When working for free makes sense - Photographer Alexandra Cameron
This episode is kindly supported by With Jack!
With Jack help keep you in business by supporting you financially or legally if you have problems with a client.
Get the freelance insurance you deserve.
Visit withjack.co.uk and be a confident freelancer.
When working for free makes sense - Freelance Photographer Alexandra Cameron
Alex studied film at university but soon found that the immediacy of photography suited her better. She worked part-time on the side for years while building up her skills and portfolio, often shooting for free or a small amount.
These days, with a strong portfolio including some famous faces, Alex says that she will still work for free sometimes because it pays later on. She chats to Steve about the different ways she’s made money, including from licensing her photos and selling prints.
While she’s definitely got better at negotiating her rates, Alex believes that you have to be in it because you’re passionate about taking good photos. For her, that means capturing portraits of people she admires and believes in.
Alex Cameron
“You'll get to the place you need to be if you stick with it. Worrying about it will only add stress to your life. Just enjoy the journey.”
Getting started and working for free
Many freelancers advise against working for free. For Alex, it’s been essential.
“I tell new photographers that it's a lot of non-paid work. It's a lot of stuff you're doing because you're passionate and because you want to take great photos. Because that's always the motivator for me.
“And to spread your work, to build your portfolio, to get better at what you do and learn new things. It's a lot of free. Even now, 30% of the shoots that I do, maybe more, are free."
Alex got started by shooting a lot and sharing her work online. When people started getting in touch, Alex did some shoots for free while building up her confidence.
“I always charged low because I didn't want many expectations on me. But it's one of those things that just built up from there. You know, more people might be asking so you charge a little bit more.
“The part-time jobs, at the beginning in particular, were necessary. Because even when photography jobs would trickle in, I wasn't charging much. But as the years go by it becomes more and more and you're able to base more of your income on it, I suppose.
“I want to be transparent. I go through busy periods but I'm not busy all the time. And I'm also fairly fortunate in my living situation — it doesn't cost me too much. That has definitely played in my favour.”
Reaching out to people via social media
Because she’s been willing and able to work for free, Alex has photographed famous faces including Russell Brand, Zoe Sugg and Dolly Alderton.
Alex shares examples in the podcast, telling stories of how she reached out to these people and developed a working relationship with them.
“It's like a careful balance between being an opportunist but not being too much of an opportunist. You know what I mean? And I don't know, I haven't always found the right balance. But yeah, sometimes it marries up.”
And while Alex’s celebrity shoots might not have brought in income directly, they can lead to regular income when a brand, book publisher or record label wants to buy the rights to use the images.
“Off the back of shooting with Dolly Alderton for free, many, many publishing companies have licensed the photos. Licensing photos is always like the most cheeky, fun way of earning money. Because you don’t have to move.”
Pricing and negotiating rates
When it comes to working with clients, Alex takes a different approach to pricing depending on whether she’s working with an individual or a brand.
“When you've shot Zoe Sugg or Gemma Styles, sometimes people think that you're charging thousands. Absolutely not. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable doing that just because of who I might have shot before.
“I'm available for hire. You know what I mean? I'm not going to close myself off. Because ultimately, I like shooting people and I like making people feel good about themselves.”
Alex says that it’s taken her a while to get comfortable with negotiating rates but — especially when she’s working with brands — it’s important to push for more.
“These people will cut you down every single time. Definitely aim higher. Because they'll cut you down. They will cut me down 15 to 25% every time I give a price to any company. Go back with a counteroffer. Try and go back and forth. Don't let them roll you over."
And the one thing Alex would tell her younger self?
“You're probably going to be in a part-time job for longer than you thought you might be. Building up to earn enough in the freelance world is hard.
It's hard but it's the best thing you'll ever do. One day you're just going to be there, at this place where you're earning money, and you won't be entirely sure how you got there.
Worrying about it will only add stress to your life. Just enjoy the journey.”
Listen to Alex’s freelance story now in the player above or via your favourite podcast app.
MORE FROM STEVE FOLLAND
Join us in the Being Freelance community
A place for freelancers from around the world to come together, chat, have fun and - importantly - support each other.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and freelance Photographer Alexandra Cameron
Transcription via Rev - try them for yourselves!
Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance.
Alexandra Cameron: Well I studied film at university and in my final year I picked up my first DSLR and just really loved it. Embarrassingly the reason I loved it most was because with film, you have an idea on film it takes weeks, month and years to create something. Whereas with a camera you can just do it right there and then. I loved the immediacy of it. Yeah, lazy old me loved it. So I kind of went with photography from there.
Alexandra Cameron: So the road to go to freelance was a bit longer and involved many a part time job. After I graduated I kind of just started building you my technical ability, I suppose, as a photographer. Initially had a full time job for six months and never went back. That's the only time I've ever had a full time job. As in like and office job, nine to five. And then after that I basically had part time jobs for, I really wish I knew the answer to this, I'm going to say years. Maybe seven years or eight years I had part time jobs. And then finally bit the bullet and dropped the part time jobs and went, I guess, full time freelancer. Which possibly was around three years ago.
Steve Folland: That first full time job, was that anything to do with photography? Or was it just-?
Alexandra Cameron: No. In fact none of my part time jobs have anything to do with photography. They generally, a bit of a mix but mostly admin and then I actually worked two, two and a half years at a children's nursery, which I adored. But, you know, photography is the number one so I had to let go of all the part time jobs just to be able, and yeah went full time.
Steve Folland: So even though you were sort of balancing it, like part time freelance part time jobs, in that period where were you getting your fist freelance clients? Where was the work coming from?
Alexandra Cameron: It's hard to look back and know exactly how it all progressed, I suppose. My first early jobs I think I just was shooting a lot. So I'd shoot a lot of self-portraits, I'd shoot friends, I'd experiment with things like that. And then a couple of people emailed and asked, "Oh would you take photos of me for this?" "Would you take photos of me for that?" I think I did some of those free at first. And then started realizing, okay well just charge a bit now. And it was not much, obviously. It was right at the beginning. I have a real thing with guilt and worry. So I always charged low because then I, you know, didn't want many expectations on me. But it's one of those things that just built up from there. You know, charging a little bit. More people might be asking, you should charge a little bit more. And gradually just more things come in.
Alexandra Cameron: Although I say more and more, it's not like. I want to be transparent that, you know, I go through busy periods but I'm not busy all the time. And I'm also fairly fortunate in my living situation. So it doesn't cost me too much either. So I'm definitely not one of those people that has a rammed lifestyle and a rammed, you know, job after job after job. That would freak me out anyway. But I have a few times that that's happened. But that's not really how it is for me.
Alexandra Cameron: So the part time jobs, in particular at the beginning, were necessary. Because even then when these jobs would trickle in, at the beginning I wasn't charging much. And it didn't happen too often. But you know as the years go by it becomes more and more, and you're able to base more of your income on it, I suppose.
Steve Folland: And how did people know that you were for hire in the first place?
Alexandra Cameron: I was fairly vocal online from the beginning. So one of the biggest reasons I got into photography was online photography sites like DeviantArt and Flickr. So you can kind of build a community out of there at first. And also people you know. So a lot of the early jobs might've been off the back of people I knew. For whatever reasons they might have wanted photos. I think I got quite lucky. You know, thinking back. There are a number of things that happened I think I got quite lucky with.
Alexandra Cameron: So I remember fairly early on I started working with a modelling agency. And that was off the back of, you know at the beginning when you're going through your experimenting with photos and stuff you kind of, there was a website called Model Mayhem. And you get in touch with models and make-up artists and stylists and hair stylists. And there were other photographers in there. Whole community. And you can hook up to take photos and do a photo shoot. So I did that a lot. And through that some of these girls were signed and I managed to start working in a modelling agency, for example. So that was an early regular job.
Alexandra Cameron: Other really random things that would happen. Like I sold a photo to Firefly Tonics, which is a drink that still sells in like Waitrose and stuff. They wanted one of my photos for their bottle. And this was all really off the back of sharing on places like Flickr. So, yeah, it's quite amazing thinking back given how active social media is now and how accessible everything is, that back then I even managed to get work through those mediums. Because really, Instagram is the main source of clientele nowadays. So yeah, it's quite bizarre to think back to that. Long time.
Steve Folland: And when you were doing those jobs with like models or stylists and so on, would those kind of like you were all doing it for free to build up your own portfolios, respective portfolios? Or?
Alexandra Cameron: Yes, 100%. And actually I'd say as a photographer, that's something that I will, is still true to this day. And I say to a lot of new photographers or people that are looking into getting into photography you are doing, it's a lot of free. It's a lot of non-paid work. It's a lot of stuff you're doing because you're passionate and because you want to take great photos. Because that's always the motivator for me. And to spread your work, to build your portfolio, to get better at what you do and learn new things. It's a lot of free. So I'd almost say even now, I don't know, 30% of the shoots that I do, maybe more, are free. But like no payment. It's and important part, though.
Steve Folland: How do you, like now, now you've been doing it a few years full time though, how do you know when to do it for free? Like draw the line or is there a certain thing which makes you...?
Alexandra Cameron: It was always really within my control. It tended to be my choice. But there was, I did have a period where I started to, it was actually almost accidental. But I kind of got into the world of bloggers and YouTubers and influencers. And there was while there where I was kind of just saying, "Yeah I'll shoot you." Or, "Yeah I'll shoot you." Because it might be good for my reach, if you like. But I think I learnt quite quickly that if I don't necessarily know these people, or they don't align with the kind of things that I believe in or who I am as a person. So I've gotten better now.
Alexandra Cameron: The things I do for free are because I really want to do them. And usually it's motivated by people I really want to meet and take their portrait. Because that's important to me. And I think actually that's probably where I want my work to go and my career to go. I want to photograph people I admire, who really have an influence on me. Who I think are genuine. People I believe what they put out there, I believe what they say. Much like anyone. If David Attenborough crossed my path, I'm going to, I want to meet him, I want to take his photo. Because I think he's quite a fascinating, impressive, wonderful human. As I think most people do. I've never met anyone who doesn't like David Attenborough. Right? He's the exception to the human rule. I think he's perfect. But anyway.
Alexandra Cameron: So that's the basis for it now. I approach people I want to shoot. And usually like a nice collaboration of that as well. It works in my favour as well, obviously. Because if someone is excited to shoot with me, which really always very nice when I get that reaction. But if someone is excited to shoot with me generally that will reflect when they do share those photos on social media. So it's not just them putting up a photo with a caption and then underneath a camera with my name next to it. It's, "I shot with Alex Cameron today and it was really nice." Or whatever. So it reflects in the outcome and in the other person. Like it's a two way street. If you do free, and you get to a point where you can definitely pick the ones that you feel passionate about.
Steve Folland: So three years ago you decide to go full time into freelancing. Was that like a light switch, you just went into it? Or was it something you built up to like knowing that you were going to do it on a certain date? Like what was that transition like?
Alexandra Cameron: The transition was that my dad sold our family home and we had to move. And everything was really stressful. And my time at the nursery was getting a little bit less fun. So it was more circumstantial. That I was like I think I'm done with this, I might see if I can do this without it for a while. And actually for a while when I'd been working at the children's nursery, I had been earning better and more frequent. So it was a decision that was financially viable, I suppose. And proved to be. Because obviously I never went back to doing a part time role.
Alexandra Cameron: But you know, again, it was about three or four years ago, something like that, the family home got sold and I moved with my dad. And then a year later my partner, this is a very unusual set of circumstances, by the way. My partner inherited a house that was attached to his parents'. And he spent the last three years doing it up. We moved in in April, during lockdown. But it did mean that he inherited it. He owns this house outright. So I live here without any mortgage, or rent, or anything like that. And before that, because we knew the house was going to happen fairly soon, I paid a bit of rent and lived with my dad. So in terms of like outgoings, it was less.
Alexandra Cameron: So I don't know how possible that is with many other people. So I'm really trying to be transparent about my circumstances. But right now I live in a house and I pay bills and I pay my food. And I pay a bit of rent to help with the cost of what it cost to do the house up. But I'm not paying large amounts for rent and mortgage. So I do think that that obviously, I mean definitely obviously, played in my favor for the privileged situation I was in. But I was earning enough that I didn't have to go back to part time role as well.
Steve Folland: And when you went full time freelance did the way you treated the work or got the work change?
Alexandra Cameron: That's interesting. I don't know if I've ever really thought about it. Yeah, I probably was more aware of filling up my week. Or filling up my calendar. Which was never full actually. But you know I was more conscious of upcoming work, let's say that. So I think three, four years ago when it coincided with going fully freelance was probably when I started doing more brand work as well. Working with brands. Because I'm not an influencer. I don't really do that kind of content on my Instagram or whatever. But because I had a slightly larger platform there, brands would see my work and then hire me to work on a number of things as well. So that, I kind of looked at it as getting one of those every quarter. And I felt on track. And I don't think I would have thought in that way before. So yeah, I definitely became more aware of what was coming in and what I, what felt comfortable coming in, I suppose.
Steve Folland: It sounds like your Instagram, like the size of your Instagram and who was following you was influential in getting that work. So how did you get to that point? Was it just accidental that your Instagram grew?
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah, so it's a funny one to talk about. Because I think a lot of people who might have a number of followers have a bit of imposter syndrome. So whenever I actually think about this it makes me feel like the biggest imposter. Because the answer is I do know and I don't know. So I do know that my Instagram started to amp up, if you like, probably about four years ago. Four or five. I started to kind of, again it was a bit of an accident but I started to get into the influencer, YouTuber, blogger area of the world. And I took photos, I was doing a series called The GIANT series where my partner Will would build giant props. And like we tried to get everything in shot. So there was little to no Photoshop or manipulation anyway. Which people like. There was nice lot of people that were very supportive of that and following that, which was really good.
Alexandra Cameron: And then, oh gosh, I'm going to get mixed up here. And then I was also, remember, shooting a friend of mine who I'd made through my sister. She was a bit, she had quite an online presence. And I shot a confidence shoot with her. Which at the time didn't have the name confidence shoot. I just did a naked shoot with her. But it ended up taking on this name of the confidence shoot. And she had enough, like quite a following that a lot of people then started booking in for confidence shoots. And then I did a confidence shoot with a blogger. So a blogger who also had a following. So that's probably how things started to amp up. Because these people with online presence, I was started to shoot with.
Alexandra Cameron: And then the biggest one that then followed, that really amped up my Instagram was shooting with Zoella, who is quite a big British YouTuber. And I took some photos of her for the GIANT series. And then got hired by a magazine around blogging to do an editorial with them of her as well. So I think the biggest push was working with Zoe Sugg. But I think in general- I do apologize if you're hearing groans in the background. My dog's sleeping and so is making noises. Just you know, in case you think it's me, it's the dog. Sorry, yeah. I think getting into that side of things and that world is what increased my followership on Instagram.
Alexandra Cameron: But with that being said, I'm still not sure why these people wanted to shoot with me. I'm not going to sit here thinking I'm the bee's knees. I don't think I am. Like I love what I do and I like to think that my photos are cool and some people like them. But I still don't, I'm still surprised to this day when I approach certain people and they're like, "I would love to shoot with you." That's still a shock for me. And those are the people that often are the ones with the big following. You know, that mean people find their way to my Instagram. Which means it grows. But it's still a shock to me. Like a total imposter syndrome.
Steve Folland: Wow. There's so many things in there. Including the fact, like going back to the start of that, sounded like you did a really great side project. Like a passionate project. Like The GIANT. So a massive giant, basically photos that looked like they must have been Photoshopped but weren't. Is doing side projects like still a key thing for you? Because that sounds like that was a big moment.
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah for sure. And in fact most of the things, in fact nearly everything I shoot now and get paid to shoot started off as me playing around or as a project. So The GIANT series was very much a personal project inspired by a photographer called Tim Walker who uses a lot of big props. And fortunately I had a very clever boyfriend who could build them for me. So that was great. But even the confidence shoots. That first shoot I did was my friend just emailed me and said, "I'm training to run a marathon and I've been working really hard. And I think maybe as a something to celebrate at the end of that it would be cool to do a confidence shoot." And I was like, "All right." Well a naked shoot. So that's how that came about. And then off the back of that, that's one of the biggest bookings I get is the confidence shoots.
Steve Folland: Isn't that funny. Like something that like you didn't start putting it out there as a service, it was just like somebody wanted it. And now.
Alexandra Cameron: And then emails started coming in. So it was like, okay. And you know it feels quite blasé to talk about so simplistically like that. Oh a friend wanted me to and then people asked me. It's actually been very profound to me. Like it's been one of the best things I've done and do as part of the things that I offer. As part of my job, it's one of my favourite things. To help women with their confidence and to shoot women in that way. And help them find their confidence again. Like it's 100% the best. I don't want to diminish it to something that it was just like, "Yeah a mate said this and I ended up doing it." Like it was, it's a really important part of what I do not. I feel really passionate about it.
Alexandra Cameron: But in the same way the GIANT series was. Yeah, like a lot of these things start off as just, I just want to see if I can do this. Or I want to try that. And then it turns into something else. Including the portraits which I do, a lot of natural light portraiture. That was because I saw a photographer I loved and her portraits. And I thought, "I wonder if I could do that with natural light? It kind of looks like she's doing it with natural light."
Alexandra Cameron: So I played around on my own. And did with my friend as well. Like I have, my best friend who's also a blogger. But her name is Megs. We, over the years have shot a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot. She's my go to for experimentation. She's up for any of the photos. And we're a great duo with that. But yeah I'd rope her in and I tried this portraiture. Like portrait in the natural light kind of set up. And then now it's again, it's like another one of my absolutely regular books. I've been booked pretty flat out from August, well till lockdown anyway, with portrait shoots. And I've been fortunate enough to take some people that I really admire. Like take their portraits. And that's something that I did not do probably two and a half, three years ago. I didn't do it before. And now it's hugely a part of my repertoire, if you like.
Alexandra Cameron: So yeah, I would definitely say in terms of being a photographer, I don't know how much it would apply to other freelance jobs, but in terms of being a photographer, well you know, it would apply. But not specifically with this. You have to do things free. You have to experiment. You have to do it because you love it, I suppose. And then it will open up other doors.
Steve Folland: And speaking of doors it sounds like you were knocking on them when it came to working with influencers and what have you and that made a difference as well. When you were approaching people, was that like just via DM or messaging? Did you get to know them first? Like what was that like? And how did it feel? I don't know what, maybe they never said no. But what was the reaction like?
Alexandra Cameron: I've got some fun stories there. And again the kind of stories where I'm also like, "Is this life?" I can't believe my luck. Well Zoe is a good example of that actually. Because yes, I messaged her on Instagram. I knew she had started following me because she was following a friend of mine who'd I'd take photos of. So I assumed she started following me because she as like, "Oh these photos are nice." I guess. So I thought, okay I'll DM her and see if she wants to take some. And I did and she responded. And that's how those photos came about. So really that was kind of delving into that world that opened up. I don't know. My work was being spread so certain people were seeing it, which is very fortunate. So that's that one, that was Zoe.
Alexandra Cameron: However, there's been more fun ones. Like Russell Brand, for example. So Russell Brand he was tweeting. What was he tweeting about? His show. He was tweeting about a show he had in Cambridge. And I tweeted him and said, "I've seen you've got a show in Cambridge. Happens to be on my birthday. How about you let me take your photo, huh?" Or something like that. And then he responded, "Will it be hard?" And I responded back, "No. Does this mean yes?" And he was like speak to my tour manager or something like that. So that's literally how that came about.
Steve Folland: Love it.
Alexandra Cameron: But it's just so, the world of social media. This is why it's so fascinating. And so important for freelancers to kind of have a presence online, I guess. Because it's something you never, you never think you'll reach these people because they don't know you from Adam. But at the same time there's a platform that means that they might see, that you can reach them. And you might as well try. Because you know, I've done this as well. With so many other people that I haven't heard a wink from, can I add. You know what I mean? Like I have tweeted so many different people that I admire that I want to photograph. Including the David Attenboroughs. And I don't hear a thing from. But I've heard from a few. And it certainly motivates you to do it.
Alexandra Cameron: But it worked with Russell Brand. And that went on to pretty awesome things as well. But it worked with Russell Brand. It also worked with Edgar Wright who's the director of Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz. I tweeted him, "Hey, let me take your portrait." And he said, I think he started following me, so I DMed him saying, "I'm guessing that's a yes, then." And he was like, "Yeah, all right. Here's my number." So you know. It hasn't happened yet because he's a busy, busy guy in an awkward part of London. But I message him back and forth every now and again just to see if he wants to or if he's around to. So that's a random one. And obviously I studied film. So whenever there's like that involved it's quite fun.
Alexandra Cameron: Who else was there? Oh yeah. Davina McCall I managed to reach, again through Twitter I think that was. I tweeted and then she gave me her email. And we, you know, back and forth. It's amazing. You think none of it would ever happen and then someone responds and you're like, "Oh? Oh."
Steve Folland: That's so cool. How do you then monopolize. Monopolize?
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah I know what you mean.
Steve Folland: Or capitalize?
Alexandra Cameron: Capitalize.
Steve Folland: Capitalize, that was the word.
Alexandra Cameron: I think that not being too, you know, these are busy people. And they've, in my opinion, kind of like opened up a little door. What you don't want to do is turn up uninvited. You know, keep at them. These are their private numbers or their private emails. You don't want to do anything, like be over the top or be annoying. So I, and this is something I've learnt in later years. In earlier years, I'm very good at sending way too many emails about an opportunity. Like, "Hey is there anything happening with that?" "Do you think this is still going to happen?" Because I was so, you know you get worried about money or desperate you can send a lot of emails. Which I'm not shaming at all. I did that 100%. But I learnt, in these situations, bide your time. I guess is that advice.
Alexandra Cameron: But with Russell Brand, so I got in contact with his tour manager. She as very much like, "Okay yeah. There's an interval. If you turn up." You know he just stays out. "He comes out the front of the stage and you can chat to him and take his photo there. But we probably can't offer more than that." And I was like, "Oh I got the impression he was up for me actually having a moment and taking some photos of him." So I was a bit crushed. But I went along anyway. I guess I was a bit right. Because he actually, I kind of waved and said, "Oh Hi. I'm Alex the photographer." And he was like, "Oh yeah. You're that photographer. I love your work. Go backstage, I'll meet you back there." So I got to go backstage and then take photos of him there.
Alexandra Cameron: The next day I edited some and sent them over to his tour manager who I'm assuming forwarded them to Russell. Because Russell then directly emailed me and said, "Love the photos. Book cover?" Question mark. And I was like, what? I literally had two minutes backstage. And I'm not exaggerating. Two minutes backstage. And suddenly I might have a book, like Russell Brand's book cover. It didn't happen. Because it had to be cut out in a certain way. But it was still pretty massive. And now I was in a situation where I had Russell Brand's email, which was great.
Alexandra Cameron: So I think it was like a year later or something. Maybe more, maybe less. I can't, I'm terrible, my memory's terrible. Something like that where he was gearing up to do a Netflix special. And I directly emailed him and said, "Is there anything I could do to help with the Netflix special?" And he said, "Yeah, maybe." And then the next thing I know I got an email from Netflix directly hiring me to take photos on the night.
Steve Folland: Oh wow.
Alexandra Cameron: So that was huge and cool as hell. So that was the second time I took photos of him, in London. It was Netflix special. But that's just again, it just shows an example of the random stuff that can happen. And of course I still have, and I saw Russell again that night. And I think he knows roughly who I am now. And then again, he meets so many people. But I have his email address. But I don't know that I've emailed since. Like I don't want to be that person, like it's too much. Because I appreciate having done it. I'm proud of the photos. And if something comes up that I think I can help with I'll email again. But I think it's like a careful balance between being an opportunist not being too much of an opportunist. You know what I mean? And I don't know, I haven't always found the right balance. But yeah sometimes it marries up, where it becomes all right.
Steve Folland: So if you look at where you're at now and like where your income comes from, like the different revenue streams that you have. What do you have there that brings you income now?
Alexandra Cameron: The slices of pie. Well I have one slice, so a large part would be confidence shoots. But I say a large part. I haven't been able to shoot them in, you know.
Steve Folland: Okay, yeah, okay.
Alexandra Cameron: In like eight months.
Steve Folland: Beyond 2020, I guess let's say.
Alexandra Cameron: Well I bring it up only because I have been, I'm sure we'll get to that. But there's a lot happened in the summer which means I subsequently was booked solid with portrait shoots. But usually that wouldn't just be portrait shoots. I wouldn't have made money much just from that. In fact, confidence shoots were by far my most popular. So confidence shoots I have coming in with clients. I also have portrait shoots which is affectively kind of head shots kind of thing.
Alexandra Cameron: And then I do brand work which can be a mix of things. So with brands I have say, I've done panels and like events. I have worked with camera companies doing campaigns. Like taking photos and promoting them on Instagram. What else have I done? I've done jobs with Photoshop where I've made a tutorial. I've done events with Canon. So a mix of things. Either social media or events kind of thing. So that would be a larger slice as well.
Alexandra Cameron: I also do weddings. Not many. I love weddings but they really stress me out. So I do a few of those a year. And it's usually people I know because I much prefer it when I know people. Because people relax even more around me. And then what else do I do? I've never really made money from live band photography. But I do that for free and I love doing that. Because it's essentially a front row seat. A front row seat to a gig. But I have made money in the past. A band called The Staves, which I totally recommend if nobody, if you haven't heard of them they're great. I shot photos of them live and then they wanted one of the photos for their album cover. Their live album cover. So, I guess it's another example of when you do things for free it can end up creating income.
Alexandra Cameron: Another example of that, which was a big one for me this year, was I shot Dolly Alderton, who is an incredible writer. And I'd wanted to take her portrait so approached her. So it was going to be in a collaborative sense, I suppose. And some of those photos were licensed from her publishing company. And then once lockdown was over, we were able to shoot again. Specifically for her author shot. Which I, again, said I'd do for free. That was my personal thing, she offered to pay. But I was like, "No, no. I'll do it for free." One, because I love working with her. And two, because she'd already created some income for me. So I was happy to not charge her. And then, off the back of that, many, many publishing companies, Because she's just had a book come out, have licensed the photos. So licensing photos has been, it's always like the most cheeky, fun way of earning money. Because you don't move.
Alexandra Cameron: I've licensed photos for years, I have with EMI. Which is I think now owned by Sony. So that was a really odd opportunity that came to me quite early on as well. I think about seven years ago. No longer than that, eight years ago. I met a guy and we were just kind of friends. Actually I'm not even going to lie. We dated for a moment. And it didn't really work out. But he did remember I'm a photographer. And he worked at EMI and he messaged me one day saying, "Hey we need an album cover. Would you be interested in either shooting something or letting us know if you've got anything in your backlog." And I've worked with EMI since then. Like sometimes I'll do six covers a year. Sometimes it'll only be one. But I love them, working with them. And that's just licensing images for the most part. Or shooting, sometimes.
Steve Folland: For people who don't know the photography world, licensing images would mean?
Alexandra Cameron: It's essentially permission, I guess. It's almost like I give you permission to publish this in a book. Or I give you permission to put this on an album cover. So it's like yeah, it's like legal permission. So they pay you for that.
Steve Folland: But is it like a one off fee? Or do you get a...?
Alexandra Cameron: That can depend as well. Licensing and copyright is a minefield. Something that, you know, I've been doing this over 10 years and I still not completely on top of. But you can license something, so say, one of Dolly Alderton's author photos might be licensed by a publishing company. And I can say that they have the license for a year. So if they want to use it for more than a year, they'll have to come back to me and pay a further license.
Steve Folland: You stay on top of all of that yourself, do you? Or do you have someone help you?
Alexandra Cameron: No that's all me. But then, it's a tough one. Because I've definitely had jobs where there's a clear understanding of you're paying for say, six edited photos. And I'm giving you permission to use it for these purposes. And then you see a year later that that client is uploading photos on their business website or their Instagram. Photos that they haven't paid for. So you do have to keep, you kind of have to keep up with it a bit. I've probably missed a lot.
Alexandra Cameron: But yeah, I'm the only one, it's only me. I have these things all written down. I try make sure they're pretty iron clad. So that if they go beyond that, then legally I know that I'm covered to be able to pursue it further. Call them out or say, "Actually, you shouldn't be using that." But I'm going to miss things. And there'll also be instances where I don't have the energy or the money to pursue something. Like I've definitely had people who had a license for a year, who had that photo up for a further year. And I only noticed that year later and emailed to say, "Excuse me, you had this photo up for a further year. Here is the invoice." And they'll say, "Oh sorry, took it down. Didn't realize." Well, it's not how it works. But then again, if they call you out and say, "Okay, sue me then." It's like. No. Like it's not really worth it.
Steve Folland: Yeah, and how else, revenue wise? Because I notice you have your own print shop. Well two types of shop, which intrigued me actually, on your website.
Alexandra Cameron: So the print shop has actually been since lockdown because I've had no other streams of revenue. I was really shocked that over lockdown, a fair amount of people did come and buy prints. That was really, really lovely. I did not expect that. Especially because over lockdown was when I took photos of flowers for the first time, for example. And they've done really well on there. And that's just really heart warming because I photograph people.
Alexandra Cameron: I don't really photograph still life. So when I gave it a go I was happily surprised with the result. And it was just really nice to know that a lot of people really like them too. So that was really great. And then actually a month ago I got an email from the website that hosts the shop. So it's Society6 saying that Urban Outfitters US was interested in one of the photos and could I license them out to be able to sell them on Urban Outfitters.
Steve Folland: Wow.
Alexandra Cameron: But that to me, like by the way, I am getting a very low percentage. It's a photo that was just kind of never really doing much or going anywhere, so I'm happy to kind of see what happens with that. But it's still, it's another example of I'd never really had a print shop before. And I thought I might as well give it a go while I'm not really earning anything over lockdown. And it's lead to possibly, well in January, they said, hopefully. I suppose things can change. But at the moment it sounds like it's going to go live in January in Urban Outfitters US and be available there.
Alexandra Cameron: That to me . that's the kind of thing that is just so crazy. In the industry, I'd say the photography industry. But like a lot of freelancers. That's one of the most fun things about being a freelancer is that you just don't know where it could go. Like opportunities can come from anywhere. And sometimes not when you most need them. But still, it's fascinating. I went off at a tangent there. Oh yes. So that was my print shop. I also make presents. Which I think is what you mentioned.
Steve Folland: Yes. You sell Lightroom pre-sets. So Lightroom is like an Adobe piece of software for photography, right?
Alexandra Cameron: Yes, yeah. Mostly coluor editing. And I have bought many, many pre-sets over the years. So I thought I'd try create my own. Because I do create my own anyway. For the years of being on there and editing different photos. You know it's, really simplistically, I will be editing a photo then at the end I'll be like, "I love that edit. I'm going to save that because it might work on other photos." And that's essentially, boom, you've got a pre-set. I refine them of course and made them more accessible on more different photos. But yeah, that's been really fun.
Alexandra Cameron: And another one that like, they trickle in. So you think nobody really likes them. And then you realize you've sold a grand or two's worth. And you're like, oh maybe people do. I don't rely on that income to pay my bills but it's lovely to do it. And I actually do it more because it's nice to share that. That makes me sound selfless. Obviously I'm still earning money from it so that's kind of not true is it. But you know what I mean? It's not something I earn enough for to put that much effort. Like I probably put more effort in than comes out of it. But I'm still happy to do it because it's really fun to make them and really fun to see people use them. Does that make sense?
Steve Folland: Yeah. I love that as well. Because it's, that kind of stuff where you've created a preset for yourself and then you can make further income from it, is that sort of, like sometimes you don't even realize like the way you do something is going to be worth something to somebody else. It's not like an obvious part of being a photographer. But there it is as an extra revenue stream.
Alexandra Cameron: Yah. Especially when you do feel a little bit like you're not getting enough or you don't know if anybody's really going to be interested. Photography's a great one though. Because if you've got a handful of people that are interested, that's really what they, the parts they really are interested in. They want to know how you edit things. They want to know your set ups and how you managed to achieve things. And you feel like and imposter because you're just doing it. It's like oh, but it's, it doesn't feel like it's, nothing I do really feels like out of reach of anyone else. I've worked out what works best with natural light. And I'm not one of those people that's like shut up tight about it. I share it a lot. I share my set up. Like I do shoot, my portrait shoots out of a glorified shed. And it's not even a joke, I really do. To the point where I have to warn people as they're about to walk round the corner, "By the way, this is basically a shed." But it's okay because the light's really good.
Steve Folland: You work across a broad range of clientele, should we say, like different value points. God, I feel like punching myself for even saying that.
Alexandra Cameron: I know what you mean.
Steve Folland: Right.
Alexandra Cameron: How do I come up with pricing?
Steve Folland: Well yeah, basically. There's no strict guide thing to this, or maybe there is and I've missed the memo.
Alexandra Cameron: No. And actually I feel as in the dark with Instagram. Because sometimes I do get jobs come in that require me to price up for say posting an Instagram on my grid, posting stories. And I'm still like, huh? Like I can't work out pricing for that. I have no basis really. Fortunately I have friends that work directly in that way and in that industry so I can ask. But yeah, if I feel sympathetic to photographers that are starting out, it's the darkness you feel on how to price anything. And quite frankly I'm over 10 years in and I still feel a little bit like, huh?
Alexandra Cameron: I think I base it somewhere between what I'm comfortable with now. So I feel better established to be able to say no if it's not an amount that I think is like enough, I guess. But yeah, to differentiate like the, it's really weird to say average person without sounding really insulting. But the clients that want to book in for a portrait shoot.
Steve Folland: Like a normal consumer.
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah, exactly. So like I charge an amount for my time but I also think that is accessible. Because I'm not, it's a weird one. When you might have shot Zoe Sugg or Gemma Styles or sometimes people might think that you are charging thousands. Absolutely not. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable doing that just because of who I might have shot before. Does that make sense? I'm available for hire. You know what I mean? I'm not going to close myself off. Because ultimately I like shooting people and I like making people feel good about themselves. So with that in mind I will charge what is in the range of affordability.
Alexandra Cameron: But when it comes to brands, or publishing houses, or record labels or whatever, yeah, you charge more. And also not just that. But you push for more. Because these people will cut you down every single time. Unless you really set a low amount. And they're like, "Oh yeah, yeah. That's fine. Yeah we'll do that." Which has happened to me, I'm not going to lie. But you want to say, like this is probably for any freelancer out there, aim high. Definitely aim higher. Because they'll cut you down at least, I'd say at least 25%, it happens. Like they will cut me down 15 to 25% every time I give a price to any company. Like business or company.
Steve Folland: Okay, so think of a price and then add 25%. And then they'll knock 25% off and you'll go, "Hah, I got the price I wanted."
Alexandra Cameron: Yep, there you go. Well no, no, no. They'll knock 25% and you'll go back with a counter offer. Try and go back and forth. Don't let them roll you over. And that's really scary to do at the beginning. Because you're like, they're going to go away. And if at the beginning you feel like you kind of have to go, okay let's do it at your price. That's completely understandable too. Because at the beginning, you don't have as much freedom to be able to lose that income possibly. But you get good at knowing who's taking you for a ride and what you feel comfortable in, for sure. I have said, turned away thousands and thousands of pounds because it should have been multiple, more than that. And I've been like no. It's not worth it to me, I'm not having it.
Steve Folland: If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Alexandra Cameron: I don't know. The thing is I worry it's just going to sound a bit depressing. Because I'd probably prepare them for the fact that they're going to be at a part time job longer than they thought they might. And that building up in a freelance world to earn enough is hard. That sounds so depressing though, doesn't it? It's also the best thing you'll ever do, maybe. Just for a counteract of a bit of positivity.
Alexandra Cameron: But it's hard. The reason, the thing is I'm quite blunt with it. And it's quite depressing. But that's only because it's the same thing I promote when I talk about anything online. I just really am trying to be the most honest I can be. So that's not to say that the question I have to ask, because it's honest, has to be depressing. But it is one of the things that people, that I never really thought about when I went into trying to earn money from photography. But the truth is, it is really hard. And it takes a lot of building.
Alexandra Cameron: But ultimately it's hard to fully give advice. Because one day you're just going to be there, at this place where you're earning money. And you're not entirely sure how you got there. So I suppose, if anything then, ignore the one before. It should be, enjoy the journey. Because you'll get to the place you need to be if you stick with it. So worrying about it will only add stress to your life. Just enjoy the journey.
Steve Folland: Alex, thank you so much. It's been really great chatting with you. And all the best being freelance.
Alexandra Cameron: Thank you so much.
Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance.
Alexandra Cameron: Well I studied film at university and in my final year I picked up my first DSLR and just really loved it. Embarrassingly the reason I loved it most was because with film, you have an idea on film it takes weeks, month and years to create something. Whereas with a camera you can just do it right there and then. I loved the immediacy of it. Yeah, lazy old me loved it. So I kind of went with photography from there.
Alexandra Cameron: So the road to go to freelance was a bit longer and involved many a part time job. After I graduated I kind of just started building you my technical ability, I suppose, as a photographer. Initially had a full time job for six months and never went back. That's the only time I've ever had a full time job. As in like and office job, nine to five. And then after that I basically had part time jobs for, I really wish I knew the answer to this, I'm going to say years. Maybe seven years or eight years I had part time jobs. And then finally bit the bullet and dropped the part time jobs and went, I guess, full time freelancer. Which possibly was around three years ago.
Steve Folland: That first full time job, was that anything to do with photography? Or was it just-?
Alexandra Cameron: No. In fact none of my part time jobs have anything to do with photography. They generally, a bit of a mix but mostly admin and then I actually worked two, two and a half years at a children's nursery, which I adored. But, you know, photography is the number one so I had to let go of all the part time jobs just to be able, and yeah went full time.
Steve Folland: So even though you were sort of balancing it, like part time freelance part time jobs, in that period where were you getting your fist freelance clients? Where was the work coming from?
Alexandra Cameron: It's hard to look back and know exactly how it all progressed, I suppose. My first early jobs I think I just was shooting a lot. So I'd shoot a lot of self-portraits, I'd shoot friends, I'd experiment with things like that. And then a couple of people emailed and asked, "Oh would you take photos of me for this?" "Would you take photos of me for that?" I think I did some of those free at first. And then started realizing, okay well just charge a bit now. And it was not much, obviously. It was right at the beginning. I have a real thing with guilt and worry. So I always charged low because then I, you know, didn't want many expectations on me. But it's one of those things that just built up from there. You know, charging a little bit. More people might be asking, you should charge a little bit more. And gradually just more things come in.
Alexandra Cameron: Although I say more and more, it's not like. I want to be transparent that, you know, I go through busy periods but I'm not busy all the time. And I'm also fairly fortunate in my living situation. So it doesn't cost me too much either. So I'm definitely not one of those people that has a rammed lifestyle and a rammed, you know, job after job after job. That would freak me out anyway. But I have a few times that that's happened. But that's not really how it is for me.
Alexandra Cameron: So the part time jobs, in particular at the beginning, were necessary. Because even then when these jobs would trickle in, at the beginning I wasn't charging much. And it didn't happen too often. But you know as the years go by it becomes more and more, and you're able to base more of your income on it, I suppose.
Steve Folland: And how did people know that you were for hire in the first place?
Alexandra Cameron: I was fairly vocal online from the beginning. So one of the biggest reasons I got into photography was online photography sites like DeviantArt and Flickr. So you can kind of build a community out of there at first. And also people you know. So a lot of the early jobs might've been off the back of people I knew. For whatever reasons they might have wanted photos. I think I got quite lucky. You know, thinking back. There are a number of things that happened I think I got quite lucky with.
Alexandra Cameron: So I remember fairly early on I started working with a modelling agency. And that was off the back of, you know at the beginning when you're going through your experimenting with photos and stuff you kind of, there was a website called Model Mayhem. And you get in touch with models and make-up artists and stylists and hair stylists. And there were other photographers in there. Whole community. And you can hook up to take photos and do a photo shoot. So I did that a lot. And through that some of these girls were signed and I managed to start working in a modelling agency, for example. So that was an early regular job.
Alexandra Cameron: Other really random things that would happen. Like I sold a photo to Firefly Tonics, which is a drink that still sells in like Waitrose and stuff. They wanted one of my photos for their bottle. And this was all really off the back of sharing on places like Flickr. So, yeah, it's quite amazing thinking back given how active social media is now and how accessible everything is, that back then I even managed to get work through those mediums. Because really, Instagram is the main source of clientele nowadays. So yeah, it's quite bizarre to think back to that. Long time.
Steve Folland: And when you were doing those jobs with like models or stylists and so on, would those kind of like you were all doing it for free to build up your own portfolios, respective portfolios? Or?
Alexandra Cameron: Yes, 100%. And actually I'd say as a photographer, that's something that I will, is still true to this day. And I say to a lot of new photographers or people that are looking into getting into photography you are doing, it's a lot of free. It's a lot of non-paid work. It's a lot of stuff you're doing because you're passionate and because you want to take great photos. Because that's always the motivator for me. And to spread your work, to build your portfolio, to get better at what you do and learn new things. It's a lot of free. So I'd almost say even now, I don't know, 30% of the shoots that I do, maybe more, are free. But like no payment. It's and important part, though.
Steve Folland: How do you, like now, now you've been doing it a few years full time though, how do you know when to do it for free? Like draw the line or is there a certain thing which makes you...?
Alexandra Cameron: It was always really within my control. It tended to be my choice. But there was, I did have a period where I started to, it was actually almost accidental. But I kind of got into the world of bloggers and YouTubers and influencers. And there was while there where I was kind of just saying, "Yeah I'll shoot you." Or, "Yeah I'll shoot you." Because it might be good for my reach, if you like. But I think I learnt quite quickly that if I don't necessarily know these people, or they don't align with the kind of things that I believe in or who I am as a person. So I've gotten better now.
Alexandra Cameron: The things I do for free are because I really want to do them. And usually it's motivated by people I really want to meet and take their portrait. Because that's important to me. And I think actually that's probably where I want my work to go and my career to go. I want to photograph people I admire, who really have an influence on me. Who I think are genuine. People I believe what they put out there, I believe what they say. Much like anyone. If David Attenborough crossed my path, I'm going to, I want to meet him, I want to take his photo. Because I think he's quite a fascinating, impressive, wonderful human. As I think most people do. I've never met anyone who doesn't like David Attenborough. Right? He's the exception to the human rule. I think he's perfect. But anyway.
Alexandra Cameron: So that's the basis for it now. I approach people I want to shoot. And usually like a nice collaboration of that as well. It works in my favour as well, obviously. Because if someone is excited to shoot with me, which really always very nice when I get that reaction. But if someone is excited to shoot with me generally that will reflect when they do share those photos on social media. So it's not just them putting up a photo with a caption and then underneath a camera with my name next to it. It's, "I shot with Alex Cameron today and it was really nice." Or whatever. So it reflects in the outcome and in the other person. Like it's a two way street. If you do free, and you get to a point where you can definitely pick the ones that you feel passionate about.
Steve Folland: So three years ago you decide to go full time into freelancing. Was that like a light switch, you just went into it? Or was it something you built up to like knowing that you were going to do it on a certain date? Like what was that transition like?
Alexandra Cameron: The transition was that my dad sold our family home and we had to move. And everything was really stressful. And my time at the nursery was getting a little bit less fun. So it was more circumstantial. That I was like I think I'm done with this, I might see if I can do this without it for a while. And actually for a while when I'd been working at the children's nursery, I had been earning better and more frequent. So it was a decision that was financially viable, I suppose. And proved to be. Because obviously I never went back to doing a part time role.
Alexandra Cameron: But you know, again, it was about three or four years ago, something like that, the family home got sold and I moved with my dad. And then a year later my partner, this is a very unusual set of circumstances, by the way. My partner inherited a house that was attached to his parents'. And he spent the last three years doing it up. We moved in in April, during lockdown. But it did mean that he inherited it. He owns this house outright. So I live here without any mortgage, or rent, or anything like that. And before that, because we knew the house was going to happen fairly soon, I paid a bit of rent and lived with my dad. So in terms of like outgoings, it was less.
Alexandra Cameron: So I don't know how possible that is with many other people. So I'm really trying to be transparent about my circumstances. But right now I live in a house and I pay bills and I pay my food. And I pay a bit of rent to help with the cost of what it cost to do the house up. But I'm not paying large amounts for rent and mortgage. So I do think that that obviously, I mean definitely obviously, played in my favor for the privileged situation I was in. But I was earning enough that I didn't have to go back to part time role as well.
Steve Folland: And when you went full time freelance did the way you treated the work or got the work change?
Alexandra Cameron: That's interesting. I don't know if I've ever really thought about it. Yeah, I probably was more aware of filling up my week. Or filling up my calendar. Which was never full actually. But you know I was more conscious of upcoming work, let's say that. So I think three, four years ago when it coincided with going fully freelance was probably when I started doing more brand work as well. Working with brands. Because I'm not an influencer. I don't really do that kind of content on my Instagram or whatever. But because I had a slightly larger platform there, brands would see my work and then hire me to work on a number of things as well. So that, I kind of looked at it as getting one of those every quarter. And I felt on track. And I don't think I would have thought in that way before. So yeah, I definitely became more aware of what was coming in and what I, what felt comfortable coming in, I suppose.
Steve Folland: It sounds like your Instagram, like the size of your Instagram and who was following you was influential in getting that work. So how did you get to that point? Was it just accidental that your Instagram grew?
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah, so it's a funny one to talk about. Because I think a lot of people who might have a number of followers have a bit of imposter syndrome. So whenever I actually think about this it makes me feel like the biggest imposter. Because the answer is I do know and I don't know. So I do know that my Instagram started to amp up, if you like, probably about four years ago. Four or five. I started to kind of, again it was a bit of an accident but I started to get into the influencer, YouTuber, blogger area of the world. And I took photos, I was doing a series called The GIANT series where my partner Will would build giant props. And like we tried to get everything in shot. So there was little to no Photoshop or manipulation anyway. Which people like. There was nice lot of people that were very supportive of that and following that, which was really good.
Alexandra Cameron: And then, oh gosh, I'm going to get mixed up here. And then I was also, remember, shooting a friend of mine who I'd made through my sister. She was a bit, she had quite an online presence. And I shot a confidence shoot with her. Which at the time didn't have the name confidence shoot. I just did a naked shoot with her. But it ended up taking on this name of the confidence shoot. And she had enough, like quite a following that a lot of people then started booking in for confidence shoots. And then I did a confidence shoot with a blogger. So a blogger who also had a following. So that's probably how things started to amp up. Because these people with online presence, I was started to shoot with.
Alexandra Cameron: And then the biggest one that then followed, that really amped up my Instagram was shooting with Zoella, who is quite a big British YouTuber. And I took some photos of her for the GIANT series. And then got hired by a magazine around blogging to do an editorial with them of her as well. So I think the biggest push was working with Zoe Sugg. But I think in general- I do apologize if you're hearing groans in the background. My dog's sleeping and so is making noises. Just you know, in case you think it's me, it's the dog. Sorry, yeah. I think getting into that side of things and that world is what increased my followership on Instagram.
Alexandra Cameron: But with that being said, I'm still not sure why these people wanted to shoot with me. I'm not going to sit here thinking I'm the bee's knees. I don't think I am. Like I love what I do and I like to think that my photos are cool and some people like them. But I still don't, I'm still surprised to this day when I approach certain people and they're like, "I would love to shoot with you." That's still a shock for me. And those are the people that often are the ones with the big following. You know, that mean people find their way to my Instagram. Which means it grows. But it's still a shock to me. Like a total imposter syndrome.
Steve Folland: Wow. There's so many things in there. Including the fact, like going back to the start of that, sounded like you did a really great side project. Like a passionate project. Like The GIANT. So a massive giant, basically photos that looked like they must have been Photoshopped but weren't. Is doing side projects like still a key thing for you? Because that sounds like that was a big moment.
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah for sure. And in fact most of the things, in fact nearly everything I shoot now and get paid to shoot started off as me playing around or as a project. So The GIANT series was very much a personal project inspired by a photographer called Tim Walker who uses a lot of big props. And fortunately I had a very clever boyfriend who could build them for me. So that was great. But even the confidence shoots. That first shoot I did was my friend just emailed me and said, "I'm training to run a marathon and I've been working really hard. And I think maybe as a something to celebrate at the end of that it would be cool to do a confidence shoot." And I was like, "All right." Well a naked shoot. So that's how that came about. And then off the back of that, that's one of the biggest bookings I get is the confidence shoots.
Steve Folland: Isn't that funny. Like something that like you didn't start putting it out there as a service, it was just like somebody wanted it. And now.
Alexandra Cameron: And then emails started coming in. So it was like, okay. And you know it feels quite blasé to talk about so simplistically like that. Oh a friend wanted me to and then people asked me. It's actually been very profound to me. Like it's been one of the best things I've done and do as part of the things that I offer. As part of my job, it's one of my favourite things. To help women with their confidence and to shoot women in that way. And help them find their confidence again. Like it's 100% the best. I don't want to diminish it to something that it was just like, "Yeah a mate said this and I ended up doing it." Like it was, it's a really important part of what I do not. I feel really passionate about it.
Alexandra Cameron: But in the same way the GIANT series was. Yeah, like a lot of these things start off as just, I just want to see if I can do this. Or I want to try that. And then it turns into something else. Including the portraits which I do, a lot of natural light portraiture. That was because I saw a photographer I loved and her portraits. And I thought, "I wonder if I could do that with natural light? It kind of looks like she's doing it with natural light."
Alexandra Cameron: So I played around on my own. And did with my friend as well. Like I have, my best friend who's also a blogger. But her name is Megs. We, over the years have shot a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot. She's my go to for experimentation. She's up for any of the photos. And we're a great duo with that. But yeah I'd rope her in and I tried this portraiture. Like portrait in the natural light kind of set up. And then now it's again, it's like another one of my absolutely regular books. I've been booked pretty flat out from August, well till lockdown anyway, with portrait shoots. And I've been fortunate enough to take some people that I really admire. Like take their portraits. And that's something that I did not do probably two and a half, three years ago. I didn't do it before. And now it's hugely a part of my repertoire, if you like.
Alexandra Cameron: So yeah, I would definitely say in terms of being a photographer, I don't know how much it would apply to other freelance jobs, but in terms of being a photographer, well you know, it would apply. But not specifically with this. You have to do things free. You have to experiment. You have to do it because you love it, I suppose. And then it will open up other doors.
Steve Folland: And speaking of doors it sounds like you were knocking on them when it came to working with influencers and what have you and that made a difference as well. When you were approaching people, was that like just via DM or messaging? Did you get to know them first? Like what was that like? And how did it feel? I don't know what, maybe they never said no. But what was the reaction like?
Alexandra Cameron: I've got some fun stories there. And again the kind of stories where I'm also like, "Is this life?" I can't believe my luck. Well Zoe is a good example of that actually. Because yes, I messaged her on Instagram. I knew she had started following me because she was following a friend of mine who'd I'd take photos of. So I assumed she started following me because she as like, "Oh these photos are nice." I guess. So I thought, okay I'll DM her and see if she wants to take some. And I did and she responded. And that's how those photos came about. So really that was kind of delving into that world that opened up. I don't know. My work was being spread so certain people were seeing it, which is very fortunate. So that's that one, that was Zoe.
Alexandra Cameron: However, there's been more fun ones. Like Russell Brand, for example. So Russell Brand he was tweeting. What was he tweeting about? His show. He was tweeting about a show he had in Cambridge. And I tweeted him and said, "I've seen you've got a show in Cambridge. Happens to be on my birthday. How about you let me take your photo, huh?" Or something like that. And then he responded, "Will it be hard?" And I responded back, "No. Does this mean yes?" And he was like speak to my tour manager or something like that. So that's literally how that came about.
Steve Folland: Love it.
Alexandra Cameron: But it's just so, the world of social media. This is why it's so fascinating. And so important for freelancers to kind of have a presence online, I guess. Because it's something you never, you never think you'll reach these people because they don't know you from Adam. But at the same time there's a platform that means that they might see, that you can reach them. And you might as well try. Because you know, I've done this as well. With so many other people that I haven't heard a wink from, can I add. You know what I mean? Like I have tweeted so many different people that I admire that I want to photograph. Including the David Attenboroughs. And I don't hear a thing from. But I've heard from a few. And it certainly motivates you to do it.
Alexandra Cameron: But it worked with Russell Brand. And that went on to pretty awesome things as well. But it worked with Russell Brand. It also worked with Edgar Wright who's the director of Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz. I tweeted him, "Hey, let me take your portrait." And he said, I think he started following me, so I DMed him saying, "I'm guessing that's a yes, then." And he was like, "Yeah, all right. Here's my number." So you know. It hasn't happened yet because he's a busy, busy guy in an awkward part of London. But I message him back and forth every now and again just to see if he wants to or if he's around to. So that's a random one. And obviously I studied film. So whenever there's like that involved it's quite fun.
Alexandra Cameron: Who else was there? Oh yeah. Davina McCall I managed to reach, again through Twitter I think that was. I tweeted and then she gave me her email. And we, you know, back and forth. It's amazing. You think none of it would ever happen and then someone responds and you're like, "Oh? Oh."
Steve Folland: That's so cool. How do you then monopolize. Monopolize?
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah I know what you mean.
Steve Folland: Or capitalize?
Alexandra Cameron: Capitalize.
Steve Folland: Capitalize, that was the word.
Alexandra Cameron: I think that not being too, you know, these are busy people. And they've, in my opinion, kind of like opened up a little door. What you don't want to do is turn up uninvited. You know, keep at them. These are their private numbers or their private emails. You don't want to do anything, like be over the top or be annoying. So I, and this is something I've learnt in later years. In earlier years, I'm very good at sending way too many emails about an opportunity. Like, "Hey is there anything happening with that?" "Do you think this is still going to happen?" Because I was so, you know you get worried about money or desperate you can send a lot of emails. Which I'm not shaming at all. I did that 100%. But I learnt, in these situations, bide your time. I guess is that advice.
Alexandra Cameron: But with Russell Brand, so I got in contact with his tour manager. She as very much like, "Okay yeah. There's an interval. If you turn up." You know he just stays out. "He comes out the front of the stage and you can chat to him and take his photo there. But we probably can't offer more than that." And I was like, "Oh I got the impression he was up for me actually having a moment and taking some photos of him." So I was a bit crushed. But I went along anyway. I guess I was a bit right. Because he actually, I kind of waved and said, "Oh Hi. I'm Alex the photographer." And he was like, "Oh yeah. You're that photographer. I love your work. Go backstage, I'll meet you back there." So I got to go backstage and then take photos of him there.
Alexandra Cameron: The next day I edited some and sent them over to his tour manager who I'm assuming forwarded them to Russell. Because Russell then directly emailed me and said, "Love the photos. Book cover?" Question mark. And I was like, what? I literally had two minutes backstage. And I'm not exaggerating. Two minutes backstage. And suddenly I might have a book, like Russell Brand's book cover. It didn't happen. Because it had to be cut out in a certain way. But it was still pretty massive. And now I was in a situation where I had Russell Brand's email, which was great.
Alexandra Cameron: So I think it was like a year later or something. Maybe more, maybe less. I can't, I'm terrible, my memory's terrible. Something like that where he was gearing up to do a Netflix special. And I directly emailed him and said, "Is there anything I could do to help with the Netflix special?" And he said, "Yeah, maybe." And then the next thing I know I got an email from Netflix directly hiring me to take photos on the night.
Steve Folland: Oh wow.
Alexandra Cameron: So that was huge and cool as hell. So that was the second time I took photos of him, in London. It was Netflix special. But that's just again, it just shows an example of the random stuff that can happen. And of course I still have, and I saw Russell again that night. And I think he knows roughly who I am now. And then again, he meets so many people. But I have his email address. But I don't know that I've emailed since. Like I don't want to be that person, like it's too much. Because I appreciate having done it. I'm proud of the photos. And if something comes up that I think I can help with I'll email again. But I think it's like a careful balance between being an opportunist not being too much of an opportunist. You know what I mean? And I don't know, I haven't always found the right balance. But yeah sometimes it marries up, where it becomes all right.
Steve Folland: So if you look at where you're at now and like where your income comes from, like the different revenue streams that you have. What do you have there that brings you income now?
Alexandra Cameron: The slices of pie. Well I have one slice, so a large part would be confidence shoots. But I say a large part. I haven't been able to shoot them in, you know.
Steve Folland: Okay, yeah, okay.
Alexandra Cameron: In like eight months.
Steve Folland: Beyond 2020, I guess let's say.
Alexandra Cameron: Well I bring it up only because I have been, I'm sure we'll get to that. But there's a lot happened in the summer which means I subsequently was booked solid with portrait shoots. But usually that wouldn't just be portrait shoots. I wouldn't have made money much just from that. In fact, confidence shoots were by far my most popular. So confidence shoots I have coming in with clients. I also have portrait shoots which is affectively kind of head shots kind of thing.
Alexandra Cameron: And then I do brand work which can be a mix of things. So with brands I have say, I've done panels and like events. I have worked with camera companies doing campaigns. Like taking photos and promoting them on Instagram. What else have I done? I've done jobs with Photoshop where I've made a tutorial. I've done events with Canon. So a mix of things. Either social media or events kind of thing. So that would be a larger slice as well.
Alexandra Cameron: I also do weddings. Not many. I love weddings but they really stress me out. So I do a few of those a year. And it's usually people I know because I much prefer it when I know people. Because people relax even more around me. And then what else do I do? I've never really made money from live band photography. But I do that for free and I love doing that. Because it's essentially a front row seat. A front row seat to a gig. But I have made money in the past. A band called The Staves, which I totally recommend if nobody, if you haven't heard of them they're great. I shot photos of them live and then they wanted one of the photos for their album cover. Their live album cover. So, I guess it's another example of when you do things for free it can end up creating income.
Alexandra Cameron: Another example of that, which was a big one for me this year, was I shot Dolly Alderton, who is an incredible writer. And I'd wanted to take her portrait so approached her. So it was going to be in a collaborative sense, I suppose. And some of those photos were licensed from her publishing company. And then once lockdown was over, we were able to shoot again. Specifically for her author shot. Which I, again, said I'd do for free. That was my personal thing, she offered to pay. But I was like, "No, no. I'll do it for free." One, because I love working with her. And two, because she'd already created some income for me. So I was happy to not charge her. And then, off the back of that, many, many publishing companies, Because she's just had a book come out, have licensed the photos. So licensing photos has been, it's always like the most cheeky, fun way of earning money. Because you don't move.
Alexandra Cameron: I've licensed photos for years, I have with EMI. Which is I think now owned by Sony. So that was a really odd opportunity that came to me quite early on as well. I think about seven years ago. No longer than that, eight years ago. I met a guy and we were just kind of friends. Actually I'm not even going to lie. We dated for a moment. And it didn't really work out. But he did remember I'm a photographer. And he worked at EMI and he messaged me one day saying, "Hey we need an album cover. Would you be interested in either shooting something or letting us know if you've got anything in your backlog." And I've worked with EMI since then. Like sometimes I'll do six covers a year. Sometimes it'll only be one. But I love them, working with them. And that's just licensing images for the most part. Or shooting, sometimes.
Steve Folland: For people who don't know the photography world, licensing images would mean?
Alexandra Cameron: It's essentially permission, I guess. It's almost like I give you permission to publish this in a book. Or I give you permission to put this on an album cover. So it's like yeah, it's like legal permission. So they pay you for that.
Steve Folland: But is it like a one off fee? Or do you get a...?
Alexandra Cameron: That can depend as well. Licensing and copyright is a minefield. Something that, you know, I've been doing this over 10 years and I still not completely on top of. But you can license something, so say, one of Dolly Alderton's author photos might be licensed by a publishing company. And I can say that they have the license for a year. So if they want to use it for more than a year, they'll have to come back to me and pay a further license.
Steve Folland: You stay on top of all of that yourself, do you? Or do you have someone help you?
Alexandra Cameron: No that's all me. But then, it's a tough one. Because I've definitely had jobs where there's a clear understanding of you're paying for say, six edited photos. And I'm giving you permission to use it for these purposes. And then you see a year later that that client is uploading photos on their business website or their Instagram. Photos that they haven't paid for. So you do have to keep, you kind of have to keep up with it a bit. I've probably missed a lot.
Alexandra Cameron: But yeah, I'm the only one, it's only me. I have these things all written down. I try make sure they're pretty iron clad. So that if they go beyond that, then legally I know that I'm covered to be able to pursue it further. Call them out or say, "Actually, you shouldn't be using that." But I'm going to miss things. And there'll also be instances where I don't have the energy or the money to pursue something. Like I've definitely had people who had a license for a year, who had that photo up for a further year. And I only noticed that year later and emailed to say, "Excuse me, you had this photo up for a further year. Here is the invoice." And they'll say, "Oh sorry, took it down. Didn't realize." Well, it's not how it works. But then again, if they call you out and say, "Okay, sue me then." It's like. No. Like it's not really worth it.
Steve Folland: Yeah, and how else, revenue wise? Because I notice you have your own print shop. Well two types of shop, which intrigued me actually, on your website.
Alexandra Cameron: So the print shop has actually been since lockdown because I've had no other streams of revenue. I was really shocked that over lockdown, a fair amount of people did come and buy prints. That was really, really lovely. I did not expect that. Especially because over lockdown was when I took photos of flowers for the first time, for example. And they've done really well on there. And that's just really heart warming because I photograph people.
Alexandra Cameron: I don't really photograph still life. So when I gave it a go I was happily surprised with the result. And it was just really nice to know that a lot of people really like them too. So that was really great. And then actually a month ago I got an email from the website that hosts the shop. So it's Society6 saying that Urban Outfitters US was interested in one of the photos and could I license them out to be able to sell them on Urban Outfitters.
Steve Folland: Wow.
Alexandra Cameron: But that to me, like by the way, I am getting a very low percentage. It's a photo that was just kind of never really doing much or going anywhere, so I'm happy to kind of see what happens with that. But it's still, it's another example of I'd never really had a print shop before. And I thought I might as well give it a go while I'm not really earning anything over lockdown. And it's lead to possibly, well in January, they said, hopefully. I suppose things can change. But at the moment it sounds like it's going to go live in January in Urban Outfitters US and be available there.
Alexandra Cameron: That to me . that's the kind of thing that is just so crazy. In the industry, I'd say the photography industry. But like a lot of freelancers. That's one of the most fun things about being a freelancer is that you just don't know where it could go. Like opportunities can come from anywhere. And sometimes not when you most need them. But still, it's fascinating. I went off at a tangent there. Oh yes. So that was my print shop. I also make presents. Which I think is what you mentioned.
Steve Folland: Yes. You sell Lightroom pre-sets. So Lightroom is like an Adobe piece of software for photography, right?
Alexandra Cameron: Yes, yeah. Mostly coluor editing. And I have bought many, many pre-sets over the years. So I thought I'd try create my own. Because I do create my own anyway. For the years of being on there and editing different photos. You know it's, really simplistically, I will be editing a photo then at the end I'll be like, "I love that edit. I'm going to save that because it might work on other photos." And that's essentially, boom, you've got a pre-set. I refine them of course and made them more accessible on more different photos. But yeah, that's been really fun.
Alexandra Cameron: And another one that like, they trickle in. So you think nobody really likes them. And then you realize you've sold a grand or two's worth. And you're like, oh maybe people do. I don't rely on that income to pay my bills but it's lovely to do it. And I actually do it more because it's nice to share that. That makes me sound selfless. Obviously I'm still earning money from it so that's kind of not true is it. But you know what I mean? It's not something I earn enough for to put that much effort. Like I probably put more effort in than comes out of it. But I'm still happy to do it because it's really fun to make them and really fun to see people use them. Does that make sense?
Steve Folland: Yeah. I love that as well. Because it's, that kind of stuff where you've created a preset for yourself and then you can make further income from it, is that sort of, like sometimes you don't even realize like the way you do something is going to be worth something to somebody else. It's not like an obvious part of being a photographer. But there it is as an extra revenue stream.
Alexandra Cameron: Yah. Especially when you do feel a little bit like you're not getting enough or you don't know if anybody's really going to be interested. Photography's a great one though. Because if you've got a handful of people that are interested, that's really what they, the parts they really are interested in. They want to know how you edit things. They want to know your set ups and how you managed to achieve things. And you feel like and imposter because you're just doing it. It's like oh, but it's, it doesn't feel like it's, nothing I do really feels like out of reach of anyone else. I've worked out what works best with natural light. And I'm not one of those people that's like shut up tight about it. I share it a lot. I share my set up. Like I do shoot, my portrait shoots out of a glorified shed. And it's not even a joke, I really do. To the point where I have to warn people as they're about to walk round the corner, "By the way, this is basically a shed." But it's okay because the light's really good.
Steve Folland: You work across a broad range of clientele, should we say, like different value points. God, I feel like punching myself for even saying that.
Alexandra Cameron: I know what you mean.
Steve Folland: Right.
Alexandra Cameron: How do I come up with pricing?
Steve Folland: Well yeah, basically. There's no strict guide thing to this, or maybe there is and I've missed the memo.
Alexandra Cameron: No. And actually I feel as in the dark with Instagram. Because sometimes I do get jobs come in that require me to price up for say posting an Instagram on my grid, posting stories. And I'm still like, huh? Like I can't work out pricing for that. I have no basis really. Fortunately I have friends that work directly in that way and in that industry so I can ask. But yeah, if I feel sympathetic to photographers that are starting out, it's the darkness you feel on how to price anything. And quite frankly I'm over 10 years in and I still feel a little bit like, huh?
Alexandra Cameron: I think I base it somewhere between what I'm comfortable with now. So I feel better established to be able to say no if it's not an amount that I think is like enough, I guess. But yeah, to differentiate like the, it's really weird to say average person without sounding really insulting. But the clients that want to book in for a portrait shoot.
Steve Folland: Like a normal consumer.
Alexandra Cameron: Yeah, exactly. So like I charge an amount for my time but I also think that is accessible. Because I'm not, it's a weird one. When you might have shot Zoe Sugg or Gemma Styles or sometimes people might think that you are charging thousands. Absolutely not. I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable doing that just because of who I might have shot before. Does that make sense? I'm available for hire. You know what I mean? I'm not going to close myself off. Because ultimately I like shooting people and I like making people feel good about themselves. So with that in mind I will charge what is in the range of affordability.
Alexandra Cameron: But when it comes to brands, or publishing houses, or record labels or whatever, yeah, you charge more. And also not just that. But you push for more. Because these people will cut you down every single time. Unless you really set a low amount. And they're like, "Oh yeah, yeah. That's fine. Yeah we'll do that." Which has happened to me, I'm not going to lie. But you want to say, like this is probably for any freelancer out there, aim high. Definitely aim higher. Because they'll cut you down at least, I'd say at least 25%, it happens. Like they will cut me down 15 to 25% every time I give a price to any company. Like business or company.
Steve Folland: Okay, so think of a price and then add 25%. And then they'll knock 25% off and you'll go, "Hah, I got the price I wanted."
Alexandra Cameron: Yep, there you go. Well no, no, no. They'll knock 25% and you'll go back with a counter offer. Try and go back and forth. Don't let them roll you over. And that's really scary to do at the beginning. Because you're like, they're going to go away. And if at the beginning you feel like you kind of have to go, okay let's do it at your price. That's completely understandable too. Because at the beginning, you don't have as much freedom to be able to lose that income possibly. But you get good at knowing who's taking you for a ride and what you feel comfortable in, for sure. I have said, turned away thousands and thousands of pounds because it should have been multiple, more than that. And I've been like no. It's not worth it to me, I'm not having it.
Steve Folland: If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Alexandra Cameron: I don't know. The thing is I worry it's just going to sound a bit depressing. Because I'd probably prepare them for the fact that they're going to be at a part time job longer than they thought they might. And that building up in a freelance world to earn enough is hard. That sounds so depressing though, doesn't it? It's also the best thing you'll ever do, maybe. Just for a counteract of a bit of positivity.
Alexandra Cameron: But it's hard. The reason, the thing is I'm quite blunt with it. And it's quite depressing. But that's only because it's the same thing I promote when I talk about anything online. I just really am trying to be the most honest I can be. So that's not to say that the question I have to ask, because it's honest, has to be depressing. But it is one of the things that people, that I never really thought about when I went into trying to earn money from photography. But the truth is, it is really hard. And it takes a lot of building.
Alexandra Cameron: But ultimately it's hard to fully give advice. Because one day you're just going to be there, at this place where you're earning money. And you're not entirely sure how you got there. So I suppose, if anything then, ignore the one before. It should be, enjoy the journey. Because you'll get to the place you need to be if you stick with it. So worrying about it will only add stress to your life. Just enjoy the journey.
Steve Folland: Alex, thank you so much. It's been really great chatting with you. And all the best being freelance.
Alexandra Cameron: Thank you so much.