Freelance to be free - Art Director and Graphic Designer Lina Forsgren
Lina spent a year working at an agency before going to design college. When she did, the agency offered her a first freelance client - the United Nations, Sweden.
She picked up other freelance work while studying and soon founded a feminist communications agency with a friend, bringing together a network of freelancers for shared projects.
A year out of college, Lina went freelance full-time on her own. “I like having my freelance life and to be free,” she says, though she still manages team projects now, as and when it suits her.
She chats to Steve about the speaking gigs that make her anxious for weeks, the time she nearly hit a wall from working too much, and the community she created for women and non-binaries within the creative industry.
More from Lina ForsgRen
More from Steve Folland
Join us in the Being Freelance community
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Art Director and Graphic Designer Lina Forsgen and Steve Folland
Steve Folland: Right. Let's crack on, shall we, and chat with this week's guest. That is art director and graphic designer
Lina Forsgren. Hey Lina.
Lina Forsgren: Hey.
Steve Folland: How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance.
Lina Forsgren: Yes. I didn't start freelancing in senior high school, but I went to a media program in graphic communications in high school, and the last year we had five weeks of internship, which I did at a digital agency in Stockholm called Great Works.
Lina Forsgren: After graduating I got a job there as an art director assistant and worked there for a year. By the end of that year I felt like I didn't want to get stuck there just having high school behind me, so I applied to Beckmans College of Design in Stockholm and got in.
Lina Forsgren: Then the agency offered me to keep working with the clients as a freelancer when I quit my job there, and that was for the Swedish United Nations, so I did that while studying, so that was my first freelance job.
Steve Folland: Wow. That's a great first gig to have. How did you fit in that work around studying?
Lina Forsgren: I don't know. I think I just worked 24 hours. I didn't sleep during college. Yeah, I kept freelancing with several projects during school as well, because there was some other people in that agency that started another agency and they asked me to freelance for them as well, so I did that meanwhile.
Steve Folland: So you knew how to do the work, but this was... You know, suddenly you're asked to be a freelancer. Did you know what you were doing from a business side of things?
Lina Forsgren: Not really. Not by then. I think it was trial and error in the beginning. It has taken like... I think I've been freelancing for nine years now and it's maybe like the last three years that I started to feel comfortable like with the business side of it. I feel like you have to learn all the time when it comes to the business part of it.
Steve Folland: So to jump back into your story, you were studying and freelancing on the side. How long did that go for?
Lina Forsgren: I did it for the three years that I went to Beckmans, and during that time I started the freelance feminist communications agency with a friend, which there was a big interest in from the beginning. I think it was in 2014, and feminist was a big thing in Sweden at least. We have the Feminist Party running for the government. They didn't get in, but it was like a big thing in 2014. So we got a lot of projects to that and I got to know people through that that I'm still working with today. Then a year after college I started freelancing full time.
Steve Folland: So you started in an agency?
Lina Forsgren: Yes.
Steve Folland: Was it literally just the two of you, or were you hiring subcontractors? Like how did it work?
Lina Forsgren: In the beginning it was the two of us, but we built a network, so it was more like a network based agency of freelancers. So it maybe was 10 people, and some of them were developers and some were copywriters.
Steve Folland: How did that differ? You're not doing that anymore?
Lina Forsgren: No. We did it until until 2018 I think, so two years ago, but it kind of... I think in the beginning we saw it as something we wanted to try to do, to like have an agency in a different way, and we were quite young, both of us, in like our early 20s. So I think during the years we wanted to go in different directions and... Yeah.
Steve Folland: But what was your experience of doing that agency? Was it a positive one? What did you take away from it?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah, I think it was positive. I think that the greatest thing I'm taking from it is I got to know like amazing people that I still have contact with today and that I'm still working with, and also like the experience of managing bigger projects and teams and things like that. But it was also hard sometimes to do the project management at the same time as I was working with the design part of it.
Steve Folland: Would you do it again? I mean maybe not start an agency, or maybe you would, but in terms of hiring other people even in what you do now?
Lina Forsgren: I'm doing it sometimes now in projects. I get like a project where the client doesn't have the other disciplines like a copywriter or a developer. Maybe they come to me and say they want a website, and then I find a developer and a copywriter maybe and I'm like the project manager in that project as well, so I kind of do it still. But I don't think I would start a proper agency. I like having my freelance life and to be free.
Steve Folland: What's the benefit to you doing that now? Does it allow you to work on different projects or to make potentially more money?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah, maybe both I think. I can choose to work with whichever project I want to work on, and I think when we were several people we were more picky I think with the projects, like it was important for us then that everyone was okay with the project.
Steve Folland: And actually is that why... Because I noticed, because you call yourself Studio Lina Forsgren... Did you call yourself just Lina Forsgren at first, or did you always be Studio Lina? What was the thinking behind that?
Lina Forsgren: I think I switched during this year. I changed it several times, but I think I use it because I want maybe the bigger projects also. So even though I like to be like individual freelancer, I also like to have the bigger projects and manage projects and teams sometimes, so I think maybe it adds, I don't know, more of the studio/agency vibe to it.
Steve Folland: Yeah. No, I get that. It automatically I guess suggests that it's bigger than just you, but that you're at the heart of it.
Lina Forsgren: Yes. I think I... Like with the Studio thing I'm kind of communicating that I have maybe a network of more people that can be involved in the projects.
Steve Folland: So the first time that you were getting freelance work it came to you. You didn't even ask for it. They wanted you. How have you gone about getting clients over the years?
Lina Forsgren: Actually I didn't look for clients that much myself, so I've been very privileged in that way. It's been a lot of like work of mouth I think and recommendations from the people I've worked with. Maybe they know someone in another company or organization that they've told about me. So I think my kind of... I'm trying to find the word sometimes. I'm working a lot with, doing a good job.
Steve Folland: So you don't do... For example, you know, sometimes we hear about blogging or doing YouTube or Instagram or Twitter, all of the different things we could do to make ourselves visibile.
Lina Forsgren: I use Instagram. I use that kind of as a portfolio as well, and also I post on my website and also Facebook, so I have all of these social channels. But I don't think it has given me like as much work as by word of mouth.
Lina Forsgren: I think maybe those channels could give me... Like Instagram or Facebook, in trying to show what I want to do more of, because maybe when I'm recommended it could be more like the same kind of jobs that I'm already doing, so maybe I can show what I want to do more of in Instagram and such.
Steve Folland: I noticed on your website that you've been doing quite a lot of speaking.
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. I think it started when we had this feminist communications agency. I got to speak about norm critical graphic design or visual communication. They contacted me about that. After that I also... I talked more about my practice, but mostly about the norm critical graphic design part.
Lina Forsgren: But I am actually very, very anxious talking in front of people, but I think I forced myself to do it. But like when I get to know that I'm speaking in two months I'm anxious every day until it's time, so I don't know if it's worth it.
Steve Folland: And you've been doing teaching as well, haven't you? Or workshops and things?
Lina Forsgren: Yes. I've been like a guest teacher this last couple of months, or six months. I've been a guest teacher at my old school, Beckmans College of Design, in a course and I've done some mentoring for the graduation students, and also before that I had like an evening course in graphic design and things like that.
Steve Folland: Is that another way to bring... Like to diversify your income, so that you're not just waiting for a client job to come in?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. I think my first jobs, like when I had the evening course and I also were a teacher in digital design program, that was for the income, but also because it's fun. But it doesn't bring as much income maybe as working for clients, but I feel like it's an honor to me to do it somehow and follow the students that's going into their working life.
Steve Folland: So you're acting as a mentor, you get something out of it as well?
Lina Forsgren: Yes. Definitely. I really think that it's... I feel like blessed that I can be there and do that.
Steve Folland: What does freelance life look like for you? You said you like to be free. Do you work from home?
Lina Forsgren: I have an office that I try to go to as often as possible. I don't think I could work from home always. There's too many temptations, so I really need to have my office to go to. Yeah, maybe I go there, I don't know, at special times now with the corona situation, but I try to go there maybe every other day or so.
Lina Forsgren: I like to take my long mornings with long breakfasts and then I take the bus or the metro, where it may be half an hour, so maybe I get there at 10:00 or so.
Steve Folland: Do you do like a... Well, I was going to say a 9:00 to 5:00, but a 10:00 to 6:00?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. These days I try to not do the work when I get home, but previously I definitely... Working at the office, and then I get home and I keep working all night. But I think I almost hit the wall before. I think it's a common freelance trap. So yeah, now I'm trying to have my evenings off. I think it's important for the balance.
Steve Folland: How did it feel like when you say you were hitting a wall?
Lina Forsgren: I think I knew because it was very physical, like I felt sick in my body somehow. I didn't realize maybe until after a while that it was the stress, like you can get all symptoms from stress.
Lina Forsgren: So I think it was that that made me realize, and also that my friends told me I should work less. It's hard to realize before someone else tells you.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Obviously when you worked in that sort of agency situation, as in your own agency, were you like working physically together or were you working remotely when you did that?
Lina Forsgren: Both, but mostly remotely. Maybe we met for a startup meeting and then we, yeah, mostly worked remotely. Some of us were in other parts of Sweden.
Steve Folland: So do you have anybody who you get to have that with now, like that sort of I guess community or-
Lina Forsgren: I do. Like a few years ago, I think it was three years ago maybe, I started a Facebook group for women and non-binaries within the creative field. It was like an idea that emerged in another Facebook group, where we were a few people that was like we need to start this Facebook group for us within the creative industry, where we're able to ask for advice and talk about our work life.
Lina Forsgren: I feel like it's a community where I can do all that, like if I want to speak to someone or if I need to talk about a hard situation with a client or something like that, I can just go to this group. It has helped me a lot.
Steve Folland: Do you get to meet in person as well? Lina Forsgren: I think people have like met through this group. Some people do workshops or find people to collaborate with. But I have a lot of friends in the group too, so we already are seeing each other.
Steve Folland: You started that, did you?
Lina Forsgren: Yes, but it was like a... It wasn't just my idea.
Steve Folland: Is it the sort of community, I guess, where you feel like you need to start conversations and sort of run it, the Facebook group, or is it just something that you started but now it has a life of its own?
Lina Forsgren: Oh, it has an entire life of its own, so I don't need to do anything in the group really besides like checking if everyone are behaving, not saying mean stuff to each other, but that never happens anyway.
Lina Forsgren: I think the thing I do the most maybe as administrator is organizing the Instagram accounts. So we have like an Instagram account where a person is guest posting each week, so I'm trying to keep it alive also outside the group.
Steve Folland: That's a really good idea. I mean you mentioned that some people have collaborated, but has it... Like does work get passed around as well in there?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. I think I got a few projects through the group. It happens from time to time. People are posting projects, because I think a lot of people in the group, like if they get a client who also... Or they need someone more in the project, they want it to be like someone in the community.
Steve Folland: If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Lina Forsgren: I think it would definitely be to not work that much as I did before. I think it's okay to have a whole weekend off sometimes, and it's actually necessary, and also to take like a few weeks in the summer to not work.
Steve Folland: Nice. When you take holidays, like do you schedule them in yourself and simply tell clients I'm not around then, or this project will have to be delayed because I'm not... Like how do you communicate that I guess?
Lina Forsgren: I just did that last summer. Like that was the first time that I decided to have a proper vacation, and then I took six weeks, and that was a lot. But I think... Yeah, I put on like auto-reply on my email and I told the clients I work with a lot that I was going to have my holidays. Like maybe I told them a month before or something like that, and also maybe trying to match or getting the holiday when I know that they don't need me for a project.
Steve Folland: Ah, yes, so like picking a quieter time, where you think they might be quiet?
Lina Forsgren: Yes.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Do you have quite a lot of repeat clients then?
Lina Forsgren: Yes, I do. Maybe I have four clients that are like production companies or agencies that I work with, so they come with projects to me like on a regular basis, so that's my safety net, to have those clients.
Steve Folland: Do you always feel when they come to you though that you have to say yes, or are you able to say no?
Lina Forsgren: I think it's... Yeah, it is a bit hard to say no, because it can feel like they're relying on me a lot, so it is a bit hard. But I think I say yes most of the time. I think I could say no if I wanted to.
Steve Folland: And when you're working with agencies, does that mean like things are dictated to you such as deadlines?
Lina Forsgren: Most of the time they have already have the deadline set, or the time plan, but sometimes I'm in it like from the beginning and I let them know when I have the time to deal with them, what my time plan looks like also on my schedule.
Steve Folland: That's awesome that you managed to take so much time off.
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. But I wouldn't do it again I think. It was too long.
Steve Folland: In what way? Did you run out of things to do or were you worrying about work, like-
Lina Forsgren: I think, yeah, maybe it was because my boyfriend was away working like maybe all of those weeks, so I was mostly home alone, or of course I met friends and did things, but, yeah, I think I would plan it better, but I was so... Like decided that I would have my six weeks. Yeah, I think I would plan it better.
Steve Folland: How many would you go for, out of interest? Lina Forsgren: I think four is good. I think it's like the regular length of a vacation in Sweden.
Steve Folland: Is it?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah.
Steve Folland: Nice. That's a good idea.
Lina Forsgren: Most people take all of July. Steve Folland: Oh, I was going to say actually I remember working with a French freelancer once and asking him, you know, like we need you to do something and it was in August, and he was like, "Well, I don't work in August. Nobody works in August." So if the Swedish culture is to have July off, that must make it easier to say to clients that you're off?
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. Definitely.
Steve Folland: Come on, UK, let's all take July and August off!
Lina Forsgren: Yes.
Steve Folland: Actually, that's one thing about this whole lockdown thing at the moment, it is at least something that everybody around not just the country, but the world, is going through and therefore understanding, and it makes it easier in that respect.
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. But it's like you have this social abstinence I think.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Lina, thank you so much. Really great to chat to you, and all the best being freelance.
Lina Forsgren: Yeah. Thank you for having me.