The art of business - Lettering Artist Shelly Kim
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The art of business - Freelance Lettering Artist Shelly Kim
Working in insurance and ready for a change, Shelly gave it all up after her fiancé encouraged her to find something she’d love doing.
She began to pursue a career as an artist, slowly at first alongside a back-up study programme, just in case it didn’t work out. By the time she’d finished studying, Shelly was ready to take her art full time.
Since then and with many lessons along the way, Shelly’s developed multiple income streams including custom work, in-person and online workshops, brand partnerships, a book deal and soon, an online course.
She chats to Steve about how she’s learned to put herself out there, market her business and turn followers into customers and, since the pandemic, find a better work-life balance.
The one thing Shelly would tell her younger self?
How Shelly uses social media for business
In the beginning, when she was just getting started, Shelly found support and community on social media.
“It gave me the confidence to see that people enjoyed my work and they liked what I was putting out there. I would always stare at my artwork and say, "I don't know if I could show anybody this. I don't know how I feel about it." But then on social media, I found this community of people that were so supportive of one another and just cheering each other on. That's something that I couldn't get from friends and family, mainly because they just couldn't understand what I was doing.”
Shelly grew a big online community with almost 300k followers on Instagram, a YouTube channel and an email newsletter.
“In the past I let the numbers define who I was as an artist and how successful I was and that's not something that anyone should do because you, as an artist, you're already amazing. Just keep on keeping that momentum going.”
Later, as her understanding of marketing and business grew, Shelly learned that the numbers aren’t everything.
“When it comes to numbers, the only reason it can be an important factor is because it gives you that credibility.
“When you’re posting and putting yourself out there, do it more for yourself and having people know more about your business. Because more audience and more followers don’t always equal revenue. It just means that you're going to get more attention on your page, but you also have to make sure that that translates.”
To find new audiences, Shelly branched out from Instagram.
“Instagram is a strong platform but it's not the only one. How do you get other people's attention and eyes onto what you do?
“Building your email newsletter could be a really neat way. Even offering a free item. When people subscribe to my newsletter, they have access to a resource centre with a bunch of free practice sheets and free tutorials that they can watch and that's an incentive.
“And within that email newsletter, every week I'll send out updates about what I'm doing, updates about my business, and also future product launches and collaborations that I may be working on. I just feel it's another way to show up for your audience and check in with them, but in a unique way other than Instagram.”
Finding work-life balance during the pandemic
Shelly says she’s learned to slow down over the years.
“In the beginning, I felt that I was doing too many things. That isn't a bad thing but it can mean you're stretching yourself too thin. Just to have a clear mindset, it might be helpful to have certain goals every year.”
When the pandemic hit in 2020, Shelly bucked down at first, working harder than normal. Soon she realised that, without in-person workshops to run on the weekends, she had all this free time not to work.
“Before the pandemic, I didn't know what work-life balance was. I would work every day, do my emails, do my projects, all that stuff. At night time, I would be recording tutorials and YouTube videos just because I didn't have time for it during the day. And then on the weekends, I would attend conferences because I'm like, "Oh, that's a fun event, right?" I thought that was a good work-life balance.”
A dog — the freelancer’s best friend — helps Shelly with balance too.
“Every morning, instead of rushing to my computer or checking my social media, I walk my dog Max. And then I walk him every afternoon and night time, just to get out of the house.”
Finding different revenue streams as an artist
Shelly says she believes in multiple revenue streams and that was something she became aware of early on.
“I started realising that art can be applied in so many different ways. For example, I could do art at live events. I could do art at different conferences, customisations, and I could also do craft events.”
To help her decide how to move forward, Shelly defined her mission.
“I wanted to figure out what I wanted to put out into the world. I basically decided, "You know what? My arts and crafts and my hand lettering and everything I do within my business is to promote positivity and love and that's the main reason for it."
“After, with a clear mission, I started to offer multiple categories within my business. Multiple revenue streams.”
Shelly teams up with brands to offer in-person and online workshops, she’s written a book, she’s developing an online course and she sells products, both digital and physical.
“Social media is important but you also have to take time to focus on your business and figure out the backend work as well.
“When I first started pursuing art, I thought opportunities would just come. I would just wait in my email inbox and say, "Okay, maybe I’ll get some emails." But I realised that if I want the opportunities, I need to make it happen and not just wait around for them.”
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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance Lettering Artist Shelly Kim
Transcription by humans at Rev - try them for yourself!
Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Shelly Kim: I probably never thought of myself being an artist. I used to like arts and crafts, but just dabbled into it. It was really unique that about five years ago, I discovered art just as a creative outlet only because I was so stressed out at my full-time job. I used to work full-time in insurance and I thought work was my entire life. After I would come home from work, I talked about work constantly and that's all that I really knew what to talk about. And then my fiance, being so amazing that he is, he just opened my eyes and he made me realize that work should not define my life and me talking about work all the time was just boring him out.
Shelly Kim: He was like, "Why don't you go look into other hobbies? Look into things that maybe make you happy." At that time, I was so offended, but... Because then I was telling him, "What do you mean?" Work, to me, was so important, but then just because when you talk about insurance and all the lingo that goes into it, none of it actually makes sense. It's very technical. I totally got where he was coming from. I guess with that whole transition and that perspective that he provided me, I started looking up just positive affirmations and that's when I came across hand lettering. I thought, "Oh my gosh, how beautiful and fun would it be if I could learn different typography styles and calligraphy to write my own positive messages to decorate my cubicle?"
Steve Folland: Oh my God. You taught yourself how to do it so that you could decorate around where you work?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Yep, yep.
Steve Folland: I love it.
Shelly Kim: Yeah, that was the whole main reason and that was my motivation because I was like, "My cubicle needs some inspiration and some positivity." I looked into how to get started, not realizing how hard and difficult it was going to be. I thought it was just so easy, but after I started learning myself how to do my own hand lettering designs, I did end up decorating my cubicle. My goal was reached. But during that time, I found this other joy that I needed in my life. It was something that I didn't know how to explain, but it was finally as if I would get off of work and just rush home just to do arts and crafts and do hand lettering and watercolours and just really just get lost into that world. And that's something that sparked so much joy and happiness.
Shelly Kim: There is so much to life than always stressing out about work and doing all these overtime hours and my fiance helped me realize that as well, is that if it's sparking so much joy, maybe you should have a career change. At the time, I did think he was really crazy. I was like, "No one just leaves their job just to go pursue what they want to do in life to make them happy." But sure enough, a couple months later I ended up leaving my full-time job and doing my best to pursue art full time. I was so lost, but it was that escape that I needed. I felt that if I didn't leave, I would just be stuck there.
Steve Folland: Wow. What a start. But I mean, it's one thing to think, "Oh, I should do this and maybe I could make money from that." Did you have a plan? Before you handed in your notice, did you have a plan as to how you were going to make it happen or-
Shelly Kim: I know, right? It sounds so scary. No, I mean, I was so scared because I really didn't know what I was doing. I thought I did. My plan was to open up my Etsy shop and then I wanted to do custom prints and cards, but I didn't realize that, not that it's not a good market, but on Etsy as well, there's so much traction on there that in order for people to also find your work, you should also have social media accounts to share about what you do. And that was something that I didn't realize. During the time after I left, I started to post more of my artwork on social media and just to get my work out there and use certain hashtags to help lend myself on the explore page. And during that social platforms, that's when I would share about my Etsy shop and things that I was selling at the time. It was crickets. Nothing actually happened through it.
Shelly Kim: My backup plan was, "Okay, maybe I can use this opportunity to go back to school and get my masters in college counselling." That's pretty much what I did the same year I left my full-time job just because I think I was just so afraid to tell everyone like friends and family what I was actually doing that I actually never told anyone that I left my full-time job. I was just so embarrassed on getting feedback about, "Oh my gosh, what are you doing with your life then," because I was not sure. Me going back to school, getting my master's in college counselling was my excuse to say, "Oh, this is what I'm doing next."
Shelly Kim: But here is a whole perspective that I wish I realized. A month before I started my program, that's when a lot of opportunities started coming up through social media. I got different campaign opportunities and all these things started happening. And I mean, at the time, I was just confused because I was like, "What's happening to me?" I didn't realize what could actually happen through social media and through my art itself. But maybe if I had been patient or just trusted the process things could have happened because I do feel as if, when you have that perspective about good things will come your way, it truly will. But then if you start having some negative thoughts, it can impact how you do work.
Steve Folland: Your plan, as such as it was when you first quit your job, it sounds like it was around products rather than finding clients to do work for, that you would create things and sell to consumers, I guess?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Yeah. It was just mainly products and maybe taking here and there, custom work, stuff like that. But then I guess at that point, I was telling myself, "Well, maybe I can fulfill my what ifs." I went through with the program. It was very stressful because then with the two years I did the program, I also ran Letters By Shells for two years as well and everything took off for me when I started my grad program. I felt like I was working full-time jobs in multiple areas because during the program, I had to work 8:00 to 5:00 at a school site. My class was from 5:00 to 10:00 PM. And then I had my Letters By Shells business that I was trying to run from midnight to 3:00 in the morning, every day for two years.
Shelly Kim: After I finished my program, I told myself, "You know what? I need to decide what do I want to do?" I chose my art to do full-time afterwards after my program. During the two years I was in the program, what I realized was that there were so many things that you can apply to art and that's something that I didn't realize when I first left my full-time job. I hope it's all making sense.
Steve Folland: Wow. Technically, you qualified in something that you could have then got work in?
Shelly Kim: Yeah.
Steve Folland: How did you cope with studying full-time and as part of your studying, working in an actual placement and then running your business on the side? How did you find that?
Shelly Kim: I mean, I want to say that I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. It was actually a dark time for me because I thought, "Everything in life should be taking off from me so I should be happy and really trying to live the best life." But I was actually miserable just because I felt as if I was trying to pursue my program because I worked so hard to get into the program. But then I then realized that during that whole time, my heart really fell into Letters By Shells and doing our fault
Steve Folland: In that time, did Letters By Shells, your business, did it start to take off? Did you start to think, "Actually, this is a thing?"
Shelly Kim: Totally, and it gave me that reassurance that I was looking for. Basically, if I just had waited a few more months, everything would have just fallen into place. I started realizing that art can be applied in so many different ways. For example, I could do art at live events. I could do art at different conferences, just to do customization and I could also do craft events. And those are things that I didn't understand how to apply my art form. And so, I guess during the time that I was in my program, I basically made sure that I got all the business logistics out of the way. I wanted to make sure I finalized my website. I wanted to sure I understood what type of materials I wanted to sell in terms of products and also what type of services that I wanted to offer for customizations and doing events and also, even hosting workshops because then I started loving to teach the craft as well.
Steve Folland: Was it purely putting yourself out there on social media?
Shelly Kim: With all of this, I feel that social media gave me the confidence to see that people enjoyed my work and they liked what I was putting out there because in the beginning when I was doing something, I would always stare at my artwork and say, "I don't know if I could show anybody this. I don't know how I feel about it." But then on social media, I found this community of people that just were so supportive of one another and just cheering each other on and that's something that I couldn't get from friends and family just because they just mainly couldn't understand what I was doing.
Steve Folland: I was going to say, did you eventually tell them?
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. I told them when I started my grad program. Then I also did tell them about Letters By Shells and they thought it was a phase. They were like, "Oh, that's so cute. Okay. Well, we'll see how long you stick onto it."
Steve Folland: When you finished your course and you finally went full-time into Letters By Shells, what would you say was the way that you were bringing income in? You had a mix of services and products?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. During this time, I wanted to finalize my mission and what is it that I want to put out into the world? I basically decided, "You know what? My arts and crafts and my hand lettering and everything I do within my business is to promote positivity and love and that's the main reason for it." Then after I was able to have a clear mission of what it was, then I started to offer what are multiple categories that I could offer within my business, just because I do believe in multiple revenue streams as well.
Shelly Kim: When I first started, even after I left my program, I still did custom prints and custom cards and I also did custom stickers and vinyls that clients wanted. For example, there was a local store shop. They want a custom vinyls for one of their water bottles and I would produce those for them and do all the customizations for that. And then I also started branching off into, "Okay, maybe I can dabble into more of live events. Are there any craft events or conferences happening that need customizations for their journals," just to give something extra to the people that are attending those events.
Steve Folland: And would you reach out to them cold or-
Shelly Kim: Yeah. There were some inquiries that I would get because of social media and they found my website as well, but I would go on Eventbrite and see what type of events were happening around the area because I do feel as if opportunities they'll come your way the more that you also put yourself out there and reach out as well. They're not going to land and come to you. And I guess when I first started pursuing art, before I started my program, I thought opportunities would just come. I would just wait in my inbox, in my email inbox and say, "Okay, maybe I can get some emails." But I realized that if I want the opportunities, I need to make it happen as well and not just wait around for them.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Fast forwarding to today, when you're talking about the different income streams, is it similar to that now or has it changed?
Shelly Kim: Yeah, yeah. No, totally. It definitely is the same. I still have the same mindset in terms of offering everything that you can that sparks joy and happiness for you. I guess one thing I took away from what I offer is that I don't really offer custom prints anymore or also custom cards. It's mainly if they want a certain order, then they'll have a conversation with me and if it's something that I can't fulfill, then I'll just route them over to someone else that can. I don't take as much custom work, but I started to take on custom work for different brands and also different companies.
Shelly Kim: For those opportunities, either half of it would come through social media and putting myself out there. It could be something so simple, like putting up your Instagram story, saying, "I'm looking for a custom work." If you have any opportunities... At one point, I even changed my Instagram bio to say that I'm open for collaborations and opportunities because then I feel that once people and companies can see that you have that interest, then they'll be like, "Oh, okay. Maybe she's not so busy and we'll reach out to her."
Steve Folland: Yeah. I noticed that a lot on your website actually.
Shelly Kim: Yeah. No, because what I wanted to do when it came with working with brands in the very beginning, I started to do custom work for them, like maybe they wanted my hand lettering on their product design or they wanted my hand lettering for a campaign that they were doing. But then I also realized that there are certain brands that want to promote products and if they target artists the artists can also help promote their products as well by just merely showcasing it on social media or using the products.
Steve Folland: It's obvious that social media's been important to you. What stuff did you do and do you do on Instagram because everybody starts with zero followers?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. I didn't know what other platforms are out there. Instagram was my main platform that I wanted to use. Instagram, I feel that it can be overwhelming. Over the years, I thought about, "Oh my gosh, I can only share about certain things. Only the good things or the things that happened within the business that are great." But what I realized on social media is that it is your portfolio and you get to basically put out whatever you want on there. And I feel that when you are the most authentic self, you are able to attract so many different people that can be relatable to your journey and what you do do. Meaning, on social media it's not just putting out your work, but also sharing about the process, sharing all the behind the scenes, who you are as an artist, and what you want them to know more about.
Shelly Kim: If people stopped focusing so much on how it's going to look, the face view when you land onto your Instagram page, then it would bring so much more happiness just to post what you want to post because then I've talked to multiple people that said, "Well, it doesn't fit my color palette or it doesn't follow the feed of what I'm doing. I'm trying to do a post and then a video and then a post and a video." But all these things no one is going onto your feed and saying, "Oh my goodness, it's a post, post and a video. Oh wait, it can't be that. It can't be in that order." I'm a believer just to post whatever you want to put out there to keep an idea because I know social media can be overwhelming. Maybe on every Monday and Wednesday you can post about your artwork and post about what you're doing. On every Fridays, you can post about your office or behind the scenes or maybe even a photo about you and share five, fun facts about you.
Steve Folland: You show up on there every day and you do basically what you fancy, but you have a bit of a structure to it.
Shelly Kim: I don't have a structure all the time, but that's something I need to... I'll have that in mind. If for some reason I'm just drawing a blank and I'm like, "I don't know exactly what I need to put out there. I don't know what I want to post," and having that structure could help. I use that structure mainly on my Instagram stories. One thing I do want to comment when I post about my artwork, I do also love doing the IGTVs along with the multiple post. I do believe in posting a photo and just a video of your artwork can definitely help bring engagement just because you are able to cater to two different crowds, people that want to just see the whole process or someone that just wants to see the final product photo.
Steve Folland: Do you feel there was a snowball type moment when you were building your following online and alongside that your business, where you felt momentum had picked up?
Shelly Kim: Momentum started picking up when I started being more consistent within my posts. I mean, I don't post every day, but I feel that if you are starting off, maybe even posting every day or every other day can definitely help bring that engagement along with responding back to people. For me, I started noticing I got more followers and more attention when I started posting more videos of my artwork and just sharing that entire process, letting people be a part of the process with me from start to finish.
Steve Folland: How long did it take you to feel like it was really working for you and your business because I know people say "Oh the numbers don't matter and things," but clearly there must be a point where it feels like it's having an effect for you?
Shelly Kim: When it comes to numbers, I am also one of the people that say, "Numbers are just numbers," because I do believe in that. I've done it in the past where I let the numbers define who I was as an artist and how successful I was and that's not something that anyone should do because you, as an artist, you're already amazing and just to keep on keeping that momentum going. When it comes to numbers, the only reason why it can be, or play that important factor is because it gives you that credibility. It gives you more opportunities for other people to discover your Instagram as well.
Shelly Kim: I do feel that when you are posting and putting yourself out there, doing it more for yourself and having people know more about your business because even though you are able to get more audience and more followers that doesn't always equal revenue as well. It just means that you're going to get more attention on your page, but you also have to make sure that that translates to when you share about your future products or feature things that they also have some interest in it.
Steve Folland: Yeah. How do you try to get it to translate? That's an interesting point.
Shelly Kim: Within what I do is just sharing that whole journey with them and making sure that you are always showing up because people have the opportunity to get to know who you are because then if you are only showing up every time you have a product launch or you want people to sign up for something, then you're only showing up for those reasons and you're not building that relationship with them.
Steve Folland: I noticed on your website you're asking people for an email. Lots of people do that, but how do you make it work for you?
Shelly Kim: That's a good question. When it came to email newsletters, I never understood what it was for and I was like, "Why do people do this?" I don't know how I feel about it. But what I was able to realize is that when you also think about social media, you have to think about multiple ways to get your audience. Instagram is one social platform that is a strong platform, but that's not the only one. Then how do you get other people's attention and eyes onto what you do? Building your email newsletter could be a really neat way. Even offering a free item. When people subscribe to my newsletter, they have access to a resource center with a bunch of free practice sheets and free tutorials that they can watch and that's an incentive. And within that email newsletter, every week I'll send out just updates about what I'm doing, updates about my business, and also future product launches and collaborations that I may be working on. I just feel it's another way to show up for your audience and check in with them, but in a unique way other than Instagram.
Steve Folland: No, it's nice. And you find that works for you?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. No, it definitely works just because I'm able to share a lot more on there. I feel like it's my own personal blog almost that I'm sharing on my newsletters because then on Instagram, I can only type in so much captions and I feel that within Instagram posts, it can get lost in someone's feed. Having the newsletter, it goes directly into their inbox which is really nice for them to see. I also wanted to add onto social media though because then when it came to Instagram, even though I realized the traction and it started building, especially in the beginning, I didn't notice a time where it just stopped and I was losing a lot of followers and then gaining them and losing them again.
Shelly Kim: That's when I also realized that Instagram is really neat to have, but it's not the only platform. What other platforms can I explore? Last year, I made it a goal to understand Pinterest. Everyone talks about Pinterest and talks about, "You should use it," but I had no idea how to use it. But I actually found something really unique on Pinterest. You can now post videos on there. You can now post about your products and you can directly link into your Etsy shop or your website. And I actually noticed a handful of my traffic this year came directly from Pinterest, not through Instagram like it used to be.
Steve Folland: And how much time do you have to put into that or is that mostly re reposting things you've already created?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Basically what I would do in the past on Pinterest, I kept repinning my Instagram posts, but I didn't understand how that was going to do because then what happens is that when you repost your Instagram into Pinterest directly, it just goes back to your Instagram feed and they're not really going to your website or anything. Everything I post on Instagram as a post, I also make it into a post on Pinterest. Even though I feel it's more work, thinking about Pinterest as one social platform and Instagram as another, so I also do the same thing for my Facebook page and I also now have a TikTok. I started TikTok last year, not realizing what it was going to do for my business, but it did help me bring different audiences that never found me on Instagram.
Steve Folland: How much time do you put into TikTok each week do you think?
Shelly Kim: Oh okay. Right now I'm so bad on social media, but I feel that okay, every other day, if you do post, I take that couple of hours for me just to post on Instagram. After I do it on Instagram than I'll post on my Pinterest and I'll just do it all at the same time. That way you're not stressed out about thinking, "Okay, one day I have to do this. One day I have to do that." If you are posting on one social platform, just take the time just to tweak the caption a bit and post it across all your other platforms.
Steve Folland: When you say that you're bad at social media right now, in what way?
Shelly Kim: I'm not posting. I've just been on there and scrolling but then I haven't posted anything on Pinterest or TikTok in maybe a few weeks. I just feel that social media is important, but you also have to take time to focus on your business and figure out the backend work as well because then you know what? Social media will always be there. You can show up for your audience whenever you are in the right mental head space and yeah. If you take a break, no one's going to notice.
Steve Folland: Basically, if you're not feeling it, you don't post and you're okay with that?
Shelly Kim: Yeah, yeah. Totally. Just because when you are posting on social media, it's more than just putting your work out there and posting. You also want to be in the right mindset just to be motivated to respond to people, to also comment back and just to really, fully engage with your audience. And I feel that when I'm stressed out or I just can't think about that, I don't want to just post something and then try to respond because I know that in my heart, it's just not something that I feel okay doing, I guess.
Steve Folland: Now you mentioned doing workshops.
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Steve Folland: Those are in person, but you did them online as well. But I can't tell. Did you do them online before the pandemic kicked off or did you transfer online?
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. No, no. When it came to workshops, I started teaching workshops back in 2016 in person and that was just something I did every month until this year. My in-person workshops, they're based out in California. I'm based out in California and over the years, I've traveled to multiple states to do other workshops as well. And last year, I started to do these live, online workshops where I wanted to have a workshop experience with somebody but actually doing it with them through the webcam just because I wanted to see if I could reach more people because there was times where I would always go to New York and do my workshops there. But than half the people were like, "I'm working on the weekends. I can't go." But that was the only weekend that I was there.
Shelly Kim: I wanted to see if I can accommodate just other people not within California. And then I stopped doing them and then this year, the whole pandemic happened. I offered it again earlier this year, but then I started to do online workshops through different companies. I started reaching out to companies to see if they want to host workshops in collaboration with me and then we were able to partner up together. And basically, I'm talking about my favorite products that I would use and yeah, we started doing collaboration workshops.
Steve Folland: You get paid by the brand and the brand offers it... Well, I don't know. They might charge or they might do it for free to people. That way round, instead of you selling it to your audience?
Shelly Kim: Yes. Yeah. Some of them, it works on agreement. Some of them are just free for everyone. It's just more exposure and it's just we're doing it from the goodness of our hearts because at the end of the day, I'd love to still teach and share my knowledge as much as I can. But then usually when I collaborate with the brands, I'll ask them for my pricing and I'll share them my rate and then usually it's offered as a free. We would only ask for payment if it was something like we were charging them for supplies or something.
Steve Folland: Yeah. And I see you've got an online course in the pipeline as well-
Shelly Kim: Oh, yeah. It's-
Steve Folland: ... because you're just not busy enough, Shelly. You haven't launched your course, but you're planning one I saw on your site. How are you finding that process? How's that going?
Shelly Kim: For me, it's hard just because I guess the reason why I've been having a hard time recording it because then believe it or not, I have recorded for the classes. I've recorded multiple videos, but I didn't like the audio or I didn't like something so I trashed those videos. I'm overthinking it at this point and that's something I should not do. But you know what, I realized that this year, just because I was trying to launch my online course, but I got too busy so I ended up finalizing my workbook. That's basically going to be a good way for me to have a structure outlined for the online course. I think as long as you have all your thoughts and you pour it out there, then you're able to really figure out how you want to do your online course.
Steve Folland: You've released a workbook from part of it and you can see how that goes?
Shelly Kim: Yes.
Steve Folland: Okay. Now I'm conscious that we might run out of time because you do so much. Another bit is a podcast.
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. Our podcast called Hobby to Business. I host it with my good friend, Emma Witte. We started the podcast because over the years of doing our business, I mean, we both just fell into art and we both pursued it full time. And that was something that we really shared in common but we also realize that even though Emma has a business degree, there are so many different layers to running a business that we never knew about. And during the time, we did a lot of mistakes and we struggled so much and we picked herself back up and everything that we learned, we thought it would just be awesome to share it with the world, people that are wanting to pursue their art into full-time. What are the necessary steps that have helped us and how can that help another artist that wants to start their business full-time?
Steve Folland: Nice. What would you say as you reflected on it and started to put that podcast together, what did you then realize have been your biggest challenges over the past few years?
Shelly Kim: The reason why I wanted to do art was to be creative and just be an artist. That's all that it was. I never knew that there was another side to also marketing yourself and putting yourself out there, along with answering a lot of emails. And I never knew that... I guess, I don't know what I was thinking, but there is a business side to it where you have to now also understand what your budget is and if you have the budget to order the products that you're hoping for and how is it all going to make sense? Because in the beginning, there was a few times I did product launches, but I didn't even break even. Then those were opportunities that I got to learn from just because I guess I wasn't quite sure what I was trying to do so trying to figure that out, but then also figuring out how to manage your budget and realizing that you have to pay taxes and you have to do all this stuff that I never knew about.
Steve Folland: Oh my God. Do you know what? You've just reminded me when... It's such a silly thing. But when I started selling, Being Freelance mugs, okay? It's not very different to what you do. But when I started selling them, I realized how much goes into creating a product and selling a product and the packaging and the postage and the protecting.
Shelly Kim: Totally. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Steve Folland: And then I start to realize that some of the mugs would come through and they were chipped and then I couldn't sell those and you've just lost the money. And what if you don't sell them all, then you've-
Shelly Kim: Yeah. It happens.
Steve Folland: Suddenly, I had this new found respect for anybody who sells products online, if they're actually creating the stock in advance and not just printing on demand.
Shelly Kim: Right, right. Yeah. No. No, totally, because those are things that I started to learn along the way. For example, I mean, if I wanted to start selling mugs or sweaters, what I would do, just because I've never really done them before, I would actually offer it as a pre-order and see and gauge, how many people have that interest? How many do I know that I should order? But you can also do on demand printing as well because there were times I ordered so many product and I was like, "No one likes anything. Oh my goodness." But you also have to put yourself out there in terms of asking your audience, what is it that they're looking for as well because then you can also good feedback, just see what their interests are.
Shelly Kim: But when it comes to products, even if maybe you don't have the budget to spend on anything or maybe you don't want to, you can also think about offering it as an alternative, like digital download. And that's something I started discovering back in 2017, how digital downloads could play a huge role in my business just because, for example, when I sell my lettering workbooks, oftentimes the shipping could be really high for somebody based overseas. Then if I were able to offer a digital download option, it would be way cheaper for them.
Steve Folland: Yes. Nice idea. See one day, people will be able to 3D print their own mugs and then I'll be laughing.
Shelly Kim: Oh my goodness, right? That would be amazing. No, that'd be so, so amazing.
Steve Folland: I'm just intrigued though because your podcast is Hobby to Business and it did occur to me, there was a point when you were stressed out and you said that you were thinking about work all the time and you were talking about work all the time and you wanted to get a hobby. But now of course, that hobby has become work that you probably think about and talk about all of the time.
Shelly Kim: I know, right? Yes, yes. No, it's so true.
Steve Folland: Is it different though?
Shelly Kim: It's very different, just because starting my own business, in the beginning... I wasn't sure how I was going to like it. In the beginning, I didn't know if I liked it just because there are so many different layers that you have to figure out and do trial and error and see what works within your business. But I was able to really figure out what is it that I want to do because then in the beginning, I felt that I was doing too many things, which isn't a bad thing. But it can... You're stretching yourself too thin a little bit and in order for you just to have a clear mindset, it might be helpful that maybe you have certain goals every year.
Shelly Kim: For example, this year I was hoping to launch my online course, but I came to the realization that the year's almost over. If I were to take on that extra workload, it probably can be done. I don't know how well it would be done, but then I would just be so burnt out by next year. Rearranging your to-do list and saying, "Okay, maybe this year might not be the right year. This year focus on five different things and then next year, maybe you can revisit that."
Steve Folland: Do you know that leads into something else I was going to ask, which was, how do you find managing work-life balance? It feels like you're-
Shelly Kim: Yeah, the balance. You don't have balance.
Steve Folland: Oh, okay. It sounds like you're good at protecting your time and listening to your self and your gut instincts and things though.
Shelly Kim: I never used to be that way because then I felt that I was having so much fun doing everything. I mean, there are some times that I have to work until 5:00 in the morning and I'm like, "Oh, I'm so tired." But what I figured out, especially this year during the whole pandemic, I feel before the pandemic, I didn't know what work-life balance was. I would work every day, do my emails, do my projects, all that stuff. At nighttime, then I would starting recording tutorials and YouTube videos just because I didn't have time for it during the day. And then on the weekends, I would attend conferences because I'm like, "Oh, that's a fun event, right?" I thought that was a good work-life balance. The conferences that I'm attending was supposed to be that balance.
Shelly Kim: But then I'm always just talking about my work so when the pandemic hit, I couldn't do in-person workshops anymore. In the beginning, I started to now just double my work. I was like, "Okay, now I'm going to do everything on the weekends too. I'm not going to have a break." But what I finally realized was that, you know what, on the weekends, because I'm not doing workshops. I'm not doing anything. Why don't we take trips outside of our city? A couple of weekends ago, we went to go visit Joshua Tree and we camped out there over the weekend and we didn't have any cell service. And those are things that I been wanting to do, but I didn't get to appreciate until everything happened just because we've been stuck at home and we're like, "What can we do outside that we can still maintain a safe distance from everyone else?"
Steve Folland: And of course, walk your dog.
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. We adopted Max, my dog, last year in July. And before Max, all that I did was get up in the morning, went straight to my computer and went straight to social media. That's all that I did. But after we got our dog, I realized, you know what, I want to spend time and hang out with him too. Then that helped bring more of that work-life balance that I was looking for, but I didn't know that I needed. Every morning, instead of rushing to my computer or checking my social media, I do walk my dog Max every morning and then I walk him every afternoon and nighttime, just to get out of the house.
Steve Folland: Dogs, they are a freelancers best friend it feels like.
Shelly Kim: I know.
Steve Folland: Now if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Shelly Kim: That it's not always going to be happiness and good days, that there are going to be some times that you may face some challenges and that you're going to make some mistakes, but you'll definitely learn from those mistakes and grow from the challenges just because I thought that being my own boss meant that I can make my own hours and make my... Just do what it was that I wanted to do, which is there are some levels to that being true. But then well, what I guess I thought about doing freelance full-time was, maybe there were some days that I don't want to work and I don't have to work.
Shelly Kim: But the thing is, what I realized is that if I don't want to work on Monday, for example, I have to make up for that Monday, maybe on a Saturday. And I think that being a freelance, you have to remember that you are wanting that flexibility that you've been wanting. You're not stuck down to an 8:00 to 5:00 job where you have to work Monday through Friday. But if instead you want Monday and Tuesday off and you want to work Saturdays and Sundays, if that works for you, then that's awesome.
Steve Folland: By the way, what do your friends and family who you didn't think were sure about it at the beginning, what do they make of it now?
Shelly Kim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). My dad, I felt that he was so confused what I was trying to do and he was really worried. He was like, "What are you doing?" Then telling him about my full-time business, I was so scared just because I didn't know how he was going to react to it. But then my dad also has his own clothing store as well so he understands the freelance, but I feel that he was like, "But it's not easy and that's the reason why I wanted you to get a degree so you can have just, not an easier job, but just to have a job that you can enjoy."
Shelly Kim: But then after telling him more about my business and not being so afraid, the more I was able to let him into what I was doing. Then he became so, so supportive and that's something that caught me in surprise. Now my dad, he is really supportive. He truly respects what I do and we talk about business and taxes and things that I probably never knew that I could have those conversations with him. When it comes to my family, they are so, so supportive. I do have friends and family that appreciate what I do, but they don't want to understand it. They're just like, "Oh, that's cool," but they're not trying to know every aspect behind it and that's totally okay too.
Steve Folland: Shelly, thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
Steve Folland: As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Shelly Kim: I probably never thought of myself being an artist. I used to like arts and crafts, but just dabbled into it. It was really unique that about five years ago, I discovered art just as a creative outlet only because I was so stressed out at my full-time job. I used to work full-time in insurance and I thought work was my entire life. After I would come home from work, I talked about work constantly and that's all that I really knew what to talk about. And then my fiance, being so amazing that he is, he just opened my eyes and he made me realize that work should not define my life and me talking about work all the time was just boring him out.
Shelly Kim: He was like, "Why don't you go look into other hobbies? Look into things that maybe make you happy." At that time, I was so offended, but... Because then I was telling him, "What do you mean?" Work, to me, was so important, but then just because when you talk about insurance and all the lingo that goes into it, none of it actually makes sense. It's very technical. I totally got where he was coming from. I guess with that whole transition and that perspective that he provided me, I started looking up just positive affirmations and that's when I came across hand lettering. I thought, "Oh my gosh, how beautiful and fun would it be if I could learn different typography styles and calligraphy to write my own positive messages to decorate my cubicle?"
Steve Folland: Oh my God. You taught yourself how to do it so that you could decorate around where you work?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Yep, yep.
Steve Folland: I love it.
Shelly Kim: Yeah, that was the whole main reason and that was my motivation because I was like, "My cubicle needs some inspiration and some positivity." I looked into how to get started, not realizing how hard and difficult it was going to be. I thought it was just so easy, but after I started learning myself how to do my own hand lettering designs, I did end up decorating my cubicle. My goal was reached. But during that time, I found this other joy that I needed in my life. It was something that I didn't know how to explain, but it was finally as if I would get off of work and just rush home just to do arts and crafts and do hand lettering and watercolours and just really just get lost into that world. And that's something that sparked so much joy and happiness.
Shelly Kim: There is so much to life than always stressing out about work and doing all these overtime hours and my fiance helped me realize that as well, is that if it's sparking so much joy, maybe you should have a career change. At the time, I did think he was really crazy. I was like, "No one just leaves their job just to go pursue what they want to do in life to make them happy." But sure enough, a couple months later I ended up leaving my full-time job and doing my best to pursue art full time. I was so lost, but it was that escape that I needed. I felt that if I didn't leave, I would just be stuck there.
Steve Folland: Wow. What a start. But I mean, it's one thing to think, "Oh, I should do this and maybe I could make money from that." Did you have a plan? Before you handed in your notice, did you have a plan as to how you were going to make it happen or-
Shelly Kim: I know, right? It sounds so scary. No, I mean, I was so scared because I really didn't know what I was doing. I thought I did. My plan was to open up my Etsy shop and then I wanted to do custom prints and cards, but I didn't realize that, not that it's not a good market, but on Etsy as well, there's so much traction on there that in order for people to also find your work, you should also have social media accounts to share about what you do. And that was something that I didn't realize. During the time after I left, I started to post more of my artwork on social media and just to get my work out there and use certain hashtags to help lend myself on the explore page. And during that social platforms, that's when I would share about my Etsy shop and things that I was selling at the time. It was crickets. Nothing actually happened through it.
Shelly Kim: My backup plan was, "Okay, maybe I can use this opportunity to go back to school and get my masters in college counselling." That's pretty much what I did the same year I left my full-time job just because I think I was just so afraid to tell everyone like friends and family what I was actually doing that I actually never told anyone that I left my full-time job. I was just so embarrassed on getting feedback about, "Oh my gosh, what are you doing with your life then," because I was not sure. Me going back to school, getting my master's in college counselling was my excuse to say, "Oh, this is what I'm doing next."
Shelly Kim: But here is a whole perspective that I wish I realized. A month before I started my program, that's when a lot of opportunities started coming up through social media. I got different campaign opportunities and all these things started happening. And I mean, at the time, I was just confused because I was like, "What's happening to me?" I didn't realize what could actually happen through social media and through my art itself. But maybe if I had been patient or just trusted the process things could have happened because I do feel as if, when you have that perspective about good things will come your way, it truly will. But then if you start having some negative thoughts, it can impact how you do work.
Steve Folland: Your plan, as such as it was when you first quit your job, it sounds like it was around products rather than finding clients to do work for, that you would create things and sell to consumers, I guess?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Yeah. It was just mainly products and maybe taking here and there, custom work, stuff like that. But then I guess at that point, I was telling myself, "Well, maybe I can fulfill my what ifs." I went through with the program. It was very stressful because then with the two years I did the program, I also ran Letters By Shells for two years as well and everything took off for me when I started my grad program. I felt like I was working full-time jobs in multiple areas because during the program, I had to work 8:00 to 5:00 at a school site. My class was from 5:00 to 10:00 PM. And then I had my Letters By Shells business that I was trying to run from midnight to 3:00 in the morning, every day for two years.
Shelly Kim: After I finished my program, I told myself, "You know what? I need to decide what do I want to do?" I chose my art to do full-time afterwards after my program. During the two years I was in the program, what I realized was that there were so many things that you can apply to art and that's something that I didn't realize when I first left my full-time job. I hope it's all making sense.
Steve Folland: Wow. Technically, you qualified in something that you could have then got work in?
Shelly Kim: Yeah.
Steve Folland: How did you cope with studying full-time and as part of your studying, working in an actual placement and then running your business on the side? How did you find that?
Shelly Kim: I mean, I want to say that I wouldn't recommend it to anybody. It was actually a dark time for me because I thought, "Everything in life should be taking off from me so I should be happy and really trying to live the best life." But I was actually miserable just because I felt as if I was trying to pursue my program because I worked so hard to get into the program. But then I then realized that during that whole time, my heart really fell into Letters By Shells and doing our fault
Steve Folland: In that time, did Letters By Shells, your business, did it start to take off? Did you start to think, "Actually, this is a thing?"
Shelly Kim: Totally, and it gave me that reassurance that I was looking for. Basically, if I just had waited a few more months, everything would have just fallen into place. I started realizing that art can be applied in so many different ways. For example, I could do art at live events. I could do art at different conferences, just to do customization and I could also do craft events. And those are things that I didn't understand how to apply my art form. And so, I guess during the time that I was in my program, I basically made sure that I got all the business logistics out of the way. I wanted to make sure I finalized my website. I wanted to sure I understood what type of materials I wanted to sell in terms of products and also what type of services that I wanted to offer for customizations and doing events and also, even hosting workshops because then I started loving to teach the craft as well.
Steve Folland: Was it purely putting yourself out there on social media?
Shelly Kim: With all of this, I feel that social media gave me the confidence to see that people enjoyed my work and they liked what I was putting out there because in the beginning when I was doing something, I would always stare at my artwork and say, "I don't know if I could show anybody this. I don't know how I feel about it." But then on social media, I found this community of people that just were so supportive of one another and just cheering each other on and that's something that I couldn't get from friends and family just because they just mainly couldn't understand what I was doing.
Steve Folland: I was going to say, did you eventually tell them?
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. I told them when I started my grad program. Then I also did tell them about Letters By Shells and they thought it was a phase. They were like, "Oh, that's so cute. Okay. Well, we'll see how long you stick onto it."
Steve Folland: When you finished your course and you finally went full-time into Letters By Shells, what would you say was the way that you were bringing income in? You had a mix of services and products?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. During this time, I wanted to finalize my mission and what is it that I want to put out into the world? I basically decided, "You know what? My arts and crafts and my hand lettering and everything I do within my business is to promote positivity and love and that's the main reason for it." Then after I was able to have a clear mission of what it was, then I started to offer what are multiple categories that I could offer within my business, just because I do believe in multiple revenue streams as well.
Shelly Kim: When I first started, even after I left my program, I still did custom prints and custom cards and I also did custom stickers and vinyls that clients wanted. For example, there was a local store shop. They want a custom vinyls for one of their water bottles and I would produce those for them and do all the customizations for that. And then I also started branching off into, "Okay, maybe I can dabble into more of live events. Are there any craft events or conferences happening that need customizations for their journals," just to give something extra to the people that are attending those events.
Steve Folland: And would you reach out to them cold or-
Shelly Kim: Yeah. There were some inquiries that I would get because of social media and they found my website as well, but I would go on Eventbrite and see what type of events were happening around the area because I do feel as if opportunities they'll come your way the more that you also put yourself out there and reach out as well. They're not going to land and come to you. And I guess when I first started pursuing art, before I started my program, I thought opportunities would just come. I would just wait in my inbox, in my email inbox and say, "Okay, maybe I can get some emails." But I realized that if I want the opportunities, I need to make it happen as well and not just wait around for them.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Fast forwarding to today, when you're talking about the different income streams, is it similar to that now or has it changed?
Shelly Kim: Yeah, yeah. No, totally. It definitely is the same. I still have the same mindset in terms of offering everything that you can that sparks joy and happiness for you. I guess one thing I took away from what I offer is that I don't really offer custom prints anymore or also custom cards. It's mainly if they want a certain order, then they'll have a conversation with me and if it's something that I can't fulfill, then I'll just route them over to someone else that can. I don't take as much custom work, but I started to take on custom work for different brands and also different companies.
Shelly Kim: For those opportunities, either half of it would come through social media and putting myself out there. It could be something so simple, like putting up your Instagram story, saying, "I'm looking for a custom work." If you have any opportunities... At one point, I even changed my Instagram bio to say that I'm open for collaborations and opportunities because then I feel that once people and companies can see that you have that interest, then they'll be like, "Oh, okay. Maybe she's not so busy and we'll reach out to her."
Steve Folland: Yeah. I noticed that a lot on your website actually.
Shelly Kim: Yeah. No, because what I wanted to do when it came with working with brands in the very beginning, I started to do custom work for them, like maybe they wanted my hand lettering on their product design or they wanted my hand lettering for a campaign that they were doing. But then I also realized that there are certain brands that want to promote products and if they target artists the artists can also help promote their products as well by just merely showcasing it on social media or using the products.
Steve Folland: It's obvious that social media's been important to you. What stuff did you do and do you do on Instagram because everybody starts with zero followers?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. I didn't know what other platforms are out there. Instagram was my main platform that I wanted to use. Instagram, I feel that it can be overwhelming. Over the years, I thought about, "Oh my gosh, I can only share about certain things. Only the good things or the things that happened within the business that are great." But what I realized on social media is that it is your portfolio and you get to basically put out whatever you want on there. And I feel that when you are the most authentic self, you are able to attract so many different people that can be relatable to your journey and what you do do. Meaning, on social media it's not just putting out your work, but also sharing about the process, sharing all the behind the scenes, who you are as an artist, and what you want them to know more about.
Shelly Kim: If people stopped focusing so much on how it's going to look, the face view when you land onto your Instagram page, then it would bring so much more happiness just to post what you want to post because then I've talked to multiple people that said, "Well, it doesn't fit my color palette or it doesn't follow the feed of what I'm doing. I'm trying to do a post and then a video and then a post and a video." But all these things no one is going onto your feed and saying, "Oh my goodness, it's a post, post and a video. Oh wait, it can't be that. It can't be in that order." I'm a believer just to post whatever you want to put out there to keep an idea because I know social media can be overwhelming. Maybe on every Monday and Wednesday you can post about your artwork and post about what you're doing. On every Fridays, you can post about your office or behind the scenes or maybe even a photo about you and share five, fun facts about you.
Steve Folland: You show up on there every day and you do basically what you fancy, but you have a bit of a structure to it.
Shelly Kim: I don't have a structure all the time, but that's something I need to... I'll have that in mind. If for some reason I'm just drawing a blank and I'm like, "I don't know exactly what I need to put out there. I don't know what I want to post," and having that structure could help. I use that structure mainly on my Instagram stories. One thing I do want to comment when I post about my artwork, I do also love doing the IGTVs along with the multiple post. I do believe in posting a photo and just a video of your artwork can definitely help bring engagement just because you are able to cater to two different crowds, people that want to just see the whole process or someone that just wants to see the final product photo.
Steve Folland: Do you feel there was a snowball type moment when you were building your following online and alongside that your business, where you felt momentum had picked up?
Shelly Kim: Momentum started picking up when I started being more consistent within my posts. I mean, I don't post every day, but I feel that if you are starting off, maybe even posting every day or every other day can definitely help bring that engagement along with responding back to people. For me, I started noticing I got more followers and more attention when I started posting more videos of my artwork and just sharing that entire process, letting people be a part of the process with me from start to finish.
Steve Folland: How long did it take you to feel like it was really working for you and your business because I know people say "Oh the numbers don't matter and things," but clearly there must be a point where it feels like it's having an effect for you?
Shelly Kim: When it comes to numbers, I am also one of the people that say, "Numbers are just numbers," because I do believe in that. I've done it in the past where I let the numbers define who I was as an artist and how successful I was and that's not something that anyone should do because you, as an artist, you're already amazing and just to keep on keeping that momentum going. When it comes to numbers, the only reason why it can be, or play that important factor is because it gives you that credibility. It gives you more opportunities for other people to discover your Instagram as well.
Shelly Kim: I do feel that when you are posting and putting yourself out there, doing it more for yourself and having people know more about your business because even though you are able to get more audience and more followers that doesn't always equal revenue as well. It just means that you're going to get more attention on your page, but you also have to make sure that that translates to when you share about your future products or feature things that they also have some interest in it.
Steve Folland: Yeah. How do you try to get it to translate? That's an interesting point.
Shelly Kim: Within what I do is just sharing that whole journey with them and making sure that you are always showing up because people have the opportunity to get to know who you are because then if you are only showing up every time you have a product launch or you want people to sign up for something, then you're only showing up for those reasons and you're not building that relationship with them.
Steve Folland: I noticed on your website you're asking people for an email. Lots of people do that, but how do you make it work for you?
Shelly Kim: That's a good question. When it came to email newsletters, I never understood what it was for and I was like, "Why do people do this?" I don't know how I feel about it. But what I was able to realize is that when you also think about social media, you have to think about multiple ways to get your audience. Instagram is one social platform that is a strong platform, but that's not the only one. Then how do you get other people's attention and eyes onto what you do? Building your email newsletter could be a really neat way. Even offering a free item. When people subscribe to my newsletter, they have access to a resource center with a bunch of free practice sheets and free tutorials that they can watch and that's an incentive. And within that email newsletter, every week I'll send out just updates about what I'm doing, updates about my business, and also future product launches and collaborations that I may be working on. I just feel it's another way to show up for your audience and check in with them, but in a unique way other than Instagram.
Steve Folland: No, it's nice. And you find that works for you?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. No, it definitely works just because I'm able to share a lot more on there. I feel like it's my own personal blog almost that I'm sharing on my newsletters because then on Instagram, I can only type in so much captions and I feel that within Instagram posts, it can get lost in someone's feed. Having the newsletter, it goes directly into their inbox which is really nice for them to see. I also wanted to add onto social media though because then when it came to Instagram, even though I realized the traction and it started building, especially in the beginning, I didn't notice a time where it just stopped and I was losing a lot of followers and then gaining them and losing them again.
Shelly Kim: That's when I also realized that Instagram is really neat to have, but it's not the only platform. What other platforms can I explore? Last year, I made it a goal to understand Pinterest. Everyone talks about Pinterest and talks about, "You should use it," but I had no idea how to use it. But I actually found something really unique on Pinterest. You can now post videos on there. You can now post about your products and you can directly link into your Etsy shop or your website. And I actually noticed a handful of my traffic this year came directly from Pinterest, not through Instagram like it used to be.
Steve Folland: And how much time do you have to put into that or is that mostly re reposting things you've already created?
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Basically what I would do in the past on Pinterest, I kept repinning my Instagram posts, but I didn't understand how that was going to do because then what happens is that when you repost your Instagram into Pinterest directly, it just goes back to your Instagram feed and they're not really going to your website or anything. Everything I post on Instagram as a post, I also make it into a post on Pinterest. Even though I feel it's more work, thinking about Pinterest as one social platform and Instagram as another, so I also do the same thing for my Facebook page and I also now have a TikTok. I started TikTok last year, not realizing what it was going to do for my business, but it did help me bring different audiences that never found me on Instagram.
Steve Folland: How much time do you put into TikTok each week do you think?
Shelly Kim: Oh okay. Right now I'm so bad on social media, but I feel that okay, every other day, if you do post, I take that couple of hours for me just to post on Instagram. After I do it on Instagram than I'll post on my Pinterest and I'll just do it all at the same time. That way you're not stressed out about thinking, "Okay, one day I have to do this. One day I have to do that." If you are posting on one social platform, just take the time just to tweak the caption a bit and post it across all your other platforms.
Steve Folland: When you say that you're bad at social media right now, in what way?
Shelly Kim: I'm not posting. I've just been on there and scrolling but then I haven't posted anything on Pinterest or TikTok in maybe a few weeks. I just feel that social media is important, but you also have to take time to focus on your business and figure out the backend work as well because then you know what? Social media will always be there. You can show up for your audience whenever you are in the right mental head space and yeah. If you take a break, no one's going to notice.
Steve Folland: Basically, if you're not feeling it, you don't post and you're okay with that?
Shelly Kim: Yeah, yeah. Totally. Just because when you are posting on social media, it's more than just putting your work out there and posting. You also want to be in the right mindset just to be motivated to respond to people, to also comment back and just to really, fully engage with your audience. And I feel that when I'm stressed out or I just can't think about that, I don't want to just post something and then try to respond because I know that in my heart, it's just not something that I feel okay doing, I guess.
Steve Folland: Now you mentioned doing workshops.
Shelly Kim: Yeah. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Steve Folland: Those are in person, but you did them online as well. But I can't tell. Did you do them online before the pandemic kicked off or did you transfer online?
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. No, no. When it came to workshops, I started teaching workshops back in 2016 in person and that was just something I did every month until this year. My in-person workshops, they're based out in California. I'm based out in California and over the years, I've traveled to multiple states to do other workshops as well. And last year, I started to do these live, online workshops where I wanted to have a workshop experience with somebody but actually doing it with them through the webcam just because I wanted to see if I could reach more people because there was times where I would always go to New York and do my workshops there. But than half the people were like, "I'm working on the weekends. I can't go." But that was the only weekend that I was there.
Shelly Kim: I wanted to see if I can accommodate just other people not within California. And then I stopped doing them and then this year, the whole pandemic happened. I offered it again earlier this year, but then I started to do online workshops through different companies. I started reaching out to companies to see if they want to host workshops in collaboration with me and then we were able to partner up together. And basically, I'm talking about my favorite products that I would use and yeah, we started doing collaboration workshops.
Steve Folland: You get paid by the brand and the brand offers it... Well, I don't know. They might charge or they might do it for free to people. That way round, instead of you selling it to your audience?
Shelly Kim: Yes. Yeah. Some of them, it works on agreement. Some of them are just free for everyone. It's just more exposure and it's just we're doing it from the goodness of our hearts because at the end of the day, I'd love to still teach and share my knowledge as much as I can. But then usually when I collaborate with the brands, I'll ask them for my pricing and I'll share them my rate and then usually it's offered as a free. We would only ask for payment if it was something like we were charging them for supplies or something.
Steve Folland: Yeah. And I see you've got an online course in the pipeline as well-
Shelly Kim: Oh, yeah. It's-
Steve Folland: ... because you're just not busy enough, Shelly. You haven't launched your course, but you're planning one I saw on your site. How are you finding that process? How's that going?
Shelly Kim: For me, it's hard just because I guess the reason why I've been having a hard time recording it because then believe it or not, I have recorded for the classes. I've recorded multiple videos, but I didn't like the audio or I didn't like something so I trashed those videos. I'm overthinking it at this point and that's something I should not do. But you know what, I realized that this year, just because I was trying to launch my online course, but I got too busy so I ended up finalizing my workbook. That's basically going to be a good way for me to have a structure outlined for the online course. I think as long as you have all your thoughts and you pour it out there, then you're able to really figure out how you want to do your online course.
Steve Folland: You've released a workbook from part of it and you can see how that goes?
Shelly Kim: Yes.
Steve Folland: Okay. Now I'm conscious that we might run out of time because you do so much. Another bit is a podcast.
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. Our podcast called Hobby to Business. I host it with my good friend, Emma Witte. We started the podcast because over the years of doing our business, I mean, we both just fell into art and we both pursued it full time. And that was something that we really shared in common but we also realize that even though Emma has a business degree, there are so many different layers to running a business that we never knew about. And during the time, we did a lot of mistakes and we struggled so much and we picked herself back up and everything that we learned, we thought it would just be awesome to share it with the world, people that are wanting to pursue their art into full-time. What are the necessary steps that have helped us and how can that help another artist that wants to start their business full-time?
Steve Folland: Nice. What would you say as you reflected on it and started to put that podcast together, what did you then realize have been your biggest challenges over the past few years?
Shelly Kim: The reason why I wanted to do art was to be creative and just be an artist. That's all that it was. I never knew that there was another side to also marketing yourself and putting yourself out there, along with answering a lot of emails. And I never knew that... I guess, I don't know what I was thinking, but there is a business side to it where you have to now also understand what your budget is and if you have the budget to order the products that you're hoping for and how is it all going to make sense? Because in the beginning, there was a few times I did product launches, but I didn't even break even. Then those were opportunities that I got to learn from just because I guess I wasn't quite sure what I was trying to do so trying to figure that out, but then also figuring out how to manage your budget and realizing that you have to pay taxes and you have to do all this stuff that I never knew about.
Steve Folland: Oh my God. Do you know what? You've just reminded me when... It's such a silly thing. But when I started selling, Being Freelance mugs, okay? It's not very different to what you do. But when I started selling them, I realized how much goes into creating a product and selling a product and the packaging and the postage and the protecting.
Shelly Kim: Totally. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Steve Folland: And then I start to realize that some of the mugs would come through and they were chipped and then I couldn't sell those and you've just lost the money. And what if you don't sell them all, then you've-
Shelly Kim: Yeah. It happens.
Steve Folland: Suddenly, I had this new found respect for anybody who sells products online, if they're actually creating the stock in advance and not just printing on demand.
Shelly Kim: Right, right. Yeah. No. No, totally, because those are things that I started to learn along the way. For example, I mean, if I wanted to start selling mugs or sweaters, what I would do, just because I've never really done them before, I would actually offer it as a pre-order and see and gauge, how many people have that interest? How many do I know that I should order? But you can also do on demand printing as well because there were times I ordered so many product and I was like, "No one likes anything. Oh my goodness." But you also have to put yourself out there in terms of asking your audience, what is it that they're looking for as well because then you can also good feedback, just see what their interests are.
Shelly Kim: But when it comes to products, even if maybe you don't have the budget to spend on anything or maybe you don't want to, you can also think about offering it as an alternative, like digital download. And that's something I started discovering back in 2017, how digital downloads could play a huge role in my business just because, for example, when I sell my lettering workbooks, oftentimes the shipping could be really high for somebody based overseas. Then if I were able to offer a digital download option, it would be way cheaper for them.
Steve Folland: Yes. Nice idea. See one day, people will be able to 3D print their own mugs and then I'll be laughing.
Shelly Kim: Oh my goodness, right? That would be amazing. No, that'd be so, so amazing.
Steve Folland: I'm just intrigued though because your podcast is Hobby to Business and it did occur to me, there was a point when you were stressed out and you said that you were thinking about work all the time and you were talking about work all the time and you wanted to get a hobby. But now of course, that hobby has become work that you probably think about and talk about all of the time.
Shelly Kim: I know, right? Yes, yes. No, it's so true.
Steve Folland: Is it different though?
Shelly Kim: It's very different, just because starting my own business, in the beginning... I wasn't sure how I was going to like it. In the beginning, I didn't know if I liked it just because there are so many different layers that you have to figure out and do trial and error and see what works within your business. But I was able to really figure out what is it that I want to do because then in the beginning, I felt that I was doing too many things, which isn't a bad thing. But it can... You're stretching yourself too thin a little bit and in order for you just to have a clear mindset, it might be helpful that maybe you have certain goals every year.
Shelly Kim: For example, this year I was hoping to launch my online course, but I came to the realization that the year's almost over. If I were to take on that extra workload, it probably can be done. I don't know how well it would be done, but then I would just be so burnt out by next year. Rearranging your to-do list and saying, "Okay, maybe this year might not be the right year. This year focus on five different things and then next year, maybe you can revisit that."
Steve Folland: Do you know that leads into something else I was going to ask, which was, how do you find managing work-life balance? It feels like you're-
Shelly Kim: Yeah, the balance. You don't have balance.
Steve Folland: Oh, okay. It sounds like you're good at protecting your time and listening to your self and your gut instincts and things though.
Shelly Kim: I never used to be that way because then I felt that I was having so much fun doing everything. I mean, there are some times that I have to work until 5:00 in the morning and I'm like, "Oh, I'm so tired." But what I figured out, especially this year during the whole pandemic, I feel before the pandemic, I didn't know what work-life balance was. I would work every day, do my emails, do my projects, all that stuff. At nighttime, then I would starting recording tutorials and YouTube videos just because I didn't have time for it during the day. And then on the weekends, I would attend conferences because I'm like, "Oh, that's a fun event, right?" I thought that was a good work-life balance. The conferences that I'm attending was supposed to be that balance.
Shelly Kim: But then I'm always just talking about my work so when the pandemic hit, I couldn't do in-person workshops anymore. In the beginning, I started to now just double my work. I was like, "Okay, now I'm going to do everything on the weekends too. I'm not going to have a break." But what I finally realized was that, you know what, on the weekends, because I'm not doing workshops. I'm not doing anything. Why don't we take trips outside of our city? A couple of weekends ago, we went to go visit Joshua Tree and we camped out there over the weekend and we didn't have any cell service. And those are things that I been wanting to do, but I didn't get to appreciate until everything happened just because we've been stuck at home and we're like, "What can we do outside that we can still maintain a safe distance from everyone else?"
Steve Folland: And of course, walk your dog.
Shelly Kim: Oh yeah. We adopted Max, my dog, last year in July. And before Max, all that I did was get up in the morning, went straight to my computer and went straight to social media. That's all that I did. But after we got our dog, I realized, you know what, I want to spend time and hang out with him too. Then that helped bring more of that work-life balance that I was looking for, but I didn't know that I needed. Every morning, instead of rushing to my computer or checking my social media, I do walk my dog Max every morning and then I walk him every afternoon and nighttime, just to get out of the house.
Steve Folland: Dogs, they are a freelancers best friend it feels like.
Shelly Kim: I know.
Steve Folland: Now if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Shelly Kim: That it's not always going to be happiness and good days, that there are going to be some times that you may face some challenges and that you're going to make some mistakes, but you'll definitely learn from those mistakes and grow from the challenges just because I thought that being my own boss meant that I can make my own hours and make my... Just do what it was that I wanted to do, which is there are some levels to that being true. But then well, what I guess I thought about doing freelance full-time was, maybe there were some days that I don't want to work and I don't have to work.
Shelly Kim: But the thing is, what I realized is that if I don't want to work on Monday, for example, I have to make up for that Monday, maybe on a Saturday. And I think that being a freelance, you have to remember that you are wanting that flexibility that you've been wanting. You're not stuck down to an 8:00 to 5:00 job where you have to work Monday through Friday. But if instead you want Monday and Tuesday off and you want to work Saturdays and Sundays, if that works for you, then that's awesome.
Steve Folland: By the way, what do your friends and family who you didn't think were sure about it at the beginning, what do they make of it now?
Shelly Kim: Mm-hmm (affirmative). My dad, I felt that he was so confused what I was trying to do and he was really worried. He was like, "What are you doing?" Then telling him about my full-time business, I was so scared just because I didn't know how he was going to react to it. But then my dad also has his own clothing store as well so he understands the freelance, but I feel that he was like, "But it's not easy and that's the reason why I wanted you to get a degree so you can have just, not an easier job, but just to have a job that you can enjoy."
Shelly Kim: But then after telling him more about my business and not being so afraid, the more I was able to let him into what I was doing. Then he became so, so supportive and that's something that caught me in surprise. Now my dad, he is really supportive. He truly respects what I do and we talk about business and taxes and things that I probably never knew that I could have those conversations with him. When it comes to my family, they are so, so supportive. I do have friends and family that appreciate what I do, but they don't want to understand it. They're just like, "Oh, that's cool," but they're not trying to know every aspect behind it and that's totally okay too.
Steve Folland: Shelly, thank you so much and all the best being freelance!