Animation Director Dave Anderson
About this podcast episode…
ANIMATION DIRECTOR DAVE ANDERSON
How does a Welsh schoolboy recommended by a career advisor to become a tree surgeon end up illustrating and animating for some of the biggest media outlets across the globe?
Becoming a location independent freelancer, working from London, Lima in Peru, and Barcelona in Spain?
Getting known for creating funny content. With a range of satirical dog toys and creating animated videos for some of the worlds biggest podcasts including Joe Rogan and The Rest Is History?
Dave shares his thoughts on steering his career in the directions he desires.
The importance of meeting people, working in somewhere other than your home, and paying attention to what work you’d like to do and the work that’s no longer coming your way.
Available as a video podcast too - Watch Dave here on the site, on YouTube, or Spotify. Enjoy!
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from DAVE ANDERSON
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Steve’s course for new freelancers
The Doing It For The Kids podcast
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and animation director Dave Andseron
Steve Folland: Dave, as ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Dave Anderson: Freelance? No one will give me a job, Steve? No. Their... No. Because I went to art college and I was lucky enough to get a job as a, as a runner at a now sort of defunct animation studio, which kind of, it was only a couple of years, but it was a very kind of formative experience for me because it was a, it was a company that had like just a few members of staff, but everybody... it was kind of a studio in Central London that it was mainly all freelancers. So that was kind of the example set for me. So I think there's not been a lot of conscious decisions really about, that's just kind of followed the example really.
So I did that for a couple of years and then really got into animation when I, I did a master's. Yeah, I got that, a first job. It was off an ad agency and then it was just, it's been job to job ever, ever since really. I mean, I, I do often think it'd be quite nice if someone sort of said, oh, do you wanna work here full time?
But it really hasn't, it really honestly hasn't come up, Steve. So..
Steve Folland: No one's ever gone, Dave. Please don't go...
Dave Anderson: Don't go! No, exactly. So maybe, maybe I was like a, like a fruit fly. I've got a lifecycle. I...
Steve Folland: So, so to put it in perspective, how long has that been?
Dave Anderson: It was 2011. I sort of became a little company mainly working for clients in the UK. But because I've been very fortunate enough to sort of move around places as well. I mean, I'm, I, I, I met my wife in London, but she's Peruvian, so she took me to live in Lima for five years. So I, I'm astonished that it kind of worked out really, but I could still, it's still in the same working day as the UK so it's kind of, it kind of worked.
So I could wake up in the morning and then, you know, people have worked out what they want me to do, so I would just say I'd just do it overnight. So. So that it worked there. yeah, I've done some jobs for like people in , in Asia and that's like, they literally want it yesterday 'cause that's how the, that's how the time, time... times work.
So there's some locations that are easier than others. But, yeah. And then eventually we moved over here and then we've sort of relocated to Spain. So we've been here for the last sort of seven years now.
Steve Folland: So how were you getting those first freelance clients?
Dave Anderson: I, I'd hate to say it, it's like, a lot of like who you, who you know really.
I had a friend from college who was working in, in this advertising agency and they... she'd showed some of my sort of cartoon work. So I think the first job was doing corporate portraits for the whole, for the whole of the agency. And the good thing about that is that they let me actually sort of go in and work for a, for a year in a sort of freelance capacity.
So I was, had, I had sort of desk space in, in London at this ad place, they just let me come in and out like a kind of house cat. So, and, and because I was just. By virtue of just being there, other jobs came in. So, and it lasted about a year before the, the sort of jobs sort of stopped happening and everyone was wondering what an if I was doing there, and even I was wondering what I was doing there.
So, you know, you'd like to say I did it all myself, but it's a lot of luck and a lot of. You know, friends helping you out and things all along the, the way and you know, so..
Steve Folland: Yeah. But there's that thing of, you know, making the most of the people you know, and that I'm sure in that whole time you spent there, then you must have met more and more people.
Dave Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. If you work anywhere, there's people go off to other places and just as long as you're keeping in touch and you know, you gotta be nice, you know, go, go get along with people. That's one thing. And then if you're keeping, making work, you know, people see that you're busy and making things and you are active, then they'll, they'll think, oh, we've got this other thing coming along in, in our company, which you come, so it's, you sort of hop around and try and take all the opportunities and being open to everything.
Steve Folland: How do you stay top of mind though? How do you... keep, get that bit to work?
Dave Anderson: Because what you think, one thing, it's sort of like learn a, you know, an art school. You've got your own kind of practice, your own kind of ideas that you would make for free if you know you do, it's the kind of thing that you would do and not get paid for it really.
And I'm lucky, I'm fortunate enough that there's some, there's a sort of, Venn diagram really where I, my job is also that kind of thing. So I've always got, always got my own sort of projects and I steer things... I love, I love comedy making cartoon animations and funny stuff, that sort of thing lots of people find kind of, sort of appealing of course, 'cause it's funny, it's funny, you know, so, so... By making kind of the kind of work that I want to do to eventually get paid for, I can kind of be, you know, a little, maybe a little bit sort of devious and, In some, oh, is these people, this make, they make this particular kind of work, or they're interested in this thing or they lack this kind of, thing.
Then maybe they might like, like an animation or something like that. You know, we live in an age of, everybody wants sort of content, so I can kind of make sort of something that some, somebody might think, oh, can you make more of that for us? But that's, that's more of a broad, general, general kind of thing, isn't it?
Steve Folland: I'd love to hear more about that though. Yeah. So it's like a, a side project, but like a strategic side project where you're like...
Dave Anderson: I'd like to be working you,
You're trying to, I'm ... I would like to make more of, you know, more of this. And it seems to have been more successful than like CVs sending that out and hoping for something.
Or Indeed, a big thing is like show reels where you animators make a sort of compilation of everything they've done and they send it out and they go, please give us a, give us a job. Yeah. Artists are generally not, not very good at selling themselves, really. You know, and it's kind of basic sales technique as you approach someone and saying, you don't have this, but you, you need this kind kind of thing. So it's a kind of devious, it feels a bit devious, but a devious sort of strategy going like, incidentally I did this a lot with sort of podcasts and I, I know you've been doing this for a while and really early days of podcasting. I got very much into them 'cause animating is a very kind of solitary activity.
And they basically sort of kept me company really to start off with. But one thing I discovered at this was, the people doing podcasts were in incredibly... When it started out, incredibly accessible. I couldn't be... I couldn't believe it, where, you know, before I was used to kind of like sending things off to sort of production companies and things like that. Never getting a reply, you know, 'cause it gets, just gets lost that, I was getting in touch with podcasters and it was just like a, yeah getting in touch with, well, literally someone at home like.
But then also discovering that, you know, if I made some animated films from those podcasts that they were getting, the numbers were getting huge. You know, so it was like I was really onto something there, but it was getting seen and then other opportunities started coming out from, you know, again, these production companies. I was getting nothing from started to see these, this stuff. And, and I was, starting to do some work on sort of their own sort of documentaries or spoken word things themselves.
So it was a kind of like. It was a, it was a work that I wanted to do. Because it was te... you know, animating stories and things... Which one of the first jobs I did was a storyboard artist for, for, so like a production company needed an advert. They would do like a comic strip. And I was hired to do that and I learned a lot about direction and you know, just by doing that job for a few years and this kind of, these, these kind of films I made for podcasts incorporated a lot that I, what I learned from that.
So, yeah, so it was a job that I, you know, it was work that I loved making, but also I could see an opportunity that there was like, people would really like this kind of, you know, in inverted commas "content" for their, for their, for their shows, you know? Yeah.
Steve Folland: So how much time would that take though? Like, how, how would you see an opportunity work on it alongside paid work?
Dave Anderson: Yes. It would be, it would be, you know, animate animation sort of famously takes, takes time.
So it would be like on the go, something with no, like time pressure. I could sort of like, you know, see it from a distance, like on the, on the Savannah, I could see all this opportunity in the, I would sort of do a, you know, a little bit at the end of the day and con, you know...
It was one in one in particular kept me sort of busy during, you know, the covid lockdown. That was a, that was a good thing to do in that time was to make this film for free. But then, yeah, it was, it's, it was a way of opening up more opportunities, really better than kind of like. bothering people with, you know, here's my cv, here's, here's what I do. Yeah. What I've, yeah, you've got the basic sales, basic sales stuff.
You've gotta, you've gotta remind yourself of, I think from time to time.
Steve Folland: So you make one for, you know, a, let's say Podcast X and you said, yeah, if that exists, by the way, I'm not saying it's an actual, but it probably does... anyway, you send it to Hypothetical Podcast, which again, quite... not a bad name for podcast.
Yeah, yeah. And it is tailored to them, but would you also send it to other ones and say, Hey, look what I did for Hypothetical Podcasts?
Dave Anderson: Yeah. More recently... Yeah recently, because I would, I, I always think of kind of, yeah, I hope, I hope, the term 'failure to capitalise' is not on a, on a gravestone or something, because I would do it and I would go, oh, that went well, and then I'd sort of think, okay, what am I gonna do next?
So I've, I've recently, just in recent years, I've got a little group of them. So I have, Yeah, and, and, well, it's some, it's only something I've recent, thought of because, you know, podcasting has become a big, it's, you see the whole life cycle of it now, where there's big, big, companies now producing these, you know, the, the podcast going from like a very independent, just a microphone and their laptop to... to the huge companies now. So there's, yeah, I'm, so, I'm...
Going back to what we were talking before when I was getting in touch with production companies, I'm now sort of getting in touch with podcast production companies and doing exactly the same thing. But I'm just, I think I've got a nice little tailored sort of portfolio for them going, if you, you know, you, if you wanna make something like this, you know, then that you can, here's a, here's a product or something for you to look at.
Steve Folland: And where would you be sharing these things? How, how would you be visible online?
Dave Anderson: I've gotta say, I'm not really, as, as a sort of myself, as an individual, I don't... I'm not sort of mega on social, social media, and I've st I've still, still would love to know how people get sort of huge figures on it.
But, again, it's handy if you've got a friend who is big on social media who can push. Push these things. Help is always sort of needed on these things.
Steve Folland: So it's that's cool though. Yeah. So basically you're saying you don't have a massive social media following, but it Yeah. You don't necessarily need it.
Dave Anderson: I, I can imagine you could go mad thinking of like how many followers you have and, and those sort of figures and why am I not doing this and why did they change the algorithm and like not being seen anymore. There's that, that's stuff that's out of your control as well. But, right at the start, what's helped get, get my sort of animation business going is I did a lot of work with this, with a musician, Tom Rosenthal, who he was an like an independent, he didn't wanna be part of any record labels or something.
He could see the opportunities on online and so independently, we made a few videos of his songs and they really sort of caught on and, I dunno how he did it, but he managed to get. Lots and lots of views on things like YouTube and things. And he's, he's managed to make that work and I'd love to know how, but it was doing some videos for, for him, which really helped, helped sort of get things going, you know.
But this was about 2000 and... 11 or something, 2010, 2011. So he was really, really there at the beginning.
Steve Folland: Did you know what you were doing like business wise, pricing and things like that. It sounded like you started off surrounded by other freelancers, so maybe there was a gauge for it?
Dave Anderson: Yeah, there's a little bit of, it's, it's very difficult to gauge what kind of, you know, I suppose the word, the status, this, when you get approached this working out what the status of a, of a client is, and it's kind of, you try and work hard to get a figure out of them first to get an idea how much, how much budget they've got, especially on a, you know... Cause you can imagine, you know, like someone that wanted wanting like, a little film to, you know, for their wedding is not gonna have the same money as, you know, Coke coming to you for their advert.
You know, so it's kind of, it's a little bit maddening that sometimes and, and you can find yourself, you know, you're working really hard on a project that's got a very small budget and it's taking up all your time. And then once in a blue moon, you get something with a huge budget and, and you think, how does this all even out?
So I think financially I sort of look, take it as an annual that... I look at the whole thing financially as annually, really. And if it's, if it's working all right over the whole year, then that's, that's fine. But, there's a lot of variables, lots and lots of variables, but... there is like if someone says, how much does this cost?
And I've got like a basic figure, like per minute of animation, here's this figure. And you just sort of wait whether they become totally horrified by it and run away or they're, you know, or yeah, there's the danger is you think, you sort of, they go, oh, that's brilliant. That's fine. You're really cheap and you think, oh, hang on, I'm missing out of, that's probably something I'm missing out on here.
So I
Steve Folland: I suppose perhaps it's one of those things where you can offer a slightly, like, change the scope, like, oh, I can make a less intricate animation if your budget is less.
Dave Anderson: Yeah, there is, there is scope. Yeah. You can get to like a maddening level of detail. And I find, I find sometimes when I'm, you know, in the middle of an animation project, I'm doing frame by frame animation in my dreams.
Just, it's sort of, I'm stuck in, stuck in one of those boring dreams that you can't get out, you know, to like, so, like, yeah, so. Yeah, there's levels of intricacy and, and you can work it out so you can make something impressive without necessarily, you know, necessarily going into huge, sort of dazzling detail and, and things.
So it's, yeah, you, with planning, with planning at the beginning, you can kind of accommodate various sort of, various sort of budgets and time Yeah, time spans and things.
Steve Folland: How about the way you work? Do, do you, do you ever collaborate with other people or are you very much in your own..?
Dave Anderson: Well, recently, recently I've been doing, I did a little film for, for The Rest Is History podcast. It was all organized sort of by the, the, the, yeah, the production company. And they said, we've got another animator you can work with. So I, I looked at, I was sort of, I was starting to feel a little bit like I was in a, kind of doing the same thing again and again, and it was kind of. Bit rou routine and not working...
And just working on your own. You can kind... You need to freshen things up once in a while. So I sort, I took this as opportunity. I would do my bit of the job and the, the other animator, would, would sort of take on various bits I sent him and let's see what happens. And it was really kind of refreshing to sort of just, just for once, just sort of, let's, let's see what we come up with together, you know?
A, a a little bit. Like, you know, when they're, those kids, when they fold over, when they, they draw a bit of a head ahead of a figure and fold over the paper and then someone draws the body. It's a little bit like that. And that I found that really kind of refreshing. And by doing that, I'm like, I'm thinking, well, what, what, what, what can do next?
Or what can I do next? You know. Having gone through this kind of experience, so it's, yeah, it's important and, and also collaborating with people that, have got other skill sets, like, well, like for instance, me, me working with Tom on these music videos, he, his music, you know, his music, having never really thought about the sound on any of my films before him doing the music and the audio for it, bringing that together, it sort of more than the sum of its parts really, you know, as the old cliche goes.
Steve Folland: So you started off, it sounds like, going into client businesses in London, for example. Yeah. At some point you must have switched to a more remote way of working?
Dave Anderson: Yeah. A after this period of time at, at the ad agency, Yeah, well, yeah. So yeah, A friend of mine that worked at the, the previous animation company that was a runner with said, I've got a studio space. It's all freelancers work in this studio space. Would you like to sort of rent it out? And it's a good way to sort of, it's healthy to get out the house to go to work, you know?
So it was near, near my flat. So I worked there for, For a while. it's kind of, I think I was expecting it to be a sort of, we're all gonna collaborate together, but everyone was working on their independent stuff. So it was had a, it was kind of, it took a little, while to get sort of used to the, you know, working independent from everybody else.
But then... then this opportunity by, you know, I, my, my wife said, let's go, let's go try Peru for what, what was initially six months, but turned into five, five years of going over there.
Steve Folland: That's always the way, by the way, let, let's just decorate the hallway and before you know it, the whole house has been done.
Dave Anderson: Yeah, no, exactly. You know, the concern was there was. Keeping one working and making that work as well. So, but then, but then it, it's, it's now, definitely now no one is sort of tells you even to sort of pop in or something anymore. It can be to, it's totally, I mean, doing what we're doing, you know, talking on online, it's, you can make a, you can make a job happen without neccessarily, you know, not even having to go in for, go into the office for the initial kind of coffee and biscuits meeting anymore. It doesn't, which is a shame. It's a shame. It's totally remote to be honest.
Steve Folland: It's a shame we have to buy our own biscuits, I'm with you on that one. It's exactly,
Dave Anderson: You know, I was thinking about, you know, and sometimes it's nice if I had like a, if had a full-time job in an office, you know, there was things like you could steal the bin liners, you know, just take
Steve Folland: perks, you know, toilet rolls, all the perks. Toilet rolls. You miss stealing.
Dave Anderson: Well, they're in a, you know, they were in a stack, you know, they would miss one. And that, that keeps you, keeps you going at home? No, not really. I'm, I'm only, I'm only joking. But, but also, but also also working on your own as well, you're thinking.
Well, like if I had, you know, if I did work in that office, I'd probably have a pointless meeting right now at 9 30. So I'll just watch, another episode of Frasier or something like
Steve Folland: that. Point one on the agenda. How are we getting through so many bin liners?
Dave Anderson: well, no, that hasn't, I've got proof.
I've got my alibi. I've been freelance for 15 years, so,
Steve Folland: But I mean, I'm in, I am interested in that. Like how, how you found it, you know, like changing location, not just country like Yeah continents. Yeah. How have you found that? Because you've done it twice.
Dave Anderson: Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, workwise initially it was kind of like, you feel a bit like, well the Bowie song , you know, Major Tom kind of sometimes where it's like you do feel the remoteness. It was, it was... And especially like living in, in Lima, which is kind of a very, it can be a very sort of chaotic city. I would like, you know, at work I would put my headphones on and listen to like, you know, UK podcasts or some of the radio or something and I'd, I'd be in my head, I'd be in the UK and then the earphones off and all the Peruvian traffic and, and.
You know, the whole of Peru outside. It was kind of, oh my God, I forgot,
Steve Folland: I
Dave Anderson: forgot I'm here.
Steve Folland: So, so did you go and find another studio or cowork space or something?
Dave Anderson: Yeah, initially I'd, well, yeah, I was set up off office at home, but then I, again, again, it's like you can, being at home all the time. Yeah. I met, met some people who worked for, in, in Lima, worked for a travel agent and they said they've got a spare desk.
So I was living, I had a little desk in a travel agents to do luxury cruises down the Amazon. So I, I, but I sort of absorbed by osmosis how the, how the travel industry works really. So, so it, it's, it's good to have that sort of separation from home, home and home and work. I think it's not so much that you're constantly at home, you're constantly at work really, that's, that's kind of the feeling, if you know what I mean. Mm-hmm. You know that when you, when you finish the day, you know your desk is sort of there as a presence really. So I think, yeah.
Steve Folland: So in Lima, did you get to know other freelancers or were you just big in the travel agency? Travel agency?
Dave Anderson: I met people at the travel agents.... I did when I was there, I did, I, I, I, I, I sort. Yeah, I, I, I'm doing it now, now we're living in, in Barcelona, sort of getting in touch with local co you know, local companies, you know, design companies and, yeah, agencies. And, yeah, I was given like some, a couple of opportunities in Lima and I worked in this design company for a, for a few months, making a little promotional video for them.
And it was amazing place 'cause it was this big, big house and it had a swimming pool in the middle of it.. And I was like, this is this, I'm working by a swimming pool. I never done this before, but it's...
The work from the UK was becoming more, you know, more and more regular. And I, I, I, I, I sort of put it down to kind of the kind of work that I make, which is kind of, it's very sort of British humour, kind of, it's, it's centered on that really.
So it's got bigger, I think it's got bigger appeal in the UK than abroad. So I've kind of focused on that more. The other thing is, is it's generally nice to sort of get in touch with people locally. 'cause it makes you feel more at home in the place that you live. So, it was more, I, it started to become getting in touch with other, you know, art artists and freelancers was more, it becomes more sort of social rather than, rather than anything to do with the work that you're doing, which takes a bit of pressure off, but it's nice to go, you know, here, it's nice to go and meet, you know, meet someone and say, chat about business and shop for a, for a little while with no pressure of like, can I have a job, please? You know, that kind of thing.
Steve Folland: So, yeah. So you do do that in, in Barcelona, you've. You've met...
Dave Anderson: Yeah, there's a awful lot going on here. But Barcelona is kind of like a small city as well, you know, so it's, it's a lot of, you know, the big, big companies that would sort of commission work that I would want to make. They, they're, they're, they're not really here, but it's very artsy and it's got lots of, you know, there's, if you wanna make stuff, there's lots of print studios and, you know, there's, there's a lot, there's a, there's a nice sort of atmosphere here. For that, so, yeah.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Because obviously I've introduced you as an animation director, but you are an illustrator. You've, yeah. Revenue stream wise, is it all client work or have you created your own stuff?
Dave Anderson: I have in the past sort of sold prints, but I've never sort of... I've never had taken the attitude that's gonna be my.. a sort of a real source of income. It's nice when you sell something from time to time, but I've generally focused on animation as, as sort of a way of paying, paying the bills. But yeah, doing a, illustrations, you know, on the side for fun. And if there's like a, a occasional offers to be in an exhibition and make some work for that.
It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's good to have something not to that's not a stress or a concern, a sort of, I've, I've sort of known people that do creative stuff just, just for the sake of it, and it's kind of like they don't wanna make it part of their day job. Yes. You know, because it's, it's a bit, it's, it's, they'll do it anyway even if it's, if it's not their work.
Steve Folland: Because didn't alert, didn't some of your illustrations end up on dog toys or have I made up?
Dave Anderson: Oh, dog toys, yes. Yeah. No, I've got the line of dog toys. Satirical Pet Hates Toys. That's it, it's been going for a few years now. But again, it was, it's, it's a friend of a, it's a friend of a friend's got in touch and saying, I've got this idea to make satirical dog toys.
And she, she was, a, a, a comedy TV producer. So it was, it made, it totally made it happen. And that's a, that's a key thing is, I, I get, you know, approached lots of ideas. 'I've got this kid's book idea I wanna make'. But unless you've got the person that's actually gonna do the sort of, you know, the admin for it and really make it happen, you know.
Fortunately she did and then she got it in Scribbler stores. And so, you know, we got like all, all of your favorites, Boris, and you know, Trump. Trump's having a having an uptick I'm sure. And these, the sales of here them, so yeah, it's Pet Hates Toys, that's the plug.
Steve Folland: Oh, amazing. No. Amazing. But it made me like... When you are working the way you do, like, is there a limited amount of, your own time? You know, like you have to work on this thing, right? It's your skills that you are putting into it. So how do you decide what to work on? Do you have multiple things on the go at once? Like, how's that for you?
Dave Anderson: Yeah, it's... There's sort of how you deal emo emotionally and psychologically when there's, when there's when busier times and not so busy times. And I sort of came to the conclusion that the not so busy times are, are more stressful than the busy type, you know? 'cause that's actually, that's real, that's something tangible stress rather than the kind of the not knowing when you're in a, in a lean spell for work.
But, this is the thing, the up the upsides of... of being freelancer is that I'm, you're free to manage your own time and there's a certain kind of, at a certain level of assertiveness that you've got to sort of say, listen, this is gonna take this long and you'll have it on this particular day because, and just long as you're clear and everything that I'm gonna, it's gonna take me this long to plan and, and illustrate and things that you can, yeah, the whole lifestyle is lots of paradoxes, I think, if that's the right word, Steve. You, you feel outta control sometimes when you don't know where the work is coming from, but you're also in control of the clients and you can steer your career into directions that you want and you know, you might earn no money, but then there's no one telling you how much money you can, you can make as well on the flip side of that as well. So it's kind of, yeah, lots of room for a positive mental attitude I think.
But there are kind of, sort of rules that you can set yourself that if you've got... you can't do two animation projects at the same time because they take a lot. It's very difficult to do that because it takes a, it's a very long and involved project, and if you've got two of them, there just isn't enough time in the day to do a decent job on either of them. Yeah. So it's you've got, yeah, there's certain boundaries I think they call it, isn't it?
Yeah. They...
Steve Folland: so then how do you make, because there must be a point where maybe somebody is looking at something and giving you feedback or you, you are off to the beach that day. Is that planned?
Dave Anderson: Yeah. A for your days, for your days off, you definitely do like a runup. If you wanna have a holiday, you've got a sort of ring fence days and stuff just for your own, you know, and domestic, you know, domestic happiness as well. You know, you can't just say, oh, we were gonna have the day off today and go to the beach, but, no, I'm gonna do, so, yeah, with planning, you can manage things. I, I, I hope, but, so things don't become so chaotic and you are changing plans on people and, and, and, yeah.
That kind of thing, but, I gotta, I'm just reflecting on it. I, maybe I'm not very, very good at them. I'm preaching this, but I'm just scanning... but sometimes it can be, it can be chaotic sometimes, you know? Yeah.
Steve Folland: What have you found the most challenging thing about being freelance?
Dave Anderson: There's a lovely moment after a big job and you've been paid and you've got that... I've got that week. It's just, it lasts about a week where I'm going, I'm gonna do this thing that I always wanna do. It's gonna be fun, and I'm gonna get it out there and I'll see it and I'll do that. And then after a week when they haven't... there's no work and there's no sign, no emails and things, and you're like, oh my God, I'm never gonna work again. This is this. What am I gonna do? What, what are my, what are my options?
And you start thinking, oh, I have to have to look around the shops and see if anyone wants any staff and you know, that kind of thing. And you get into this... and then another job comes in and you are like, oh, phew thank God for that.
But it's, it's something I've never really got used to that kind of, that, that the challenge of not knowing. that's, that's very difficult to get used to really, you know, and I sometimes think, you know, it would be, it would be nice to like, have a, have a contract , as a full-time job. And I'm just gonna pick this Wednesday just to drift through the day and things like that, like that. And try not get into trouble.
Yeah, I mean, the good thing is, is I might, I I, I'm obviously kind of very, sort of dedicated, dedicated? Committed to what I'm doing. I, I.. Another, another brag. Another brag, but it must be, it must be true because I've been out here for 15 years and it has been at ups and downs, so it's kind of, it's a test, isn't it?
If you can do, if you've got the idea of going freelance and you've got a particular idea. If you're sticking at it, then it, something must be right about it, isn't it? If, if you get through the tough, the tough bits and you're still stupidly doing it...
Steve Folland: Do you know that was almost the most perfect motivational poster
Dave Anderson: Despite everything in every, you know. You know, and, you think maybe I should have taken the school career's advice.
Steve Folland: What was the school's career advice?
Dave Anderson: I think I was a tree surgeon, I think for a tree surgeon, right. But, yeah, probably quite rightly advised not necessarily to go to art necessarily, to art college, but it took a bit of a breakaway, you know, once I was outta the school gates, I was like, you know, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to art school. But, within that there's a lot of, You know, adaptation goes on. I've steered, you know, I didn't necessarily, I, I was doing bad paintings at art college, but then I was, someone said to me, oh, you're, you know, you're a, you know, you're a lot chattier and more fun in the college bar, and you're having a miserable time doing these paintings, so why don't you try making some sort of funny stuff?
And so, and then that, that, and that started to get a bit more of a positive reaction. and, I felt better and more enthusiastic about it. So it's kind of that. And then, I only got, I, I, leaving art college. I'd only made like one little animation on WH Smith note paper, but I sent, I sent lots of stuff off to various companies in London, but this one animation company hired me as a runner. So that's how it got me into animation. So within one sort of field of study, there's lots of different like kind of roots and, so really Yeah. Following, yeah, following your nose. It feels a bit really, but that's, I think that's life I think that is life actually
Steve Folland: So it feels like there's cold outreach where you are reaching out to people who maybe weren't expecting you to get in touch, but then there's also that staying on their radar... Do you also reach out to people you already know, who know you and things? And is that a conscious thing that you make time for?
Dave Anderson: Yeah, I think, I think now nowadays, 'cause a lot of, I noticed, I noticed that there were certain jobs I was getting that have kind of fallen away. And it takes a little bit of time to realize that, that, that then you, you know, that that's not happening any anymore.
But it may, they don't want, not necessarily they don't want you, but it's just not a demand anymore. I mean. One of them is like storyboards for films. They don't necessarily hire illustrators. They do. There's like lots of automation and AI and things like that that happen now, but that was a regular thing and then it wasn't a regular thing and you realize, oh, I don't actually kind of necessarily do that anymore.
And I was an illustrator for, the Metro, online section of the newspaper. And that was for a few years. And then things change and then they'd have other ideas and they don't want to, you know, they find alternatives that, you know, so it, that falls away. And then so it got, it was a little point where I realized I'm only doing sort of animation and I need to kind of, sort of broaden things out a bit.
So I was. I've been sort of recent years kind of getting in touch, but with this sort of mindset that , I can offer or solve some kind of problem for... identifying the people that I could, you know, I've done this kind of work, this is I've done before and I've got a record of achievements in this area or something like that.
Would you like this? So, and, and also like ice... you know, having a good icebreaker with someone or some something in common or, or, or, or things like that. That's, that's, you know, that's, that's nice. That's nice to sort of think, oh, I can do, oh, they know this person. Oh, right, okay. Okay. Let's, we've got a connection.
Connection there. So that's always more, more helpful. But yeah, I mean. Yeah, I, and then you can, you, you can waste sort of time sort of sending things off, sending your work off to people that you know, you know, really there's gonna be no, no, there's no interest. There's no interest there. So it's, it's kind of, yeah, I'd wanna say calculating, but yeah, it's, it's, there's, there's some kind of, Yeah. Yeah thought process, shall we say. Going on there.
Steve Folland: Dave, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Dave Anderson: If I'm kind of ever moaning about like work I do now, I think just telling my younger self all the sort of opportunities I've sort of been given and, and you know, all the, you know, the things, the jobs I've lucky enough to do, I think.
Yeah, I don't think I'd ever believe I if my younger self would ever believe that was gonna happen and doing it independently as well, I think, yeah. I'm gonna get emotional at the end really now, but just tell it, you know, just making the idea, you know when I said like I'm, I want to go to art school and this is my own decision...
It's funny 'cause I sort of try, I try, you know, you try lots of things, you know, I tried playing football, I'd learn the guitar and things like that. But it wasn't like a kind of gen, I was always pretending to be something else. You know, you think, oh they look cool, I'm gonna, you know, but I generally just being creative, doing art and design was definitely, it was in, it was a genuine kind of, you know, thing I had.
Not wanted to do, and not only wanted to do, but had, you know, felt I had to do. And to make it all happen. And to be given these, you know, you're gonna have all of these opportunities and make all of these things on the way, you know, along the way. It's, it's, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough old road.
It's, it's, it's really good. It's really good stuff on, on the whole, on reflection, you know? So, yeah, I think it's gonna be all right. I think that's...
Steve Folland: Oh man. Well, I'm glad it's gonna be all right and, but it was all right Dave, it's been so good to talk to you. Go to being freelance.com as there are for all of our guests there links through so you can find Dave online and check out his work, check out his animations, wherever they are, be it on his website or Instagram or whatever.
But Dave, for now, thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
Dave Anderson: Oh, pleasure. Absolutely. Lovely chatting Steve.
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