a hotel, that sort of thing, a lot of them... It's brilliant that they all have side hustles, they're all doing something on the side. So the more you got to know people, everyone was doing something on the side. So initially I launched it just for people maybe in Hawes, people that I'd met over the past year before that. But then actually it grew and I'd say businesses or people from Cumbria came, people from Northallerton which is an hour in the opposite direction and it grew much more quickly than I could've thought. And then I realized in 2018 that we had something there and that's when I incorporated it as its own company.
Steve Folland: Wow. How many people are involved in this? And how often do you meet?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so pre-Corona we had 24 events lined up for this year. We have 50 paying members, but then we also have another, I don't know, 25 or so who just come to the events casually. And actually when I was setting up Dales Business Women, a local counsellor who... I applied for some funding through a local council and a counsellor had to endorse it. And he said to me, "Look, if you get four people rock up to your event, you're doing really well. I'm not saying it to demoralize you, but you need to know that people here, they're hard-working, they're busy, they've got three or four jobs, you need to bear that in mind." Our first event we had nine people and then our second event, we had about 20 and the momentum has just grown from there. And so to have 50 members for me, feels like... It may not sound like much if you're in a city, but for around here, yeah. It's quite decent. So yeah, it's grown quite a bit in the last few years.
Steve Folland: That's awesome. And so, it sounds like its helped your business, as well because obviously you're meeting... Any business could use your services, I guess. Has it helped you as a person, as well?
Sharon Davis: So yeah, I think I mentioned. So once I had my baby, I'm just not the most mumsy mom, if you like. So mom groups just weren't going to cut it for me, it just wasn't really my thing and going to one group a week was my limit. But I have found that through the business network, I gained a whole community of friends. Even just from sort of a friendship in an emotional point of view, I've gained a lot through it from that. It pays for itself, it's not like it's... I think membership networks, it's not the most profitable business in the world, but it does pay for itself. But, yeah the big business benefit, as I said, is it's almost like a feeder into the PR because I do then get people on the training courses that I put on and also some people come on and do full-on PR projects with me, as well.
Steve Folland: Okay, something to pick up on there. You do training courses?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, gosh this was going to be my year for that, but it hasn't happened in the way that I thought. I was going to have three or four throughout the year and we're going to have one, maybe. But yeah, I guess one of the ways I decided to scratch the itch for wanting to help smaller businesses to do their own PR or understand the PR process. I think the most viable way for that is through training because it doesn't always work to do it as a campaign or as a retainer. So that's what I do with those sorts of businesses and I've done that one to one and hopefully, I'm hoping that these courses when we can eventually get them going properly will be quite frequent, as well.
Steve Folland: I see, so a way to help them do their own PR. Sharon Davis: Yes, yeah.
Steve Folland: So how does your business look beyond that? I know for example, do you do a project for a certain amount of time or is it all retainers? If we were to look at what it's looked like the last couple of years.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, it's a real mix. I think retainers are by far my biggest... That's my model and that's how I get a lot of my work. But then I do get a lot of project work and short-term work. I had last year a couple of clients who took me on as a copywriter to rewrite all the copy on their website or if somebody's doing a launch event they might just take me on for say, three months. I think with PR I'm very much at the minimum project has to be three months because, as I'm sure you'll understand, results aren't instant. And so really make sure that you're getting value for money, you're doing it well. I do a minimum three-month commitment project. But then, other than that, it's mainly retainer and that generally is how this works for me.
Steve Folland: How do you deal with the process of that? As in, when do people pay you? We often hear the phrase retainer, but for people who don't do it... And it can work in lots of different ways, to be fair. How do you do with that?
Sharon Davis: Yeah. So up until this year, it was you pay on the first of every month ahead of that month, if that makes sense. And what I decided to do wasn't because I had... Back in 2018 when I had my daughter, although I was doing the networking while she was quite small, it was when she was six months I went back into PR properly. And I thought because I'm now so busy, I've got this networking group, I've got a small baby, I decided to use GoCardless. Their direct debit system and that was really helpful because, for some clients, they just signed up so that comes out on the first of every month automatically. Some didn't want to do that, but they still got billed at the first of the month. Some also didn't like that so we had to do a halfway house, where they paid half upfront and then paid after that, if that makes sense. But this year we have actually... Because I took on an office manager/finance person who works across both businesses. And we agreed that we would offer an up-front payment system in return for extra days and yeah. We just had a client pay up-front for their year's contract, which is quite nice.
Steve Folland: So they've paid a whole year up-front?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, because of the way their financial year is, they paid for nine months and then when the tax year comes back around then they'll pay for the remaining three months. But yeah, they pay for that nine months up-front which is good.
Steve Folland: That's cool. As an incentive they get bonus days.
Sharon Davis: Yes, exactly so that feels like... Because also, I guess where I do now have the office manager and I have a marketing intern, yeah. Having that cash flow is really important right now.
Steve Folland: Yes, so talk me through that. You have an office to manage, I presume?
Sharon Davis: So we all work from home. Even without COVID, we're working from home. So we have a loft bedroom/office where we work. And before COVID, Samantha the office manager, was working a day a week from this office and a day a week from home. But as it stands now, yeah. Everyone's at home, so it's a remote team, but they're employees.
Steve Folland: And they're all local so you can meet up?
Sharon Davis: Yeah, exactly. So we'll see how it goes.
Steve Folland: And how are you getting on then with... As you said, you've got an entrepreneurial side to you, it was obvious really early on for you wanted to be more than just yourself. How did you know when it was right to bring people on and what to get them to do and things like that?
Sharon Davis: So with Dales Business Women, I always had a VA because I couldn't do that and do the PR and look after a little one. And it got the point with the VA where she was really great, she was brilliant, but just was a bit counterproductive. So she was remote, I was having to send her all these voicemails and tell her what to do. It became a bit cumbersome if that makes sense. So towards the end of last year, I thought it's better just to take on somebody who can actually take ownership of that role. And I think that was it for me, it was a point at which I knew that ownership needed to be taken over some of the roles I was outsourcing. I had a marketing freelancer who did the odd bit of stuff for me, as well, And I think for me, it just got to the point towards the end of last year where it felt like I need people who are buying into the company and I can help them to grow and develop, too. And that's what we did at the beginning of this year. So far, so good, but we'll how it goes. 2020 isn't over yet.
Steve Folland: Who knows what's going to happen? God, it's almost like you've done it all at once. Because obviously starting a family, as well, but it's... How do you fit everything in? Was bringing people on because you couldn't do what they were doing or because you needed that time?
Sharon Davis: It's a really good question, actually because I've often thought about this. If I didn't have a small child, I may have done that thing where I try to do everything myself and be all things to all men. But actually, having a child has been good for me because it's forced me to look at my priorities, look at what only I can do or what makes the business the business, which is the skill that I bring, and then what can I outsource to people who do it better than me anyway. And the thing is, I'm an accountant's daughter. So my dad used to give me receipts to enter into spreadsheets. So I feel, and maybe I'm not the typical creative and I wouldn't necessarily call myself a creative, because I can do that sort of spreadsheet stuff, too. But that sometimes is a problem, when you think you can do it all.
Sharon Davis: Whereas having a child forced me to think, "Okay, it doesn't matter if I can do it, what do I do best?" So I think I brought them on because my time is limited and with the time that I do have, I want to make as much money as possible.
Steve Folland: And there's a thing in itself, as well. To make as much money as possible when you're bringing those people on, you then have to really think about your pricing.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, so we have restructured our pricing. I have a local price and a non-local price because, yeah... When you step into the Dales, the culture, everything changes. So yeah, I just think based on a nearly virtual agency, given that I do outsource stuff, I think that's been quite a challenge, trying to get the right rates. But I have increased it from what it was last year. But I have a rate that is different for people who stay within the Dales to those who aren't.
Steve Folland: Which is great, though because it means that you're really supporting that local community that you moved into.
Sharon Davis: Trying to, yeah. Really trying my hardest to find ways to do that, yeah. It goes a long way in small communities when you invest into the community, I find.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Actually I introduced you as a PR consultant and I guess... Is that because you... Instead of, as you mentioned when you had enough of it, you were always hitting the phones or whatever just trying to get media. Now you're more thinking about it strategically, but then hiring people to do the work... I don't want to say under you, but you know what I mean. So you're keeping the work in-house-
Sharon Davis: Yeah, totally. I think for me, with just where I'm at in life and everything, I really enjoy that sort of bigger picture, looking at the integrated combs, how it all fits together and I think, yeah. I'm now in a place where I can give a younger person the opportunities so they can also test their skill, but without having to do all that work. Because PR is great, but it is quite labour-intensive. So if I can pull back and just focus on the strategy, that's great. At present I still promote me as the business because that's what people are buying and that's why I still... At this stage, it might change even in a year's time, I would still say that I am a freelancer/PR consultant. So the way you explained it is very much my vision for the next few years.
Steve Folland: Yeah, so people work with Sharon Davis.
Sharon Davis: Well, in fact we do have... It is called Dales PR and Marketing, but ultimately it is still me and I'm in the process of setting up my Sharon A. Davis website which is going to focus more on me as... To me as a person, so a look at my PR skills, a look at some of my journalistic stuff and other things, too. So I'm really trying to maintain the brand Sharon Davis while growing something local for the community, as well. And beyond.
Steve Folland: That reminds me of when we had Ross Simmons on earlier this year.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, I listened to that.
Steve Folland: Yeah, so he had an agency, but he maintained his own personal brand of Ross Simmons bringing in the work to the agency. So you have Dales PR and Marketing, but you're deciding that actually you're going to also have a different website which is driving home you as the expert.
Sharon Davis: Yeah, certainly. I was on a PR talk the other day and I talk about how, the natural progression through the agency or your career, means by the time you get to PR director level, you're not really doing any PR anymore. I think while I obviously want to grow the business, I still am the... It's my journalistic background and the PR expertise that makes the business what it is. So I don't want to ever get too far away from that. And that's why I think having brand Sharon Davis while still having the company, as well. I think that's always going to be really important.
Steve Folland: It's been such a wonderful story, but I feel like I've not touched upon lots of different things. So let me just quickly check a few things off. How would you feel like your work-life balances today?
Sharon Davis: I think, oh gosh, it's a work in progress. I think on the whole, it's great, but I think in reality, it's a bit messier than great. So I always wanted to work part-time so I could be with my daughter a few days a week while working a few days a week. But more often than not, on the days that I'm not working, I'm either working early doors before the day starts or in the evening, as well. So yeah, it's hard. I say I'm trying to rectify that and I do for a bit and then things get busy and it changes. But on the whole, I do try and put boundaries in place so that it's not too chaotic.
Steve Folland: Now, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Sharon Davis: I would've told her to just enjoy the process a lot more and not to worry. I spent the first three years, three, four years of being a freelancer just riddled with worry and really concerned about me not doing enough for where I was at my age and all this stuff. And feeling really low on the inside. And I just wish I'd enjoyed it a lot more because actually, looking back, I was doing some good things. I made a lot of mistakes, but I was learning and it set me up for today.
Steve Folland: So good to talk to you, Sharon. All the best being freelance.
Sharon Davis: Thank you, thank you for inviting me.