Copywriter Adri Kopp
About this episode…
COPYWRITER ADRI KOPP
From big cat zookeeper to taming words as a freelance copywriter, Adri's freelancing story starts a little differently. Burnout led to her quitting the zoo before even securing a paying client.
A persistence in cold emailing, dealing with rejections that would have made many give up has led to warm relationships and a niche in emails themselves. Adri shares her approach to cold and warm emailing. And discusses the way she pays attention to what in her work gives her energy.
Adri appreciates the freedom and flexibility that freelancing offers and talks about how she deliberately chose to work less hours to avoid burnout, even if it meant earning less money.
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from ADRI KOPP
Adri’s website: Kopp Copy
Adri on Instagram
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Copywriter Adri Kopp
Steve: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Adri: Yeah, thank you. So for me, it kind of started with just being really burnt out actually at a previous job and career actually a zookeeper. And I knew that I probably wouldn't want that job forever just because there is kind of an income limit to it. And also you're working a lot of like weekends and holidays.
So I kind of knew that wasn't going to be like my forever career. But I had no idea what I wanted to do next and actually got hit with an Instagram ad that was like, become a freelance copywriter
Steve: No
Adri: and yeah so I took an online course and that kind of launched my career.
Steve: So, up until that point, and just in case people are going, sorry, did she say zookeeper? Yes, yes she did. You don't need to go and check the transcription. How long were you a zookeeper?
Adri: yeah I was a zookeeper for eight years, I think. Yeah,
Steve: Come on, look, I'm sorry, I know it's called being freelance, not called being a zookeeper, but it's not often you talk to one. What animals did you look after?
Adri: Mostly carnivores. That was kind of my, like, team specialty. Lions, tigers, cheetahs, bears, yeah.
Steve: That is so cool. Okay, right. But I'm guessing, because some people, I don't know, they might be working in project management, let's say, and as, or marketing, and as part of that, they regularly do bits of copywriting. Did you do copywriting as a zookeeper?
Adri: So funnily enough, like when I started the copywriting, I thought, no, I have zero experience, but actually I had done some blogs for the zoo at one point. So I'd been doing a little bit of blog writing and I guess I had also kind of written some emails for them at some points, but yeah, I, I really had no experience, but what's interesting is actually my original study in college. I studied English and psychology. I was a double major. So you can imagine that kind of gave me actually a really good base to become a copywriter. I just didn't actually know copywriting existed. So that was pretty wild. Also, like, lack of education that they didn't even tell me about this career after studying English and psychology.
But yeah. So when I was kind of searching for new career paths I knew I loved writing. I just had never really known what I could do with it.
Steve: So you did a course, but, I mean, that's just doing a course, that's that's not then becoming a freelance copywriter, so how did you get your first clients? Did you do it while you were still at the zoo?
Adri: Yeah. So I kind of like built everything. I like learned everything, built my website. Like to build a portfolio, I just reached out to a couple people I knew and also like a nonprofit and offered to do some free work for them. So I did some emails for one of my friends who has like an art business and then wrote a blog for a nonprofit and just kind of built a few pieces that way.
And then, yeah, the, the course that I took recommended cold email. And that's what I did to get my first clients. I just kind of reached out on, on cold email and yeah, it, it was pretty wild actually. But,
Steve: So to ask then, and I should just clarify, like, when, when was this?
Adri: Yeah, so let's see, this was fall of 2020 that I was really like building everything. And then like spring of 2021, I actually, Like, completely quit my job. That was when I, like, had my portfolio set up. But I didn't have any paying clients yet. And I kind of did that on purpose because I was really burnt out and I wanted to take the summer off and travel with my boyfriend at the time.
And so, yeah, I I quit without having any paying clients, which was very a leap of faith, but ended up in the fall just like really buckling down on the cold emailing and it worked. So
Steve: So what was your approach with the cold emailing because often like within the being freelance community people would say, you know Has anybody done cold emailing any tips and and different people have different ways. So what did you do?
Adri: yeah, so it definitely took some like refining the process because when I started I was writing like really, really personalized. emails. But I think I wasn't necessarily hitting the right audience and stuff. I was like probably targeting businesses that were way too small to really hire out copy.
And so it took some refinement of like figuring out what businesses needed a copywriter. And being able to target them. And then also just like I was constantly rewriting my cold email like template. And yeah, definitely I got faster and faster at it. Being able to kind of keep a template, but still make it feel personal.
And I did get to where I was sending like 20 a day. And I think that that, like, I hear about people doing like really, really personal emails versus doing like spray and pray. They call it right.
Steve: Yeah, so
Adri: And I think it was kind of finding that middle ground, but being able to get those numbers up where I was hitting some volume because it's also about being in the right place at the right time.
So yeah, being able to hit that volume was really where I started to like get a lot of client calls and consultations and stuff.
Steve: you're going for companies who would need a copywriter eventually, but Like what were they like local ones? What like what was your
Adri: Yeah. A combination. So I actually like, I kind of took from my experience of being a zookeeper that I really wanted to work with like sustainable brands and stuff. So I was really targeting like specific. Industries and stuff. And so I targeted a lot of like sustainable e commerce companies and things.
And that actually was one thing that really helped me speed up the process. If anybody's out there doing cold emails I was like, would find one business that I thought, Ooh, I'd really like to work with them. This would be a great business. And then I would just search for other businesses that are really similar to them because there's very few businesses anymore that like exist as the only business that does what they do. Right. So I would like find all the businesses that do what they did. And then I could use almost the same email and like tweak it just a little bit for each one and be able to send that to all of them. And. Make my emails go further, if that makes sense.
Steve: And were you tracking them in some way
Adri: Yes, I do. I have like a whole spreadsheet on Excel that I like keep up with who I've written, when, you know what email I sent it to specifically and everything like that, because then I do send usually one follow up. I try not to be, you know, annoying and send many, but.
Steve: just bumping this back to the top of your inbox for the eighth time?
Adri: It is amazing though, the, the sent.. Cause for a while I did not send follow ups and then I finally started sending just the one follow up and my, like, I got so many responses to the follow up compared to just having one. Yeah.
Steve: so I mean how did you I mean, I don't know, maybe your hit rate was really great, but I'm sitting there thinking when, you know, when you're sending out 20 messages a day, part of that is because a lot of them aren't gonna hit. So, how do you cope with the, I don't know, silence or rejection? Or is getting a rejection better than silence?
I don't know, how, how is that side of it?
Adri: yeah, actually, to me, maybe the rejections were harder to, to stomach. Well, it depends what, how they say it, you know, when people just kind of respond, like, stop messaging me or unsubscribe or something. It's like, oh man, okay. That one will hit you in the gut a little bit, but I think just getting like some of the, the positives also helped balance that out.
And just knowing. And kind of going into it, knowing that you're going to get some negatives, also thinking like, it's not always you. That's the problem. Sometimes they're having a bad day and they're taking it out on you. So, yeah, but I did, I got a lot of positive responses of even people who were rejecting me, but in a positive way saying like, oh, we really liked your email.
We just don't really need a copywriter right now that gave me enough positive reinforcement to be like, okay, I'm doing the right things. I'm not, you know, always annoying people. It's just not the right time for them. And that's okay. That's why I need to send so many.
Steve: And so, how about the ones who did say yes?
Adri: So usually I would offer to get on like a free consultation call with them. So we would hop on for just like 20 minutes on a zoom call. And talk about like what their needs were and whether I was the right person to fill that or not. And so at the time I was actually like very much a generalist and it was just kind of finding what, you know, whether they needed help with blogs or emails.
And usually, you know, it was more like they would talk about what their problem was, whether it was like, you know, retention or, or lead generation or any of those things. And then I would be able to help offer a solution with copywriting in some way.
Steve: How quickly did it pick up? Because you'd quit your job, gone traveling, yeah, how long, how, how did it go?
Adri: Well, it was kind of sad at first. I was like, actually all summer while I was you know, taking time off and traveling, I was still just working a little bit, you know, some days. And so I was sending emails that whole time, but I was really slow at it. And I think at the end of the summer, I had written like 100 emails.
And I had had some interest and I'd had a call or two, but I had not, didn't have a paying client yet. And then I was like really buckled down. I was like, okay, I'm, I'm doing this. I'm going to make this work. And I sent 200 cold emails within a two week period. And after that, I just had calls like trickling in constantly.
I was so busy like creating proposals and things at that point that I really couldn't keep up that same amount. So that was like a two month period probably that I was really like onboarding clients and stuff. And by the end of November, I was able to fully support myself with my freelance work and yeah, so it definitely worked out.
Steve: How did you stay motivated during that period?
Adri: Probably my dwindling bank account is really motivating. That was probably the biggest motivation, but I think also then just having the positive experiences with my first clients too. And you know, they weren't. All 100 percent positive. Of course, when you're figuring out a freelance career, there's going to be some bumps along the way, but I had some really good clients at the very beginning who I actually still work with today.
So, yeah,
Steve: And so did you know what you were doing, you know, maybe it was in this course, like, in terms of The business side of it of pricing and things like that.
Adri: yeah, that the course that I took was like really comprehensive in that way. And I feel so lucky that I stumbled on a course that did both the copywriting skills, but also the business side of things. Like they like kind of taught us how to do the cold email process and then also the proposals and the pricing and stuff like everything was included.
So that was really, really helpful for sure. And the community, I know like that's kind of the core of the Being Freelance community too, is just having people to go to when you're, you know, in need of bouncing ideas off of people and everything. And that was really important to me. Some of the freelancers in there had been doing it for a while and others were brand new.
And so it was nice to connect. I even like made friends that we would have like zoom chats once a week where we would just kind of like hold each other accountable to our goals and talk about what's working and what's not and stuff. So it was really great to have like those kind of other new freelancer friends that were going through the same things I was, but also have that community of experienced freelancers too, that were able to actually answer my questions with experience behind it. Yeah.
Steve: out of interest in those cold emails. Did it mention that you used to be a zookeeper?
Adri: Some of them did because yeah, some of them that especially like in the kind of sustainability conservation niche. I thought maybe that was like relevant experience. If if I emailed a business that didn't really have that. Like, wasn't in that niche, then I usually didn't mention that.
Steve: I would find it hard not to reply to somebody who said, by the way, here's a picture of me feeding a tiger. Okay, so that's a good couple of years of it having picked up speed and, and sort of up and running. Has, has it changed since then?
Adri: Yeah, it's, it's been changing a lot, actually. Like. I, I mean, yeah, we talked about going through like periods of change, but I'm like, sometimes I just feel like it's all change and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Definitely. Like I said, I kind of started as a generalist and then I. It was like really, it was even like six months into my business that I kind of realized I really wanted to specialize in email.
So that was a big shift when I like I rewrote my website and worked on really like projecting that I was going to be an email specialist and not do all of this other, you know, blogs and everything else, especially blogs. I just really wanted to get away from blogs. So I went through that was probably like another six month phase of actually just like making that shift.
You know, I still had some blog clients for a little while during that time when I was starting to shift all my marketing and, and cold emails or anything over to just being email. Yeah, so that, that was like a big shift. And then it's shifted even again more because I kind of realized that I'm not the type of person that can just sit and write all day.
I have like a lot of other energy. I'm actually an extrovert, which is I think a rare thing for like writers. Most writers are introverts. So I really wanted to create some more like pieces of connection into my business and things. And it was funny. It actually, I came up on a call that I was on with a coach that I really admire.
And she was talking about like, you know, sometimes there's like something in your business that if you just gave it like. And I was thinking about that because I had started having a lot of calls or a lot of, first off, it was just a lot of like DMS and, and personal messages of newer copywriters asking me like how I'd been so successful and or saying things like, I just really want to get into email marketing.
How do I, how did you do that? How do I do that? And I'm like, well, that's a really big question. But yeah yeah. So I ended up like getting on a lot of like coffee chats with them right online just hopping on for like an hour and when when I was on this call on this coach said that like, you know, if you just put 1 percent more effort towards something like what could it turn into?
And I was like, you know, I've been thinking about kind of offering coaching to newer copywriters, but I never felt ready. I never felt like I was like qualified, right. Or anything like that. And and so I was like, all right, what would my 1 percent effort be? So I just kind of like slapped up a little sales page and said, I'm offering coaching calls now.
And I just kind of like posted it on my social media and I think I said I was going to do like three calls. as like kind of a beta price. So I made it pretty cheap and immediately I had like five people try to book. And that was pretty cool to see that people wanted to pay me to coach them. I had no idea that I really like had that audience, even though I had people DMing me constantly.
I was like, would people really pay me for this? So yeah, that was a big shift for me too. When I started offering coaching, it just was like kind of a completely different energy output for me. And I found that really, really. valuable to my day to kind of have like, I have writing time, but then I also have that like coaching and connection piece of it.
And that's been really fun.
Steve: But that came about because you were talking to a coach was that like a You know a paid coach type relationship or were you in you know, just having coffee with someone.
Adri: I believe it was just like a single paid workshop type thing. I have had paid coaches. Actually that's how I came about learning about being freelance and stuff was from Eman Ismail was yeah, you know, you know, Eman. So she was one of my coaches but I think this, this was just a single workshop.
Steve: If you've had a few different coaches, what makes you choose a coach?
Adri: Oh, that's a good question. I think for me it's, it's really a lot of instinct. Because there are so many coaches out there. But I think they all have very different styles and stuff. And, you know, obviously I'll consume a lot of their content, like if they have podcasts or anything like that, and kind of feel like if I can get to know them and decide just based on, you know, whether I think I could almost like, if I feel like I could be friends with them, I mean, Eman was a little bit of also looking at her business and that she's an email specialist and stuff.
So I thought there was a lot to learn from her in terms of, yeah, wanting to kind of go in a similar direction that she has and then also just really like loving her personality and how she goes about teaching content and stuff.
Steve: So that's how you knew that you wanted to add on extra sort of coaching services. How did you know that you wanted to niche in email? Like from all the different things, it sounded like, Oh, maybe you were being turned off blogs, liking email. Like how, how was that process?
Adri: Yeah that it and it really started all the way back when I was like building my portfolio. It was just kind of, you know, I knew that these were the different types of copy I can write. And when I was doing practices and stuff, I knew that I enjoyed writing emails. They just came easier. I love the kind of informal style.
I also hate SEO. It just felt very like rigid and like it cramped my creativity to have to try to fit SEO in. And so doing blogs very much kind of fell into that for me and it just kind of kept expanding when I, when I kept doing all of these different types of copy, I just really kept loving all the email that I was doing and hating all the blogs.
Steve: Also, I'm sort of reminded of the fact that this story began with you feeling burnt out in your zookeeping job. How have you managed to avoid that this time around?
Adri: Yeah. think that is part of like the beauty of the online freelancing world and what I love so much about it is that I can just like pivot so much, and that's kind of what I've seen with, you know, with both pivoting into email and then like and that also came with, A shift as well in what types of clients I work with.
So I used to work almost exclusively with sustainable e commerce businesses. And now I actually am working with a lot of like coaches and course creators and doing it's a very different style of email and stuff. But I still have some sustainable e commerce brands as well that I work with. So I now get more of a mix and I found that I enjoy that. Some people really like doing, you know, only one style or something. And I've found that I do like to like bring in different types of clients or different types of email. Yeah. I think that that's been a big part of like avoiding any kind of burnout again for me is just bringing in new elements whenever I am feeling like if I'm, you know, getting burnt out at all.
I get really excited about like something fresh and like getting started with something new. So that's also been a part of me building my business is realizing that I actually don't love retainers because I get a lot of energy and excitement out of working with like new clients. So I have, I have one, or I guess I have two retainers that I absolutely love and adore those clients.
They are some of my first clients that I've ever had, and they've stayed with me and stuff. And but it's like, I don't want a ton of just retainers. That would burn me out.
Steve: Interesting. So it's less about perhaps how many hours you work and stuff. It's more about what you're feeling about the work.
Adri: Yeah, I think for me it really is. I mean, obviously I think anytime you're working too many hours, it's gonna burn you out. But it can very much be, like, How I'm feeling about the work and some of that, I think, too, goes into any any kind of creative work. You know, an email can take me 20 minutes to write, or it could take me 4 hours to write if I'm like having a lot of resistance to it.
Right? And so having that kind of sense of my own energy and what I'm excited to work on that can keep me from working long hours. Because like I've had projects where, yeah, I just really did not feel it and it took me so much longer to do just because I was like having to force it, you know,
Steve: Hmm. And how about taking time off? You good with that?
Adri: yes, I love taking time off that was like one of the probably the biggest benefit to starting my business was being able to set my own hours and, and I do not work full time. Like, I just, I love working less hours. I'd rather work less hours and make less money than, like, go, you know, all out and make tons and tons of money.
Not saying that you can't do both at the same time, but yeah, I definitely prioritize my, my hours being shorter working hours and more, more play, less work, if I can.
Steve: Do you work like Monday to Friday? Or do you...
Adri: if I, if I don't have anything else going on, yes, if I want to take a Friday off because I have a friend visiting, I take Friday off. So I do. I, I would say I actually, it's something that I've been meaning to start tracking it to see, like, how many hours I actually work because I do take a lot of weekdays off for various things.
I travel home. So I live a couple of states away from my family. So it's about an 8 hour drive. And I found that, yeah, if I'm gonna go and visit them, you know, you can't go for one weekend anyway, so I'll go for usually a whole week or something, but, like, Fridays and Saturdays, the driving is horrible because there's so much traffic, so I'll drive, like, on Monday or something and just take Monday off.
Steve: Great! And then what? And then you might do some work while you're there.
Adri: Yeah, I might do some work while I'm there for sure. Yeah.
Steve: Making the most of that flexibility. Because as you said, you know, animals needed you whatever the day of the week.
Adri: Yeah.
Steve: They didn't care so much about Christmas and Thanksgiving and all of that. Although actually, were you... the end of your zookeeping career was during COVID, right?
Adri: Yes. Yeah. So actually, that last. Gosh, there was at least a four month period. I think that we were, we had a very crazy schedule because basically what they realized was that if anybody on a team got sick, we all worked so closely together, then your whole team would have to be quarantined, right?
And then there would be nobody left to feed the animals. So what they did is they split us into an A team and a B team. And the idea being if one team got sick, the other team could work together. every day until they were out of quarantine. So yeah, we had we were only working either three or four days a week, like alternating for several months in the thick of COVID.
Yeah.
Steve: But with the A team and the B team, do you now have a plan in place if you get sick while you're working on projects?
Adri: That's a very good question. My main plan is that most of my clients are pretty reasonable with that kind of stuff. We try to work ahead and be on a schedule that they don't. If I were to get sick for a whole week, it wouldn't impact us because I could just catch up the next week. So that's with like my retainer clients and then one off projects and stuff.
It's happened I think once that I got sick and had to delay a project. And they were totally fine with it and really, really nice about it. So I do, you know, I have a lot of freelance copywriter friends. So I think worst case scenario, I would probably. Subcontract to one of them, get them to at least write, you know, a good portion of it and go back and edit.
And that's always kind of been the plan in the back of my mind if it came to that, but generally I try not to work like super rushed projects and things. And I like to give myself that creative space when I create a timeline for a for a project. So sometimes if I have gotten sick, it just takes up some of my creative space that I tried to allow myself.
And then I'm writing on a little bit more of a tight schedule, but it still works out.
Steve: So, your first clients were all from cold emails, pretty much, right? What's it like today?
Adri: So today is mostly repeat clients and referrals. So I have probably this whole year sent like five cold emails. And now those are reserved for when I come across a business or a client that, or potential client that I just think would be a really, really ideal client. And it's somebody that, you know, I'd be really excited to work with.
And then I am writing like a. Super, super personalized email. Oftentimes I've already been through part of their funnel because I've maybe bought a product of theirs or something like that. And so I, I'm writing like a very, very specific project proposal kind of for them of what I think I could do to help their business.
Steve: Ah,
Adri: I do get a much different conversion rate on that. I have a very high conversion rate now on my, you know, quote unquote cold emails. They're almost warm emails because a lot of times I've already kind of opened a, a door to discussing things with them via some, you know, whether it's Instagram DMs or something.
I've, I've kind of already like touched base with them and then I'll hit them in their email with something.
Steve: Amazing. And, but the rest is referral. Is that, do you deliberately seek out referrals or is that just chance?
Adri: It's been a combination of both, so it's actually the ones that have worked out have mostly been chance. It's been like they, they just thought of somebody and sent them my way. I, I do sometimes ask for referrals as well. I do think that it's important to do that, but honestly, one of the biggest ways that I keep my pipeline full now is actually just sending like a really, really simple email when basically I'm, I'm usually booked out about four weeks now.
And if I see that, like, that's starting to get shorter, or I don't have somebody coming in in a month's time or something, I'll send out a very short email to basically all of my previous clients and just say, Hey, you know, just wanted to let you know that I have some availability coming up. I know, you know, some of you have been thinking about projects or something, and then, or it's not usually I don't say some of you, because usually it's to the specific person each, but, yeah, I'll just say, you know, if you were thinking about getting on my schedule anytime soon, now would be a good time because you won't have as long of a wait time and those emails usually do very well for me getting repeat clients back.
Steve: I like it. I noticed on your website as well that you have, well, I think you have packages and prices, right? Like, have you always done that? Or is that a new thing?
Adri: I'm trying to remember if I think my first website had prices on it as well. And I often kind of do like a range or a starting at price. Because I do custom pricing, so pretty much every project I price is a little bit different based on what they need. But yeah, I did find, I'm trying to think if maybe at the very beginning I didn't have my prices up and that did make it more challenging when, people would get on a call and just kind of have no clue what my pricing was going to be.
And then I ended up having a lot of proposals get denied because it would be way outside of their price range or what they thought it was going to be. So definitely having my pricing on my website has helped a lot. And then the other thing is that I And I actually, Eman is the one who coached me through this, is getting to the point of talking about pricing on the call.
And that has been helpful as well with not having to do so many proposals that just get rejected or ghosted, is being able to, to chat about money on the call and just saying, you know, what, what is your budget for this? Because I could. A lot of times I can shift the project a little bit to fit their budget.
You know, especially with like something like an email sequence, the ideal might be an eight email sequence, but if you have a budget for three emails, that's still better than zero. It's kind of made that a lot easier to where I can say, you know, if you had the ideal, this is what I would offer propose for you.
But if this is your budget, here's how we can make it work still.
Steve: I like it. And that might be on one of your consultation calls, free consultation calls. And at that point, you know, whether it's worth putting together a proposal, which takes you time.
Adri: Yes. Yeah. Cause definitely. When I started out, I took a lot of really, really small projects and that was not ideal for my time and how you're, you know, putting together a proposal and an invoice and all, and then like. Getting, especially as a copywriter, you have to really get to know a business and their voice and everything to be able to write for them.
So that initial that first project with a client is actually like the hardest work that you're going to do with them. And so I actually also implemented a project minimum for the first project. So I have repeat clients who come back and ask for little things here and there, and I'll do those. But for a first client for a long time, I had that minimum at like 500 and now it's actually like a thousand dollar project minimum for a very first project with me.
Steve: Yes, yes, yes. Because you spend so much extra time on that first project to get it up and running.
Adri: Yes, and usually there's like more edits that first time as well, you know, I'll have like a few editing rounds, the first project, and then it's like every project after that, it seems like there's less and less editing, right?
Steve: OK, Adri, I know you've only been freelance a few years, but if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Adri: So yeah, if I could tell myself one thing, I think it would be stop trying to make the perfect decisions. I can be a bit of a perfectionist and I think you can get really frozen up on making decisions about your business. You know, like when I started, what niche I was going to be in or something like that.
And you kind of project like, Oh, well, I'm going to be stuck with this for 10 years. And that's not true in the online business world. So I think giving yourself the flexibility to just make a decision and try it. And if it was a mistake, you can fix it and you can pivot. And there's just so much freedom and flexibility to not get too caught up in like decision making and not, not get that analysis paralysis, if you will.
Steve: Nice. Adri, it's been brilliant to chat to you. Thank you so much. Go to beingfreelance. com. There are links through so that you can find Adri online and reach out to her maybe on Instagram or wherever you find her. But for now, Adri, thank you so much and all the best being freelance.
Adri: Thank you, Steve. It's been such a pleasure.