About this podcast episode…

FREELANCE DESIGNER & ILLUSTRATOR ANDY HAU

Meet multifaceted designer and illustrator and one-person agency, Andy Hau. 

Andy shatters the typical freelance mold by sharing his unique journey from architecture to the wide world of design, revealing how a chance encounter with musician Imogen Heap kickstarted his career in a new direction. 

Andy discusses the challenges of marketing yourself, the evolution of social media in bringing him opportunities, and the importance of speaking to actual humans in the noisy digital age.

We also explore how the illustrations of ‘Quinn The Fox’ that Andy created to convey his own emotions have now turned into a successful homeware and print side business.

It’s an inspiring and fun conversation filled with practical advice, heartfelt reflections, of goals realised or reworked and a deep dive into what it means to be truly freelance. Even if you don’t realise that’s what you are. 

Because sometimes ‘you have to be a bit cringe’ to be successful. Whether that be reaching out to people on LinkedIn, or talking about yourself to a popular freelancing podcast.  

Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.

More from FREELANCER ANDY HAU

Andy Hau website - A.H.A. Design
Andy Hau on Instagram
Quinn The Fox on Instagram
Quinn The Fox website
Andy Hau on LinkedIn
Julia Broughton - Letters By Julia - episode of Being Freelance Podcast

More from Steve Folland

Steve on Instagram
Steve’s freelance site
Being Freelance Community
Steve’s course for new freelancers
The Doing It For The Kids podcast

Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast
with Steve Folland and ANDY HAU

Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?

Andy Hau: Actually, I I feel a bit of a fraud being on this podcast because I've never actually marketed myself as a freelancer so I I guess that's the end of the podcast.

Steve Folland: So nice to see you.

Andy Hau: No, but I mean joking aside that's clearly what I do, but i've just never It's never i've never called myself a freelancer because so many of my projects require like a team of people. So for example if i'm working on you know, a client comes to me and they want a website done, then I have a network of developers who I've worked with a lot, who I trust implicitly.

Or if someone's asking me, Oh, can you do an animation? There's a team of animators that I've worked with for years. And so I, I see myself as more of a, I guess, one person agency to, without sounding too kind of up my own, whatever. But, but clearly I am a freelancer. That is, that is what I do.

Steve Folland: See yourself as a one person agency. How did you actually get started? You hit the floor running at that?

Andy Hau: No, so, I mean, my background is actually in architecture. And I did the full seven years, fully graduated fully qualified, worked on some amazing buildings. And, whilst I love designing buildings and I loved my job at the time, I just got to a point where I thought, I, I really want to design other things.

Designing a building is great, but it can take years before you see something come out of the ground. And I was like, actually, I want to see some of the things that I design out in the real world a lot sooner. So one day in 2008, I was listening to a vlog by one of my favorite musicians. Her name is Imogen Heap.

She's probably most famous for her song, Hide And Seek -was featured in the Oc. But she's also written for people like Ariana Grande Taylor Swift, people like that. Anyway, so in this vlog she was recording her album Ellipse, and she was saying that she was looking for designers to design the packaging for her album and she was very clear that she didn't want, you know, you didn't have to be a designer. You didn't have to be a graphic designer. You just had to have some sort of creative vision. And so I didn't have much of a portfolio at the time, mainly my architectural stuff. So I thought, well, I'm, she's not going to choose me, but I'll, I'll send it in anyway.

And then literally a couple of days later, her assistant was on the phone and asking, oh, would you like to come and visit Imogen at her house, have dinner with her and discuss her album packaging? And I was like, actually, yes, I would love to, I would love to do that, funnily enough. And, and so that's, that really got kick started a whole new career path for me, and also it made me realise, yes, I can design other things beside just buildings.

So from that project, I was very lucky. Cause it was quite high profile. Lots of other musicians came and asked me if I would be able to help them with their album packaging. I was also getting commissioned by magazines to do sort of illustration work as well. And it just got to a point where I had to say to my boss at the time, Look, I don't know where this is going to go, but I've got to, I've got to try.

And he was very understanding and he said, yes, you know, you've got to go for it. And so in 2014, I went out on my own. And then within a couple of months, I was being commissioned by people like American Express. One of my prints was featured by a very prominent YouTuber at the time and it sold out within an hour.

That's how I kind of built my online following, I guess. And yeah, 10 years later, here I am on Being Freelance.

Steve Folland: So, so does that mean there was like a period of maybe three or four years where between being commissioned by Imogen Heap and leaving architecture?

Andy Hau: Yes. So that so I started when I was 30 and I basically graduated, I think when I was 24. Headhunted by this huge global architecture firm. Loved it there. Really, really enjoyed it. And because it was a multidisciplinary office, I was, they, they used to sit you in all kinds of places and I always sat next to like a graphic designer my desk was also facing the model workshop So I had all these different people around me sort of creative people around me. And I would see them work and i'm like, oh that looks interesting and they would encourage you to go around talking to you know, maybe the engineers the model makers and that's kind of when I realised actually yes, I I love designing buildings, but I also love all aspects of design.

But yes, there were a few years where I was just designing buildings. And I don't know how much you know about architecture, but the beginning of any building is super exciting, super creative. Everyone's in the room and you know, you're drawing on the ceilings and all of that. And then after that period, It's very, very technical and there's a lot of like technical work, but also detailed work where you're, you know, detailing every single door in a building or you're labeling, okay, every window in this building needs X, Y, Z.

And so a lot of that creativity at the beginning of a project sort of gets sapped out, but when it starts to get built. So I think that also contributed to why I wanted to be sort of more creative.

Steve Folland: So you were still working there, but you were freelancing on the side, suddenly doing album packaging and things like that. Did, did you create an online presence?

Andy Hau: I did! So, that was back in 2008. Imogen Heap was on social media at the time and she said, Look, I think you should go on Twitter. And that was when it was first starting. And at the time, content creation wasn't a real thing. You know, people, like, posted what they were eating, and, you know, what their kids were doing.

But, there weren't people who were actively, like, creating content, unlike now. And so, I would just post my illustrations online and it got really good traction. And so a lot of people would. Would find me huge companies would find me. So as I said before within the first few months I was being commissioned by people like American Express because they had found me on Tumblr or something like that obviously it's a it's a lot different now

Steve Folland: Wow. I was going to say, how did that come about? So it's the, it's the fact that they were out there searching these places at that time. But how did you then, Did you know what you were doing? Sorry, you can't see, but Andy just shook his head before I even finished the question.

Andy Hau: It was the Wild West back then on social media. I know it seems like the Wild West now. But e back then, we really didn't know what we were doing. I, I knew that I loved drawing things. And so I would just post them online and, and hope people liked them. And luckily they did.

But I didn't think, oh, you know, someone like American Express might find me there. It's very different now. You can't do that anymore because well, firstly, the algorithm is, is so different now and it shows people what it wants to show as opposed to before.

But also so many people are creating content now and that's their full time profession, you know, content creators. So a lot of your work now gets buried under all of that. But back then you, you could, you could find huge projects that way.

Steve Folland: Yeah. So in a world I'm conscious that we're probably skipping around a, you know, the timeframe, but in a world now where there's a lot going on, it's a lot noisier. How do you float to the top?

Andy Hau: Is a really difficult question I I still think that you need to go on social media because even if people don't see your work Let's say I think If you contact someone, cold call someone, cold email someone, the first thing they do is go on their phone and check Instagram, to check that you're a real person, to check, you know, what's he like as a person.

And so I think it's important to post even if two people are watching. You know, I think you need something on there to demonstrate that you are a human being and that you are good at what you do and they should hire you. But nowadays, it's more about. Trying to connect with people in real life. It's about word of mouth.

It's also being You know, I I was born in england. And and so there's this kind of very british way of like Oh, I don't want to like bother people and I don't want to contact people or I don't want to disturb my friends or whatever. But now I'm just like, okay, friend, I know that you know, the packaging manager of so and so company, can you help me get a foot through the door?

And, and it's being a bit more proactive. Whereas before I was literally just posting online and hoping, Oh, maybe, you know, the, the, packaging designer of whatever company would find me. Now it's being a bit more proactive about it. And even if they don't respond, I will still update them on kind of what I've been doing.

Until they tell me, we don't want to hear from you anymore. Can you stop hassling us? I will keep emailing them and hope basically, but it is difficult. It is very difficult nowadays.

Steve Folland: you, you mentioned cold calls or cold emails. So is that something you do?

Andy Hau: It's something that I've started doing. I, I, certainly for the first nine, ten years, I didn't, I didn't do it because I was just so uncomfortable with it. And also it takes a lot, a lot out of me mentally. You know, as, as designers, you just want to be creative and design pretty things and that's it.

Like to, to kind of sell yourself is a very horrible thing as a, as a designer to do. And so. I have started doing it because I think, especially with AI, especially with the amount of people who are designers nowadays. I think there is a, there's. Yeah, we're going back to sort of that human connection.

I always say like human connection, human touch will be the the new luxury because with with all the AI and technology that's developing, I think human contact will be incredibly important in time, in the future.

Steve Folland: Yes. Yeah. If you're doing cold outreach though, how do you, I mean, it just sounds actually, I was about to say, how do you deal with rejection, but it's just sounds like you just keep plugging away.

Andy Hau: Yeah, I'm not that fussed about rejection, if I'm honest. I'm lucky that I I have one of those personalities where I just think, oh, if you, if you don't. If you don't like me, you don't like me. That's, and I, perhaps that has been developed through so like 15 years of social media, turning up online and, and filming yourself and showing your work at some point, you just think.

If you don't like me, there's nothing I can do about it. And, you know, other people's opinion of you is just none of your business, really.

Steve Folland: So you described yourself as a one person agency and hiring other people, but so far everything sounds like, well, somebody came to me, I designed this. So at what point did you think, ah, I can't quite do this, but I can hire other people. Like, was there a moment?

Andy Hau: Yes, so actually one of the first projects that I did, I was really lucky. I was contacted by a, an animation studio. And I'd never done an animation in my life before. And They said, that's okay. We just really like your style. Would you be able to do the key frames for this? So they were static images, which I knew how to do.

And so I was so inexperienced at the time I had to do, I can't remember how many drawings it was, but it was a lot, if you can imagine like a 30 second animation, how many key frames you need for that. And I was like, I'll do it. I'll do it for 400 pounds, which is nothing in the, you know, it works out to be like 3. 99 a frame or something. I was really lucky, Bernard from Beast Collective who was, who were, who was the person commissioning me. He told me, look, I don't think you're charging, I don't think you're charging enough. And so he taught me how to price basically. I was really, really lucky that he didn't go, thank you very much, I'll take the profit, and you know.

He taught me how to, how to price properly, and I was Yeah, really grateful for that. But anyway, I ended up working alongside an animator that Bernard had commissioned. His name's Jonathan. And we ended up getting on really, really well. And I actually ended up commissioning him to do an animation for a personal animation.

And I, I think this is really important, like even as an architect or as a freelancer or whatever, go and commission other people, because then you know what it feels like. To, to spend your own money, I think, especially in architecture where you're just like, Oh, it's the client's money, you know, yes, I will have those beautiful details and yes, I will have that veneered door or whatever, you know, solid oak door, but it's not your money that's being spent.

But when you go and actually commission another freelancer or another person, you understand what it feels like. So when you're working on projects, it makes it, you kind of understand. You know, the pain of having, having to spend that money. But yeah, so I, I ended up commissioning Jonathan to help me work on something and I thought, Oh, actually he's really good.

I'd love to work with him on other things. And then he had a project and he asked me to do it to do the key frame source. He did, he did the animation. So that kind of, it's kind of developed from there basically. And then I got to use that when. Puma commissioned me and they said, look, we don't know any animators.

We would be looking to you to find animators. And I knew by that point, I knew loads and loads of animators. Cause I'd, I'd worked in so many animation projects. And that's when I kind of realized, Oh, actually I can, I can form a team. I can form a team of people and being again, being on social media for so long, I developed a group of people.

A group of followers that had different skills and I trusted them. And yeah, so that's kind of where it happened.

Steve Folland: But then that takes you into a different realm of pricing and managing people and all sorts.

Andy Hau: It does, it is really difficult because pricing is not something that I'm particularly good at. I, as I said, I was very lucky. Bernard taught me how to price, but also I'm part of the association of illustrators and on their website they have Pricing guidelines on what you should charge and what you shouldn't charge.

And so that's what I, what I use also being based in London. Sometimes people bulk at the price, but you know, it has been checked. It has been checked by an association that it's, you know, it's within the realms of, of what other people are charging.

Steve Folland: Yeah, but it becomes when you're hiring other people, then there's that element of maybe you're paying them before the client pays you and you're maybe managing a project rather than just doing the design work.

Andy Hau: Yeah. So managing a project isn't that bad for me, but mainly because of my architectural background where you are managing The cost, you're managing a whole team of people, you're managing the engineers, you're managing you're managing the contractors, the builders, et cetera. So for me, that wasn't a very big it wasn't that different actually.

But yes, paying people before you get paid is often, is often difficult. Especially if you don't have, you know, the, if If your client is unwilling or doesn't want to pay up front for, I don't know, 50 percent or whatever. So, you know, that is something that you need to consider.

Steve Folland: do you describe yourself as an agency? Do you have a company name or like, how's that

Andy Hau: So it's, it's weird. I, so at the beginning, especially in 2008, 2000 to 2014, I just thought I'm, I'm going to be a name, you know, like people will want to contact me as a person because they like my my design. And I, I've bypassed that idea very quickly. It was just too difficult. And so I have. A studio name, it's called AHA Design, Andy Hau Associates Design and I find that, one, it makes you seem a little bit bigger, I guess, and so, perhaps, Some of the bigger companies might be more comfortable reaching out to you.

But also there, there is a kind of distance there. But then once they contact you and they phone you or we have a meeting they realize, Oh, actually it's kind of all the benefits of a large agency, but with all the personality and service of a sort of one man band. So it, it, it offers the positive sides of, of, of both.

Steve Folland: And do you speak in a, you know, we do this, do you show any team or do you still put yourself out there?

Andy Hau: It depends. So sometimes I do if, if there has been a project where there have been multiple people on it, I'll say we, but if it's a project that I've worked on on my own, then I, I'm more comfortable to say I, I did that now. I think it, it depends on the project.

Steve Folland: Yeah. And have you ever. Like, or do you have a niche? Like you, you clearly very skilled in lots of. different areas and do lots of different things. Is there a niche to what you do?

Andy Hau: I would say probably illustration is my, is my niche, but I think anything that requires a design or anything that requires something to look pretty, that's. what I specialize in, I think. I think that in terms of media you know, the media that you work in, it's, it doesn't matter. The most important thing is a creative vision.

And, and I think that's what I'm selling as opposed to my technical skills, which I also have, but I think I'm trying to project more or sell myself on my creative vision.

Steve Folland: Do you still do like your own stuff, I guess, like your own side projects... earlier on you were saying about posting your own stuff. Yeah. Your own illustrations or you commissioned an animation, which was just for your own sake. Like, do you still do find time for that?

Andy Hau: I do. So I actually own a stationary and homeware brand called Quinn the Fox. And the animation that I was talking about was for Quinn the Fox at the time. So that started as a side project really. And also at the time I had a portfolio that was full of. architecture work, but actually not much design work, not much illustration work.

And so Quinn the Fox started as a way for me to do, I guess, marketing, but also as a Gemini, I love talking, like I loved it. I love doing this, but actually a lot of the words that I'm saying don't have much meaning behind them. I'm not very good at expressing what I actually feel. And so Quinn the Fox began as a, as a way for me to sort of express those feelings and emotions and doubts without actually having to express them verbally.

I could do it just visually. And so that's what I did. I wanted this one character to tie all of these stories and emotions together. And so we would all vicariously see like my inner mind through his eyes, basically. And so I'd post these illustrations online thinking. Again, who's going to like this?

But then he did end up building a quite a following. And one of my neighbors at the time, Catherine said, have you ever thought about turning some of these illustrations into, into products? And I was like, Oh, actually, maybe, maybe I should do that. And so that's what I, what I did. And since then we've been featured in GQ.

We've been in El Deco, The Observer, The Sun all kinds of places.

Steve Folland: Amazing! But is that like, I mean, it is a separate business, which also feeds in, I mean, you feed into each other, I guess, but how do you sort of, like, do you split up your time over these? Like, how do you deal with

Andy Hau: It. It is getting much much harder now at the beginning it was easy because I would just do like one Illustration set aside, you know, maybe a day to do An illustration a week and then post it on social media and you know, whatever happens happens But now because i'm starting to get orders i'm starting to you know be featured by you know Press it is getting a lot lot harder.

I haven't quite figured out how How i'm going to do it. Yeah, I I did. Hire someone a few years ago. It didn't quite work out sadly but that's probably the direction I want to go where you know There will be people in here packing orders designing the next product doing social media talking to press things like that

Steve Folland: Yeah you say in here, so that means you're not, well, unless you're about to have loads of people come over to your house what, what, what's your work set up like?

Andy Hau: So since the beginning I have had Because being in design, it's, it's difficult because it's one of those careers where it could also technically be considered a hobby, like, you know, it's not like accountancy where, where you're like, Oh, I might do a BT return in my, in my spare time, you know, actually, I don't know, perhaps accountants do do that, you know, let us know.

But you know, It's very easy to let design infiltrate your entire life. And so I needed that separation. So I have an office that's a 10 minute walk down the road from my, from my home. And at the end of the day, I can lock the door and think, you know, that part of my life is done for the day. If I want to do other kinds of designing things I can, but it's at home, but it's a personal thing.

And perhaps I won't post it online. But everything I do in this office is, is work related. And that's how I. Get that separation.

Steve Folland: And is it just you? Because I remember right near the beginning when you were in the architecture place, you seemed to thrive off of having different creative people around you.

Andy Hau: I do. I do. And I do miss that. As I say, I mean, to be fair, it is, it is a very creative office space. We've got all kinds of people here. I love that. I love that feeling right at the beginning of a project where you just get people in a room and there's paper everywhere. And as I say, people are drawing on the ceiling and, you know, all these crazy ideas come out.

And yes, I it's hard to get that, especially So even before the pandemic, you could go and meet, you could meet clients, you could meet the team. But post pandemic, people are more reluctant to, you know, people would rather have a Teams meeting or a Zoom call and you, you don't get the same energy, I think.

So I would like to bring that if possible. Also, you know, it is difficult. If I do hire someone, a lot of people don't like. Working in an office now they want to work from home. So there is that difficulty. I think

Steve Folland: Hmm. Do you know other creatives? Like, are there? Other people like yourself that you get to hang out with discuss things with

Andy Hau: i'm very lucky I because for so many years on social media. I didn't make it just about design I I Broadcasted basically every tiny thought that was on my mind. And so i've ended up with a with an audience that Knows a bit about everything really so i'm i'm very lucky And i've ended up meeting a lot of those people in real life, particularly if they live in in london and sometimes the job is not directly related to mine, but it's kind of adjacent to it.

So for example Julia Broughton, who you interviewed a while ago. She is someone I met online. She, she does she's a very talented calligraphy lettering artist. And so her job is not necessarily completely related to, to mine, but at the same time, there are sort of.

Overlaps and I like building relationships with people like that because I think the most interesting ideas come at the intersection of different disciplines. I think if you're, you know, hanging out with other designers, I think that's great. You know, and you can have some really in depth conversations, but often it becomes a bit of a an echo chamber and you know, it's, you know, It's nice to have different views and different opinions on design or whatever you're talking about.

Steve Folland: yeah, how about the the way work? Come comes to you. Is there periods where you're maybe working on multiple projects at once? Are there sections when everything's dried up like what's it like for

Andy Hau: Yeah, there is a bit of a it can be feast or famine sometimes. I was very lucky during the pandemic. I had a startup contact me who basically put me on a, on a retainer. And so for throughout the pandemic, I had work or throughout, but, You know, those projects don't come about often. And so there are periods where Yes, you, you have a lot of work and it's just you on your own sometimes and you know, you struggle to get everything done and you're working weekends and you're working through the night and then a week later you, you might not have anything.

But normally, you know, touch wood, fingers crossed something turns up. Eventually something turns up.

Steve Folland: All right, back with Andy's story in a moment. I just want to thank Lulu again for supporting this episode. With a book, you can establish authority and credibility in your industry. I have lost track of the number of freelancers I've spoken to for this podcast who have done just that. A whole new book.

That positions you as that one a higher person, or you can take content you've already created like blog posts or podcast transcripts as an idea and give them the attention they deserve. And it doesn't have to just be text. You could bring your portfolio to the page, be it illustrations or graphics or case studies.

How impressive will that look? to potential and existing clients. And yes, Lulu will help you sell for the usual suspects like Amazon. But what I love is how Lulu's print on demand integrations, make it easy to sell books directly from your own site. Lulu take care of the printing and the shipping and customize.

So it looks like it's coming from your brand. How good is that? You keep 100 percent of your revenue. When you do it that way, you retain your customer's demand. Data access your funds immediately and never have to worry about having hundreds of books sitting in your living room. Although they are quite good at keeping up the draft.

Grow your credibility, your brand, your audience, your revenue all with a book. But before you write a page, check out this page beingfreelance. com slash Lulu and let me know what you create. I would love to see it. Okay, now let's get back to Andy's story. And have you, as an agency of one, been tempted to hire, like, to build the thing which is bigger than you all the time?

Andy Hau: Absolutely. It's, it's still something that I haven't managed to do yet. And it's something that I really want to do because as I say, I really like that creative energy of, of having. different creatives in one room together. I think it's, it's what I thrive off. It's something that I really enjoy, but it is really difficult finding the right people who one don't want to freelance.

I, you know, I think especially in illustration where people can just work from home and they can work on whatever projects they want to, it's difficult to then tempt them. Unless you pay them a lot to come to an office and, you know, work for someone else. And I think, you know, that was one of the reasons that I left architecture as well, as much as I loved it.

When a building got built and it was in the press you would often see the name of the, the lead architect, but you wouldn't see your name, you know, it'd be like lead architect plus team. And I think if you become you know, part of an agency, then often As a creative person you might not see your name, you know on the website or whatever.

Do you want that? So it's very difficult to to tempt people away from that from that place but it is something that I want to do and as I said, a few years ago I did hire someone, and we created some really fun things for Quinn the Fox. Sadly, it didn't work out, but it was just before the pandemic, so I was quite lucky in some ways, but it is something that I would like to, to look at in the future.

Steve Folland: Yeah. Are you someone who sets goals?

Andy Hau: I am, I think I am quite a goal oriented person but at the same time, being a Gemini, I, I allow it to sort of, you know, go in slightly different directions. You know, sometimes you, you make a plan and it doesn't, doesn't work out. I don't then go, okay, right. That's it. Then I've, I've failed. I will say, okay, well, how can I sort of maybe redirect into a different, different goal or, or, or change the goalposts slightly.

Steve Folland: In what way?

Andy Hau: So for example, say with, What I do now I always wanted a team of people and it hasn't, it hasn't worked out rather than say I'm going to give up on that. I've just kind of carried on trying to reach out to people, reach out develop relationships with designers and perhaps one day they may want to join me.

Maybe they, they won't, but it's, it's not something where I'm like. Oh, well, that's, that's the end of the dream then, you know I failed at that. So, you know, I'm going to stop that now. It's, it's about being slightly flexible on things like that. But at the same time, I do think it's important to have a goal because otherwise you are completely directionless and like a dandelion seed in the wind, just letting the wind, you know, blow you wherever.

And I, I can't live like that personally. I find that very difficult to, to live like that. So I always have some kind of goal.

Steve Folland: You mentioned earlier that, especially with AI coming through in design and illustration, but obviously it's everywhere, but in particular that's what you focus on the human touch. Is going to become even more important. How do you nurture those client relationships? Or maybe they're not even clients yet, but.

Andy Hau: So I've started and I think Quinn the Fox is very much about human touch and, you know, living slowly and living, you know being aware of your situation rather than just letting life pass you by. And so I've been writing postcards to people. I've been encouraging people to write handwritten letters to me.

And if they, if they handwrite it, then I will reply. If they type it, I might not reply. And you know, and be trying not to be so available on WhatsApp as well. Like I won't immediately pick up, but if you write me a letter, I will probably write you back. It's. It's kind of nurturing all the things that we used to do that we thought actually it was too inefficient and useless, but actually a lot of humanity is in those inefficiencies and it's in those details that we've, you know, looked over because it, because it was inefficient.

So that's kind of what I've been doing.

Steve Folland: Do you know that's so funny you say that because I've been sitting there so as well as the podcast I have the being freelance community and I'm very aware that people joins often because other people have recommended them and I think I want to thank the person who Recommended you and the obvious way it or an obvious way is Affiliate.

You know, you could set up an affiliate scheme and they come on this code and you give them a bit of money. But part of me thinks, I'd rather write them a card and send them some cake in the post. Like,

Andy Hau: Why not? I think that there is something about that personal touch and I think in the past maybe even 10 years, we've just said, Oh, we want efficiency. Everything has to be efficient. You know, we don't know our neighbors anymore. We, you know, we don't have time for that. We don't talk to anyone on the bus.

We don't, you know, perhaps that's a London thing. I don't know. But generally we are very kind of detached from others. And I think in years to come, when AI will be so advanced that you'll be able to. You know, I, I'll be able to say, Steve, I don't, I'm not coming on your podcast. You'll have to talk to AI Andy instead, you know, and he'll do probably a better job than, than I am at the moment.

It, you know, you need, you need that kind of human touch. You need that human connection again to remind us what it means to be human. Yeah,

Steve Folland: How do you stay in touch with the people that you work with at, you know, let's say American Express or Puma, those are people you've mentioned, but I'm imagining they float around different companies. How do you stay in touch with them?

Andy Hau: I have to admit, I've been really awful at that. And it's one thing that I do. I just always assumed, oh, I did a great job. And so they'll remember me and so they'll recommission me along. And that, that is a very good thing. And it's probably not their fault, but you know, they, they work with a lot of people.

So you're probably not always at the at the forefront of their mind. And so in the past few years, I have been reaching out, you know, on LinkedIn on by email, just to say, look, these are some of the things that we I've been working on. What have you been working on? And, you know, it'd be great if, you know, If we could catch up and, you know, generally it has been like, Oh, I haven't spoken to you for years.

And yes, you know these are the things that we're working on and yes, we'll, we'll keep you in mind, of course, et cetera, et cetera. So it is important to do those things. And if I can. You know, give one piece of advice. It would be to keep those connections kind of going rather than assuming, Oh yes, they'll remember me because you know, when was the last time you remembered someone that did a great job?

You probably remember the last time someone did an awful job for you rather than, you know, someone doing a good job. So yes.

Steve Folland: And so you, you use LinkedIn, like, even if it was years ago, It doesn't matter. I'm going to find that person.

Andy Hau: Yeah, and often it's like, oh, do you realize that it's been, I don't know, five years since we last spoke? We'd love to keep in touch with you or love to add you. I hate, I hate that title. I'd love to add you to my network. You know, that, that, it's, and it's cheesy and it's horrible and you know, I cringe whilst I'm typing it.

But, you know, sometimes you have to be a little bit cringe to, to To succeed in life. That's why I'm on here.

Steve Folland: There's a t shirt in that. I like that. Yeah, that's true. But do you post others? So is LinkedIn for you a place where you post things or a place where you message and have those conversations?

Andy Hau: A little bit of both. I tried to post cause LinkedIn isn't my natural habitat. I would say I do post once a week just to say, these are the things that I've been working on and delighted to show you that I've been working on this, you know, all that LinkedIn gubbins, but my, my kind of natural Habitat is probably Instagram or TikTok and a lot of my clients are on there and on their personal accounts as well.

So they, they follow me there.

Steve Folland: Now, Andy, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?

Andy Hau: It's the fact that if you go out into the world looking for reasons to doubt yourself, you'll find them. If you want to go out into the world looking for evidence that you're a failure, you will also find them. I'm not saying that you should be, you should embrace ignorance, but at the same time, sometimes you do have to wake up and just gaslight yourself and say, I'm actually doing fine.

I'm not going to listen to you today. Thank you very much. I was talking to a. recently an ex colleague. And I said, Oh, you know, I wish I had 10 years of building this. I thought I would be bigger by now. You know, I thought I would have several people in this office working together. And he said, so you've been going for 10 years, which means that you've basically survived a pandemic and a recession.

Do you not think that's. An achievement in itself. And I, you know, sometimes you do have to remember, actually, you're not doing as bad as you think you are. And actually everyone around you is just as confused as you are sometimes. And they're not all succeeding much more than you, or they're not all, not everyone is happier than you.

You know, you, you have to remind yourself constantly. that you're not doing as bad as you think you are.

Steve Folland: Nice. Yeah. And also, you know, who's to say that if you did have a bigger office with a big. Team around you that it would have outlived those financial pressures.

Andy Hau: Absolutely. And I, I wonder if I would have had the same project or the career path that I've had now. And, you know, perhaps they would have thought actually it's too risky to, to work with a big company. We don't want you to work on this. And actually being smaller offered some advantages too, I think.

Steve Folland: Yeah, and it's been 10 years or so You still have architecture listed on your website, don't you?

Andy Hau: I still consider myself an architect despite the fact that I haven't built. buildings for, you know, 10 years now. I still do like interior design. I still have done sort of internal so like signage or things like that. So there are still sort of architectural elements. And because it took me so long to qualify as an architect, I think it would be a waste to just say I'm not an architect anymore.

And so I keep that in there and I've been lucky. I've, I've had a few projects where the architecture part, despite the project not being an architecture project because I was an architect, it kind of, Attracted the right people. So for example, to bring it back Imogen Heap she was interested in working with me because her album was based on her house.

So she was making sounds from within her house and she thought it would be really interesting to, to get an architect to then design the packaging for an album that was based on a house. And equally there was a project that I did for Jaguar Land Rover where they were designing things that kids could do inside their store.

And so my background in architecture kind of helped in that as well. So it's not something that I will readily remove without a good, good reason for. I think if someone said, you know, if a marketing person said, actually, you're getting fewer projects because you, you say you're an architect, then I might consider it.

But at the moment it, it kind of, it does what. what I need it to do, so.

Steve Folland: And actually maybe it helps differentiate you maybe people are like oh intrigued

Andy Hau: The thing is, I, I, so many architects go into so many different random, different things, so I, I, I read that there was an architect who ended up being a pie maker, and on their pies they still say that they're architects, you know, but now they just make pies. I think, you know, it can be whatever you want it to be.

Steve Folland: Wonderful. Andy, it's been so good to talk to you. Go to beingfreelance. com as they are for all of our guests. You can click through, find Andy's links online. And of course, if you've enjoyed this, reach out, follow him, all of those things as well. But for now, Andy, thank you so much and all the best being freelance.

Andy Hau: Thank you so much.

Episode sponsored by LULU

Publish & Sell your book with Lulu

- Stand out as an expert
- Land new opportunities
- Diversify your income
- Have the best business card ever

And of course a whole lot more.
Your words, your images and you’re in control.

Join the millions who have already published with Lulu (a B Corp - hello!) & take your freelance career to the next level.

Click here to see what Lulu could do for you ⬅️